proactive

Osama Bin Laden is a fully practicing follower of Islam. If what he was doing was contrary to Islam then he would be criticised by every Mullah in every Mosque around the world, but the fact is that he is not. The only ones that do criticise him are some Saudi Mullahs who are doing the bidding of the Saudi royal family because of late OBL has turned against them. Your above view could be true of most religions but not Islam. It is the complete reverse in fact. A practising Muslim is the one that creates the most problems and not the non-practising ones! Some of our American and Canadian friends need to read up on our own history rather than follow some PC nonsense. The MAJORITY of what the Mughals and Afghans did to the Sikhs in the 18th century was totally in line with the Quran and Islam.

Oh yeah, the last throw of the dice for anyone who can't put across his rosy view of Islam to those who know what Islam really is! Bhagat Kabirji wasn't a Muslim. Read his Bani and you will be hard put to find anything that is vaguely appreciative of Islam or the Quran. Maybe you should dispense with the kids books on Sikhism and read some scholarly articles on these personalities. Did Bhagat Fareed or Sain Mian Mir ever-; 1. Hate non-Muslim or think them unclean? Quran says that non believers are the 'worst of animals' 2. Did they actively try not to have non-Muslims as friends? Quran says that believers should not be friends with unbelievers.

LionheartNo1, Ta (thanks) very much. I like the way you put the meaning of some English phrases and words for the benefits of our American and Canadian friends! Some on here are intent on getting this thread closed because they are unable to argue their corner. Why waste your time on them? On the BNP issue, unless the politicians of the mainstream parties start to get a grip of the Muslim situation in the UK then it is likely that parties like the BNP will gain more and more votes. The Muslim leaders in London were doing their best to try and paint Boris Johnston as a racist and they had a campaign to get the Muslim vote out for Ken but it all fell flat! All sorts of rumours were spread about Boris even to the point of lying that Boris wants to ban the Quran!

Peacemaker, You need to get off your high horse and wake up and smell the coffee. People who come on here especially from the UK have a much better understanding of Islam than people like you sitting in the USA or Canada raised on PBS dumbed down documentaries about the 'Prophet' featuring a host of so-called scholars like Karen Armstrong and Muslim propagandists LYING in order to promote an image of Islam that is totally at odds with reality. The Muslims in your areas just haven't reached the critical mass at which stage they invariably become a problem for the non-Muslims in the area. But wait a few years and they will and we will see how your views change when their antics directly affect your life. A decade ago most Sikhs as well as most non-Muslims in the UK also thought the same PC nonsense that you are sprouting about Islam but a decade of Muslims showing their true colours have changed all these perceptions. Instead of making a big issue of Lost Generation's signature and trying your best to get this thread closed by running off to the moderators maybe you should try and understand where LG and others who don't share your rosy view of Islam are coming from. If you don't like him using that signature then hard luck, this is a free country and unless LG is misquoting something in order to defame Islam then I see no problem with his signature. Preeti, It might have been the norm to have large age gap marriages but what is the issue here is that Mohammed is held up as an example for all Muslims to follow and many 60 years old Muslims do follow his example and marry young children aged 6-9. The law in Iran was specifically changed to lower the age of marriage down to 9 because of Mohammed's example.

I was on polling duty on 1st May and the amount of stupid apnay that walked into the polling station with a card which listed the numbers to tick on the three ballot papers was astounding. These people didn't know what a mayor is, who Ken is, what the assembly is but all they knew what that they wanted to vote for 'LABBURH' There was a dumb apnay councillor giving out these cards outside the polling station. The cards he was giving out listed Ken for mayor, Labour for the party and a Hindu guy Ranjit Dheer for assemby member. Thankfully all three got their but.ts kicked. Thank God the rest of London had some sense!

At last someone at the BBC seems to have grown a backbone. Channel 4 broadcast a similar documentary a few years ago. Some of the news coverage of the documentary by the media was downright deceptive and used words such as 'Asian' youth rather than Pakistani Muslim youth. Wait for the collective accusations of Islamophobia from Muslim/Pakistani organisations. These people just cannot seem to, or do not want to control the criminal activities of their youth.

