BABBAR KHALISTANI

From sikhi point of view isn't helmet a topi??? if yes isn't it banned for sikhs??. But in cricket i feel there is no substitute for helmet, last summer i escaped literally a skull fracture when i tried marillier shot to a fast bowler which didnt come off as i wanted and ball hit my helmet straight off the bat. It was scary man. Thanx helmet!!!!

Such guys come from goods families here or make money via drugs, have good cars,money etc and most importantly know exactly what they have to do on top of that most sikh girls are naive and <banned word filter activated> and simply don't know who to associate with. For them he is just another guy regardless of his religion or background. Conversion usually is not against girls' will coz these girls hardly care abt their religion and are swept away by the tide of 'love'. It's just as if they have found a man of their dreams and leave their families and religion.

Some talk to random strangers in gigs melas parks etc as for others in colleges unis etc it starts from a small talk to friendship to exchanging numbers etc

In colleges, uni's, neighbourhoods , parks,chatrooms and not to forget these gigs, melas etc. Such people are always in hunt for their prey.

It is a horrific reality ...this has been going on here for quite a long time but our comminity has always underestimated this problem. As for figures i think 120 girls were converted alone in luton and south east in past few months.

True!!! I had no problem and read it just as normal. Amazing!!!!!!

What if this text was reproduced in the forms of leaflets in various languages and then handed over to every sikh. Would it have some effect on sikhs' mindset who have completely lost their dignity,honour and pride?

