proactive

Legal Singh Your theory falls flat because areas such as Jalandhar and Hoshiarpur which were a part of the Lahore state had more Hindus Jats than Sikh Jats. This was also the case with Sialkot and Gujranwala districs. If your theory was correct then in Gujranwala most of the Hindu Jats would have been Sikhs because Gujranwala had been the base of the forefathers of Maharaja Ranjit Singh and there would have been a great urge among the HIndu Jats to become Sikh being from the same area as the Maharaja. The Gujranwala district also witnessed a great deal of turmoil because of the wars between the forefathers of Maharaja Ranjit Singh and the Muslim tribes, Exactly the type of situation which if your analysis was correct would have led to a large number of Hindu Jats becoming Sikhs. You theory also falls flat because the three districts of Punjab which were under British control before the annexation of Punjab, Ferozpur, Ludhiana and Ambala, only Ambala district had more Hindu Jats than Sikh Jats. This was because half the district was in the area now known as Haryana. Your theory also doesn't hold true because Ferozpur had been under a Misldar until it was taken over by the British in 1835. It was under the protection of the British from 1809 as same as the Sikh states in Malwa. Patiala, Faridkot and Nabha states which were under the protection of the British since 1809 also had more Sikh Jats than Hindu Jats. In the case Patiala and Nabha this is all the more remarkable as they included large parts of the region now known as Haryana.

I think you might have got your information from that jatt website which makes all sorts of claims without presenting any evidence. There is no doubt that Punjab having been the gateway to India, it saw more than its fair share of invasions and migrations. But these migrations would have been from Central Asia and not from Syria and Palestine.

For Ludhiana district in 1881, the first time a reliable census was done in Punjab, the HIndu Jats were only slightly less than the Sikh Jats, 95,000 compared to 102,000. But this does not give a true picture. In the western part of Ludhiana like the Jagraon tehsil, the Jats were mainly Sikhs but in the eastern part (Samrala tehsil) the Jats were mainly Hindus. The reason given is that Jagraon was a part of the old Jangal desh where the Sikhs would seek shelter from the Muslim persecution. Samrala was close to Sirhind which was the seat of Mughal power between Lahore and Delhi. Also although the British classed all the non-Muslim and non-Sikhs Jats as Hindus, they were in fact Sultanis worshipping Sakhi Sarwar. As education spread through the Singh Sabha movement in the eastern part of Ludhiana district, The Sultanis started to become Sikhs. By 1931 when the last census which enumerated caste was taken, the Sikh Jats were 211,000 and he Hindu (Sultanis) Jats were 3,500. Hoshiarpur district might have had the same situation but the Hindu Jats there would be more influenced by the Devi worship culture of the hills rather than Sakhi Sarwar worship. The Sikh Jats were mainly in the low lying areas whereas the Hindu Jats were in the hilly areas. In comparison in 1881 the Sikhs Jats were 29,000 compared to 86,000 Hindu Jats. By 1931 the Sikh Jats had gone up to 86,000 and the Hindu Jats had gone down to 41,000.

Did someone from the forum go up to them and insult their religion? If we are so sensitive about what someone claims to have done for us. There being no verification for their story, then we should really be thinking about changing some of the verse of Bachittar Natak. I mean is it not highly insulting to these good Muslims' religion to say that Mohammed subverted his own mission for which God sent him and created his own sect rather than bring people to the worship of God? How about the insult of referring to Allah as endowing each being with his light so how can anyone say who is good or bad. The Quran clearly tells us that non-believers are like animals so are we not insulting Islam by dismissing the Quran's claims? How about when the same verse refers to Allah as permeating in all his creation, something that is heresy in Islam? I suggest we get a committee of LegalSingh, Neo, Thunderousdominator together so they can start to process of editing, so that Muslims don't feel insulted.

The support has more to do with the fact of how the girl has acted throughout the trial. She has been supporting him all the way and has said that she will stand by him and wait for him to get out of prison. He has said that he will marry her when he is released. All this tugs at the heartstrings of the British public who consider their story as more of a Romeo and Juliet story. This story is miles away from drug dealing Abdul with a wife and 10 kids, raping and then pimping a vunerable child firstly to his uncle and cousins and then to other members of the religion of 'peace'

Not surprising that you are supporting incest given that your religion allows you to marry your female cousins! I can now understand your strange behaviour given that you are probably the product of a long line of incestuous marriages!