The Arab-Israeli conflict can never to solved. In 1948 711,000 Palestinian refugees fled Israel and 850,000 Jews fled the neighbouring Arab states. Whereas the Jews have settled well in Israel and moved on, the Palestinians have never been allowed by the neighbouring Arab states to become citizens and continue to live in refugee camp. This is the Arab states' political policy to keep the Palestinian issue alive. You can understand the hate that Arabs/Muslims have for Jews because of the fact that the Hadiths say that judgement day will only take place when the Muslims attack the Jews and even the stones and trees will direct the Muslims to where the Jews are hiding. How can Israel hope to have peace with people whose beliefs inculcate a religiously sanctioned hatred of the Jewish people. Bukhari. Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176: Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' " Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

You advice on just concentrating on the politics would make sense if Obama was also just concentrating on the politics. Obama is a cynical manipulator. He talks a good talk making speeches about honest discussions but when the pastor episode happened his team put out a picture of Bill Clinton with the same pastor in 1998. I mean, that's hardly taking the higher ground. Now he has released his tax returns in order to force Hillary to do the same in the hope that his team will find something to attack her on!

Natsilahk, The pastor episode is about Obama's judgement, not whether he shares the pastor's lunatic views. No one has said that he shares these views. Obama has been attending his church for 20 years. It is clear he knew about the pastor's views because he didn't invite him when he started his campaign for nomination. Smartsingh24, The double digit lead was about the polls for the PENNSYLVANIA PRIMARY and NOT NATIONWIDE POLLS. I hope you realise the difference. Hillary was 52 to Obama's 37 in the last poll. McCain nationwide was 6-8 points ahead of Obama. I suggest you read the post before accusing me of inventing facts just because you don't understand the difference between Pennsylvania and the USA as a whole. Obama's as crooked as the rest of the politicians, only a fool would think he's whiter than white. Obama's wife is on the gravy train as a director of some private hospital. According to one source they charge uninsured people 3.5 times more than insured people. So much for him being a crusader in the medical field! http://www.obamatruth.org/ is a good site which might be an antidote stung by the 'we believe' madness sweeping America. It's funny how people give Sikhs advice that we should think in the interests of the country rather than which candidate would be best for Sikhs. Other communities like Blacks, Latinos etc are all looking at what each candidate will do for the communities but only Sikhs are being advised to consider the larger interests of the country. Obama has proved with his criticism of Hillary that he neither cares not wants to understand what the problems of Sikhs are. Rather than keeping his mouth shut he took a cheap shot at Hillary and in the process showed his ignorance of Sikhs as citizens of the US as well as fed the ignorance of other Americans. Anyone who did not know about Sikhs would get a negative perception of them after reading Obama's comments. At a time when Sikhs are facing more discrimination because of mistaken identity, we have a ignoramus like Obama trying to gain a few more votes at the expense of Sikhs.

Smartsingh24, That's very understanding of you. I would guess that if you get attacked by a black guy and he cites the fact that because his community have had it so bad historically, he thought that you as a recent immigrant (in relative terms) is taking the resources that he thinks should go to the black community, so he got angry and attacked you. Would you then be so understanding? When blacks rob stores of Koreans or Indians, is that ok because they have had it really bad historically? Where does your understanding cease? So you consider the Black community as being unable to move on? That's a bit racist I think. A lot of blacks are doing well in America and unless you are on welfare and unable to make it in America or you're a well off middle class black wanting black votes, they would not attend churches like that. This is what I said. The poll figures are for the next primary in Pennsylvania. Polls are showing double digit lead for Hillary in Pennsylvania. Head to head against McCain, polls are showing him 8 points behind. Hillary is on average at 52% with Obama on 37%. If in the final count Obama only has a small lead against Hillary, then Hillary could easily sway the super delegates. It's a catch 22 situation. It would mean a lot of infighting in the democratic party.

It means that Obama considers Hillary to be helping foreigners and not US citizens. D-Punjab means the democratic senator from Punjab, not a democratic senator of NY helping US citizens of Punjabi origin. It's a bit like someone saying about any British MP helping Sikhs being called the MP from Punjab. It shows a contempt for the Sikhs who being citizens are supporting the person they think would do most for them.

Is the preacher's job to unite people or divide them? Should he have been supporting the spread of lies like Aids was invented by the whites to infect blacks. There are also lies which are told in the Black community that blacks should only support black businesses and not shop at non-black shops such as Korean or Indian shops. I suppose you also support that as well? Obama claims he never heard these things from his preacher even though he knew him for 20 years. So why is Obama lying and then disassociating himself from his preacher. Obama is as power hungry as everyone else, he just likes to make out that he wants to help the little man. The likelihood is that he's a lost cause now. Polls are showing double digit lead for Hillary in Pennsylvania. Head to head against McCain, polls are showing him 8 points behind. Even if he manages to keep his lead in delegates but doesn't cross the 2025 odd line then Hillary will be able to convince the super delegates ( I think s1ngh is a super delegate!) that Obama's a liability and get their support.