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/27521.html Chohan, who fanned militancy in Punjab, meets tame end Anju Agnihotri Chaba JALANDHAR, APRIL 4 : For a man who first hoisted the flag of Khalistan in Britain in 1971 when Punjab was still untouched by winds of separatism, it was a very tame end. Dr Jagjit Singh Chohan, 79, was getting ready for a meeting with the Hoshiarpur Senior Superintendent of Police this morning when death overtook him at his residence. His last rites will be performed on April 6 after his widow Charanjit Kaur returns from England. The couple have no children. Lionised in the heyday of militancy, much reviled after peace returned for sending thousands of Punjabi youths to a violent end, Chohan’s death comes at a time when separatist leaders of the state got a decisive drubbing in the February Assembly elections. The self-proclaimed “president of the Republic of Khalistan”, who quietly sneaked back into a peaceful Punjab in 2001, when the SAD-BJP Government was in power, spent the last few years trying to revive the separatist movement, but in vain. For the last two-three years, he had been paying more attention to a charitable hospital he set up in Tanda, where in 1977 he had raised the demand for Khalistan for the first time on Indian soil. He was hugely popular as a doctor, and a large number of patients turned up to pay their respects. Calling him a man out of sync with the times, veteran politician Umrao Singh said Dr Chohan lost his relevance because there were no takers for his divisive policies: no Sikh organisation or panthic group roped in his services, and in the end he floated his own outfit. His return to India in 2001 following the Punjab & Haryana High Court’s orders asking the Indian Government to release his passport itself continues to be shrouded in mystery. He was released after only a few hours of detention even though he faced a slew of charges, including those of sedition. Umrao Singh says this had to do with Chohan’s being a shrewd operator and explained why he used to praise Capt Amarinder Singh during press conferences. Born into an affluent family of Nagal Khunga village in Tanda in 1928, Chohan fancied himself a revolutionary and freedom fighter. He lost an arm trying to make a bomb, but that was before Independence. Post-Independence, the contested elections in 1967 as a candidate of the Republic Party of India, had a brief stint as finance minister in the coalition government of Lachhman Singh Gill, and was Deputy Speaker when Gurnam Singh was chief minister. But soon the idea of Khalistan took over him. “Chohan, the Khalistan ideologue, first shot into international limelight when pictures of him receiving the keys of Nankana Sahib gurdwara from Pakistan’s Gen Yahya Khan were flashed on the PTV in 1971,” recalls Kanwarpal Singh, general secretary of Dal Khalsa, a right wing party. He returned to Punjab in 1978 and hoisted the flag of Khalistan at Anandpur Sahib before returning to England in 1980 to anoint himself as president of “Republic of Khalistan, Government-in-Exile.” Safe in the UK, he directed all his energies into embarrassing the Indian Government by setting up consulates in countries like France and issuing Khalistani currency. He also played the godfather to militants like Gurbachan Singh Manochahal and Wassan Singh Zaffarwal, who were operating on the Indian soil. Today, Zaffarwal was among the first to reach his house on hearing about his death. Also present were members of Dal Khalsa, a right wing party, which was one of the few to ally with him when he floated his Khalsa Raj Party after landing here in 2001, the avowed aim of which was to “achieve Khalistan, albeit in a democratic manner.” He once told this correspondent, “I don’t believe in violence any more.” However, even last year he made a speech and hoisted a Khalistan flag, for which he was charged with sedition and spent two months in jail. Calling him “a failed man and a failed politician with a failed mission”, Dr Jagroop Singh Sekhon, head of the Department of Political Science, Guru Nanak Dev University, Amritsar, said Chohan’s idea of Khalistan, too, was borrowed. “He was not an original ideologue of Khalistan, the word was first coined in 1945.” http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/20070405/main5.htm Chohan dead Our Correspondent Hoshiarpur, April 4 Khalistan ideologue Dr Jagjit Singh Chohan died at his residence at Tanda, 32 km from here, today following a massive heart attack. He was 80. He is survived by his wife, Charanjit Kaur. According to Jorawar Singh Chohan, a close relative of the deceased, Dr Chohan had been looking after his clinic at Tanda and his ancestral house at his native village Nangal Khunga. His wife Charanjit Kaur, who is with her nephew Rupinder Singh in the UK, has been informed. The cremation will take place on her return. The body of Dr Chohan has been kept in a private mortuary at Jaja village, adjoining Tanda town. Dr Jagjit Singh Chohan, a qualified MBBS doctor, was running a private indoor clinic before entering politics. He was first elected to the Punjab Vidhan Sabha from Tanda as a candidate of the Republican Party of India in 1967. He later became Deputy Speaker when the Akali Dal-led coalition government assumed office in the state. Later, when Lachman Singh Gill became Chief Minister, Dr Chohan was made Finance Minister. He is credited with introducing state lotteries during his brief tenure as Finance Minister. In 1969, he lost the Assembly election and two years later moved to the UK. He returned in 1977 and at a public rally in Tanda, raised the demand for "Khalistan". Before he flew back to England in 1980, he had generated much heat by demanding "Khalistan". Since then, he had been in England. There was a case against him for trying to set up a transmitter in the Golden Temple complex. In England, he spearheaded the Khalistani propaganda after becoming chairman of the Council of Khalistan. "There were cases of sedition against him. These were registered when he pronounced Khalistan, issued its currency and passports and regularly published literature and brochures in support of his kingdom in exile. But in all these cases, he had been either acquitted or the cases had been closed as untraced," sources in the police department said. They said there was no case of violence, murder, attempt to murder, sabotage, rioting or bombing against him ever. On June 26, 2001, he again returned to India and delivered inflammatory speeches at Amritsar with other like-minded SAD leaders. Cases of waging war against India, sedition, and making false statements had been registered and he was arrested by the Kotwali police station, Amritsar. In a similar case, he was also arrested by the Tanda police on June 14, 2005, but was later released on bail. He also formed the Khalsa Raj Party to enter the political arena once again. Harcharanjit Singh Dhami, a senior leader of the Dal Khalsa, while paying rich tributes to Dr Jagjit Singh Chohan said the Sikh Panth had lost a great visionary who had shown the right path to the Sikh masses.

Extremely offensive and outrageous. How can you guys stop india on laughin at you when you enjoy it yourself on your religious discussion forums.Shame on ya guys. BTW what are the mods doing?