The Musalmaan still doesn't get it. We CHOOSE not to dissect his childish propaganda post but dissect the reason for someone claiming to be an educated person living in the west rejoicing at how great the religion created by a slave owning, murdering, anti-semitic paedophile is,

Gurpreet spews his bukwas on The Straight newspaper and he is a presenter on India Radio. He claims to be against violence and extremism, yet he works for the guy who shot someone in a Gurdwara car park a few years ago! He is what the blacks would class as a house n*gger if he was from their community. His most famous article was this-; He sees nothing wrong with atheist communists trying to take over a Gurdwara! http://www.straight.com/news/gurpreet-singh-senior-leftist-bibi-veeran-calls-unity-against-sikh-fundamentalists

I would think that it is closer to 10% rather than 40%. In Burma the Muslims are close to 10% and they have already managed to p*ss off the Buddhists and now you have close to civil war there. In places like Sweden the Muslims are less than 10% and they have already created no go areas in some of the Swedish cities. They are 5% in the UK and already the non-Muslims are getting tired of their antics.

I would be surprised if this was written by any American senior military officer. I reads like it's written by a Muslim who's been dreaming of world domination while claiming dole in the west or driving an illegal mini-cab! It looks like a Pakistani version of one of those spam emails like '50% of NASA employees are Indian' or such like. The West is on a collision course with Islam. The Muslim mentality is to throw their weight around and this they will try in the next few years in the western countries. Either these western countries with their liberal leaderships will bend over backwards for Islam and these countries will become just like the Islamic hellholes in Asia and Africa or they will fight back. If they fight back then the Muslims will lose, no doubt about that. The West has the technology to wipe out Islam off the face of the Earth. What is lacking is the will and knowing the Muslim mentality, they will start getting overbearing and that will be the end of them.

A Jamabandi is pretty easy to read, It is just a list columnwise with the khata and khewat no of the land, name of the owner/s, who is farming the land at the time of the jamabandi, area of the land by kanal and marlas, etc You can make a start by first knowing if there is a particular bit of land that has always been owned by your family. Then do a search on your village using this website where you can look up the khewat and khata numbers of that bit of land. You can do this by going to your village using the drop down menu and type in your father's name or grandfather's name whoever owns the land now. You will need the owner of that land and whose son he is. i.e Balwant Singh son of Khem Singh etc. http://plrs.org.in/ Click on FARD choose your district, tehsil and village click on jamabandi click on 'malik de naam matabak' or kewat or khata no. type in the name of the owner in english and it will be converted to Gurmukhi script. With this khewat and khata number you can go to the patwari's office called a Patwar Bhawan for your village and then ask the patwari to bring you all the jamabandis for that piece of land to when the records were first kept. It will probably go back to the 1840s. You might need to go to the land records office in the district records office for the older jamabandis

I agree that Tommy Robinson has become incredibly sharp and media savvy within the last few years. His Asian network interview was the best yet and he made the Muslims that the BBC had set up to counter him look like fools. That women who called him racist and yet couldn't give any example of his racism was a good example of the idi.ots that are against the EDL. The paper tigers of Turban Campaign and Sikhs against the EDL use the media demonisation to get Gurdwaras and Sikh organisations to support them, If the Gurdwaras really knew what these pyjamas in paghs are really all about then they would run a mile.

Interesting that this comes after the Indian propaganda machine went into action against the billboard about 1984 http://bc.ctvnews.ca/critics-fear-billboard-portraying-sikh-massacre-could-incite-violence-1.1337040 Here is a report on the attack at the mandir. The baseball has Brar and a Khanda on it. Maybe the attack is a way for the Indians to bring pressure on the council to bring down the billboard. http://bc.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=952867

This would just show when your ancestors became Amritdhari Sikhs because the ones prior to 1699 would have had Hindu or Muslim names. Jamabandis are an interesting way of doing ancestry research.