His branches even operate in U.K. So that sikhs in southall can have access. Can't believe. http://www.divyajyoti.org/aboutmission/centers_3.htm#e

Where does it say its a picture of Guru Nanak Dev Ji ? It was your own interpretation becuase that what you have seen all your life. Pakandi Babbe ne kiha ki it could have been a gurughar or Sri Guru Granth Sahib, Why not a picture of a Gursikh? All i see is a humble god fearing man depicted in the picture. Instead of blaming the person who made an effort we should blame ourselves for thinking it to be a picture of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. Though it doesn't say anywhere tht it's the pic of guru nanak patshah but at the same time it doesn't even say that it's a humble god fearing man the reason why i said it to be guru nanak sahib coz that's the face which has been used to depict him in human form, and also the banis written in the pic were revealed to guru nanak sahib......if you take this pic around and ask who's this the obvious answer gonna be guru nanak patshah coz that's the face which has been used to symbolise him. Aren't there faces and pics around to depict various gurus just like the one wiv kalgi always used for Guru gobind singh ji? Anyway your views were good just for the sake of refuting my post buh honestly we need to be more honest and check our mistakes and drift away frm the photo culture which has led sikhs to praying in front of photos and has nearly labelled them as idol worshippers which they are not.

No doubt the picture is beautiful and a lot of effort has been put into it which deserves the applause but "pakhandi baba's" point is also valid. Gurbani is truth but not that picture of the human. Did Guru Nanak Patshah look like that? If not we should not make false drawings to depict him.

Everyone has his/her own opinion just as brother who started this topic has. To get correct information about panjab i think it would have been better if the brother discussed the matter with some elderly or bajurg who have seen the whole transformation wiv their own eyes over several past decades. The reality is that sikhi is on massive decline in punjab in both ways: quality as well as quantity. There are four districts where sikhs have come in minority (gurdaspur, nawanshehar, jalandhar, hoshiarpur) and as well as capital chandigarh which is taken away from punjab and made as union territory. Quality wise none would argue that chardi kala sikhs like those in past are not seen anywhere, youth (like me) preffer patitpuna,are proud to be jatt or punjabi rather than sikh, the voice for khalistan is nearly 'dead', we are satisfied with "hindu marriage registration certificates" , dera culture is flourishing, amritdharis are rare, hindutva is taking over sikhi in punjab, drugs and bhaiiyas are flodded in panjab to maximise the damage, agriculturist (jatts) are crying coz water level is falling and panjab is set to be a desert. The list is endless I hate when sikhs rave abt being indians we've nothing in common ideological or even physical.We look very different than average indians and our authentic culture is far different than that of indians. We gotto shun this indian spirit and at least call ourself just sikhs if we want to dream abt khalistan just as indian kashmiris call themselves as kashmiris rather than indian coz they are serious abt their freedom unlike us. I was born in punjab spent my first 21 yrs there before coming to u.k 2 yrs back. I lived my like as another panjabi youngster, proud to be jatt scribed on my car and just paying occasional visits to gurdwara. I used to call myself indian as well but after knowing that so much has happened with 'sikhi' i feel ashamed to call myself an indian, i just can't be a citizen of a country which is one of the most intolerent in the world, cripples minorities, teach false history to destroy other religions, degrades my religion and gurus, ruled by fascists. And yes i don't accept hindutva as the ideology. Sikhi is our ideology. As for development thumbs up to indians they are developing fast infact their economy has a massive growth, only second to china and is projected to grow at 9% next year and whole world is raving abt india, the economy, the culture, bollywood. I know i am on the losing side and we have been timely defeated but that doesn't mean i should give up to materialism and forget the past. Money factor and the glitter doesn't bring me any closer to india coz i don't want to lose my morality for materialism.

Very true ...the lie big time........ if one converts they multiply it by 50 ...these are their tactics....they over-hype their positives and completey ignore or undermine their negatives like flaws in quran, honour killings, people leaving islam, their girls going out wiv non muslims e.t.c .And they like to spread the false news via messeges, flooding e mails, forums or via word of mouth...these are just their tactics to discourage other people and gain a mental edge over others. Most of the time their claims are often over-hyped,biased and sometimes false and baseless. We need to be careful and not take their information for guaranteed.