We need to stop dancing to the Hindu tune. We should be proud that the Sikhs of 1857 understood the situation they found themselves. They chose to back the British rather than a hotch potch of mutineers and rulers who wanted to retain their small kingdoms by backing the effeminate Mughal emperor of Delhi. Why should we have to defend what the Sikhs of 1857 did? Sikhs followed an independent path and backed the side which was best for them at the time. It wasn't just the former Khalsa army soldiers that attacked the mutineers who had mutinied in the Punjab but the common people also chased and killed a number of them. The mutineers were seen as the foreigners in Punjab. There was an incident in Gurdaspur district in1857 where the mutineers were massacred by the British and local levies. The survivors were hunted down by the common people. The Congress party a few years were going to set up a memorial for the mutineers! I feel proud of the Sikhs who in 1857 saw what the situation was and attacked and killed the mutineers. Do not fall into the trap of the Indians who want us to feel ashamed because they want the mutineers to be referred to as freedom fighters and our ancestors as mercenaries.

The biggest reason why Sikhs in 1849 did not resort to a mass resistance or guerrilla war is because the Sikhs were just 5% of the population of Punjab. The other 95% were equally split between Muslims and Hindus. Unless one of these communities or both of these communities were to actively support the Sikhs, a guerrilla war could not have been possible. The Muslims due to their religion would never support the re-establishment of non-Muslim rule over them. The Hindus, although they had been the greatest gainers from Sikh rule would not support it's re-establishment because they had seen British rule in the rest of India as being benign to their community, The leaders of these communities had been guaranteed their lands by the British, the Hindus had gained in having a Hindu now as a ruler of Kashmir thanks to the British. There is no doubt that had the Sikhs been more than 50% of the population of Punjab then the Punjab would never have submitted to the British rule. The posters who say that most of the TRUE Khalsa had been killed off are insulting the Sikhs who survived the Anglo-Sikh wars. There were Sardars who could have carried on fighting but to what end? For the Khalsa to suffer more from the hands of the British as well as from their Hindu and Muslim jholichuks? The leading Sardars as well as the common Sikh soldiers of the Khalsa army who survived were the first to join the British in fighting the mutineers. Sardar Jawahir Singh Nalwa, the son of Hari Singh was one of many who sided with the British, He was hardly a patit, he was aware of the circumstances that the Sikhs found themselves in and sided with the side which he felt would treat the Sikhs the best. A successful mutiny would not have meant a return of Khalsa rule in Punjab but a return of the Mughal rule.

The funny thing is that the media try and concentrate on the Sikhs linked to the EDL when there are probably more Hindus and Jews who are members of the EDL than there are Sikhs. The EDL have HIndu and Jewish divisions but do not have a Sikh division. There is a Sikhs against the EDL organisation but there is not Jews or Hindus against the EDL organisation, I don't think you can call the EDL right wing, this is just another slur that those who oppose them have painted them with because it will stop non-Muslims from ethnic background from supporting them. The reason that the EDL has such respect for the Sikhs is that the Sikhs have opposed for the last 25 years the same Pakistani grooming that the EDL now oppose. The other communities do not have the same history. Also the Sikhs have shown themselves more than willing to use direct action to oppose anything that they believe is against their community. This ranges from things such as the Behzti incident to the Luton case last year and the Leicester Moghal Durbar attack. The EDL cannot take the same kind of direct action as they would immediate lose any support they have among the public, so in a sense they admire the Sikhs for being able to do such things and yet still be able to retain their reputation for being a law abiding community. All those scare mongers with their belief that Sikhs will be next after the Muslims are dealt with do not understand anything of the EDL. It started off as a protest against those Muslims who were protesting against the army parade in Luton in 2009. It quickly took off but due to the intense demonisation of it by the media and the fact that prior to the Woolwich murder, all Muslim terrorist plots had been stopped in their tracks. So the general public although they were aware that some Muslims were plotting to attack them could remain oblivious because the security services were successful in stopping these attack. With Woolwich this has changed. The public now fear that they may be attacked at anytime so that is why the EDL facebook page went from 20k likes to over 140k likes in a few weeks. Whereas the likes on the UAF and Sikhs against the EDL have remained static. They might have actually gone down if there was a way for people to retract their 'likes' from these pages!