The most comic statement in the whole report was "Younger Hindus are feeling more isolated. If they continue to feel threatened and unprotected they may be forced to turn towards extremism.” They couldn't turn towards extremism when their faith was in danger, they were being forcibly converted, their girls were being raped or taken away by mughals. I doubt they will do anything now. Or maybe extremism in hindu terminology means organising a peaceful march or sitting on a hunger strike. No AHIMSA (violence) I can't understand why sikhs sometimes make such weak statements like siding with hindus and sometimes with muslims or talking things like we have common enemy e.t.c. We are distinct and we will always be. We have our troubles with some communities and we'll sort them out on our own, we don't need any allies. To tackle hindus we don't need to side with muslims and vice versa. For waheguru's sake stop making such statements which are nothing less than insults on sikhi and project us as weak or impotent. And we will never be able to ascertain who our biggest enemy is : hindus* or muslims*? If muslims are bad for us that doesn't make hindus good automatically.Both have inflicted tremendous damage and both strike in their own ways. If musims fight head on hindus do the back stabbing. Look how they cleverly mentioned our name in the conference to gain maximum sympathy whereas sikhs have suffered and are sill suffering tremendous race hate crime. *by hindus or muslims i don't mean by all the religion but the bad ones or who are genuine enemies.

Yeah...i fully agree with above post we should reach there and stand up to make sure there is no degradation of sikhi. I hope you guys remember what happened in wembley when a few sikhs were converted in front of the audience and our gurus were insulted by clapping spectators. At least our presence is required to make sure nothing of this sort happens again.

Muslim deny loads of stuff about science which their religion contradicts, like creation of earth, reincarnation e.t.c but at the same time use science for propoganda of their religion by merely finding a few verses and matching them with science.

Michael jackson's a child molester,a paedophile, now he's fearing for his after-life so he's tryin to ensure his place in heaven so that he gets some virgins, young boys and another ranch there. Good luck dude!

i guess we have diverted a long way frm original topic.......you can can pm each other and prove each other right or wrong....so no more off the topic posts

Lets not waste any more time those who want to join hindus can contact them those who want to do something of their own let's act.

I agree fully with this. And plz don't mention hindus e.t.c here. Are we not capable enough to defend ourselves?? I feel ashamed reading sikhs asking hindus co-operation which aint sikh like. We should defend ourselves and not expect others' help.What help can those do who can't even help themselves? And yes if hindus approach us we cann definitely consider helpin em but we can't beg for help. So guys stop talking such rubbish...let's do it on our own. So stupid thinking no wonder i hate organised religion at times! The biggest "benefit" of coalition wiv hindus is weakening ourselves . Singh don't stoop so low that you have to ask others for help. You are meant to help others not to ask others for help so do something of your own.

I agree fully with this. And plz don't mention hindus e.t.c here. Are we not capable enough to defend ourselves?? I feel ashamed reading sikhs asking hindus co-operation which aint sikh like. We should defend ourselves and not expect others' help.What help can those do who can't even help themselves? And yes if hindus approach us we cann definitely consider helpin em but we can't beg for help. So guys stop talking such rubbish...let's do it on our own. So stupid thinking no wonder i hate organised religion at times! The biggest "benefit" of coalition wiv hindus is weakening ourselves . Singh don't stoop so low that you have to ask others for help. You are meant to help others not to ask others for help so do something of your own.

I agree fully with this. And plz don't mention hindus e.t.c here. Are we not capable enough to defend ourselves?? I feel ashamed reading sikhs asking hindus co-operation which aint sikh like. We should defend ourselves and not expect others' help.What help can those do who can't even help themselves? And yes if hindus approach us we cann definitely consider helpin em but we can't beg for help. So guys stop talking such rubbish...let's do it on our own.

Hello Cartman, Are you saying the Guru performed a Miracle by decapitating the five beloved? If so was this reflective of The Gurus way? What do you think? Did GOD not make the Kaaba rotate? Did GOD not perform the Panja Sahib miracle ? Did GOD not perform the miracle of the blood and milk from roti? Did GOD not perform the miracle of Guru Nanak & the Grazing Buffaloes? And many many more, all done via the Gurus, do you doubt this?? If death is liberation why would the Guru bring anyone back from it? Death after a truthful life is a liberation not the death every other person today dies or kind of death suicide bombers die aspiring for jannat. And yes guru has the power of bringing dead back to life if he wants so.....the five beloved ones did not die a natural death but guru sahib rewarded them for their faithfulness and gave them a huge status that of five beloved ones and he himself bowed in front of them to seek amrit.

Wud be nice if all turban wearin "sikhs" are turned away frm bars nd pubs