I think it's more a Pakistani vs Sikh issue. The Pakistanis are twice the number of Sikhs in the UK and I think the Sikhs outnumber the Pakistanis in Canada. You will have a wait a few more years before enough Pakistanis migrate to Canada and once they have the numbers then you too will find what kind of people they are, Sikhs and Pakistanis had good relations when the Pakistanis were in their own areas and Sikhs in their own area. But when Pakistani turn up in an area they will open up Halal shops and chicken joints. They will then turn one part of town into their own and then encroach on the rest of the town. In Southall it is only because of apnay freshies coming over on student visas and overstayers that Southall has stayed a Sikh town otherwise the Pakistanis were about to swamp the place.

No Sikh should support the BNP as they just like the old National Front racist party. With EDL, their leader appears to be genuine but there is no doubt that a tiny minority of their members are racist. But as Tommy said he does his best to root them out. It is a vicious circle, because the left wing liberal id.iots like UAF and Turban Campaign and Sikhs against EDL keep painting the EDL as racist then they scare away many of the non-whites who might join them or support them, So due to this the small racist element gets a stronger voice than they would otherwise have,

For each country where Sikhs reside there needs to be a national Sikh organisation with a national Sikh strategy and agenda. With Pakistan, the agenda should be proper upkeep and maryada of the Gurdwaras and expansion of Sikh numbers through the transformation of Sehajdhari Sikhs of Sindh into Keshdhari Sikhs and eventually into Amritdhari Sikhs. I remember reading in the mid-80s that General Zia had allowed the Sehajdharis to be classed as Sikhs rather than as Hindus in the Census. Unfortunately there was no census until 1998 and the order appears to have been forgotten because even though Sikhs were counted in 1981 Census, no Sikh numbers are available for 1998 Census. The Gurdwaras have billions of rupees worth of property attached to them which had been encroached upon or the evacuee board gives out on rent for peanuts. Sikhs in Pakistan need to get organised and make sure that like the Waqf board does in India for Muslim properties, that the evacuee board uses the money from the Gurdwaras towards the social needs of the Sikhs of Pakistan. Hopefully with Sardar Ramesh Singh becoming a member of the national assembly and a Sikh becoming a member of the KP assembly a step can be taken to organise the Sikhs.

Here the interviewer has a confrontational approach to Tommy Robinson but licks the Muslim's backside directly afterwards.

What world are you living in? It looks like the future for the Middle East is a civil war between the Sunnis and Shias. I doubt the Taliban will stay out of it, So the future will not be as rosy as you think it will be.

I agree with you but the Muslims always have a answer for that. They claim that the countries such as Saudi Arabia that do not allow non-Muslim places of worship are dictatorships and therefore you cannot compare the two. But you can see what happens to religious minorities when countries like Egypt go from dictatorship to democracy. Christian Copts now have a worst time than they did under Mubarak. . The thing to do is to tell the reception that you think Tommy's a racist and you want to pull him op on his racism. Then when they put you through to the studio then say what you really think! One man organisations like Turban Campaign and Sikhs against the EDL are a part of the problem. Why would Muslim communities want to confront their extremists and their paedophiles when they have muppets like these to defend them no matter what they do.

All of lot of people criticise the EDL but Tommy Robinson held his own on the radio show last week.

Unfortunately Sikhi has been a victim of the liberalisation process that began before 1947 but became the norm after 1947. The Sikh writers, especially those who wrote in English have converted Sikhism into a secular religion just to please the so-called secular leaders of the country. The above has led to such ridiculous statements which many Sikhs will still make-; 1. Sikhi is not a missionary religion and does not seek converts. It wants Muslims to be good Muslims and Hindus to be good Hindus. 2. Guru Granth Sahib contains the writings of non-Sikhs from both Hindu and Muslim religions. 3. Guru Nanak had a constant companion, Mardana who was a Muslim. 4. The foundation stone of Harmandir Sahib was laid by Syed Mian Mir. 5. Malerkotla rulers have been friends of the Sikhs and they may even be classed a Nanakpanthi The above may appear good in inter-faith meetings but why should a Muslim or Hindu become a Sikh when according to the liberal Sikhs, Sikhism wants them to remain in their religions.