Obama's 'spiritual advisor' is a racist, conspiracy theorist looney Rev. Jeremiah Wright. The truth was going to come out one day and it did a few days ago. You can see the embarrassment in Obama, even through the news media (NBC, CNN) are trying their best to limit the damage. Hillary's ratings are up and Obama's are going down. The people who are supporting Obama need to get their heads out of the sand. A few hours after the video of Rev Wright was being shown by the news media, the Obama camp passed photos of Rev Wright shaking hands with Bill Clinton in 1998. How cynical is that, so much for 'time for a change'! He's as cynical as the rest of them. At least with McCain you get what you vote for.

A few days old, but the news is interesting because Christians are the first to take advantage of any inter-caste problems in other religions. Upper caste and Dalit Catholics clash, police shoot and kill by Nirmala Carvalho In Tamil Nadu upper caste Catholics attack Dalits, destroying dozens of their homes. They are “guilty” of demanding a separate parish. Police move in and fire at attackers. New Delhi (AsiaNews) – Two Christians died and many more were wounded shot by police who intervened yesterday to stop clashes between Dalit Catholics and upper caste Catholics in the diocese of Pondicherry- Cuddalore (Tamil Nadu). Troubles started on 7 March when a group of Dalit Christians from the Villupuram district began a hunger strike to protest discrimination in a local parish by the Vanniyar. Three months ago Dalits from St Jabamalais Annai Church in Earyur built another church dedicated to Saghaya Madha (Our Lady of perpetual Help) and sought to have it erected as a separate parish with its own priest. They were backed in their demands by two political groups, the Viduthalai Chiruthaigal Katchi (Vck) and Ambedkar Makkal Iyakkam (AMI). The VCK even put up posters calling for the closure of St Jabamalai and the recognition of the new parish church. In response some 500 upper caste Christians went on a rampage on Sunday, attacking Dalits and torching over 30 huts. Police said that when they moved in to stop the protest they were pelted with stones and were thus “forced” to open fire on the aggressors. M Periy Nayagam, 40, and A. Magimai, 24, were killed and 40 more people were wounded. Fr G Cosmon Arokiaraj, secretary to the Commission for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of India, told AsiaNews that the “confrontation in the area between Dalit and Vanniyar Catholics goes back quite some time, but the Church does not want to split a parish along caste line,” but is working towards “gradually removing discrimination against the Dalits and uprooting all forms of discrimination.” These tragic incidents show that it is urgent to ban many forms of discrimination against Dalit Christians both within the Christian community and especially society at large. In fact “since the Christian community is perceived as a single entity,” he explained, “the government does not recognise to Dalit Christians the same rights as other Dalits.” In the Indian caste system, states have granted specific benefits and quotas in schools and public service for Dalits to compensate for their secular low social standing. “For years Dalits have been discriminated within the Church itself,” he said. “They cannot sit with upper caste members in the same church; they are buried in separate cemeteries; they cannot use the same roads as upper caste people. When the mother of a Dalit priest died in the 1990s the upper caste did not allow the funeral procession to use the main road; even the bishop failed to bring about a compromise.” “In India more than 65 per cent of all Christians are Dalit, but Christians represent only 2.3 per cent of a population of 1.1 billion people.”

McCain. He's someone who has the experience. Hillary is a better democratic candidate than Obama but too many wishy washy liberal types are getting on his bandwagon. If it's McCain - Obama, McCain will win easily. Against Hillary it's more difficult.

Europe, It's good that you are linking up with Sikh websites and trying to get more Sikhi related content. I can understand that for a station to be financially viable then it has to cater to as much of the population as possible. I see no problem with Bhangra songs but as long as there is a set time for the Sikhi content. There's nothing more frustrating than tuning in hoping for some Sikhi inspiration and getting some muppets dancing around to an endless beat of balle balle! The greatest need most Sikh youth would agree is information about Sikhi/Gurbani in English. So something along the lines of the sweet Sikhi programmes on Punjab radio would be a good idea. Maybe the station could start off with a daily Sikhi hour or couple of hours at a time when most Sikh youth would be watching. Sikh content such as the Sikhnet youth online movie competition would make a good start just to get the Sikhi hour going.

I think more and more Sikhi is becoming like Catholicism. They will go to a confession on the most minor things and after being told to says a number of 'hail marys' they can then get on with their lives. PESH has always been for a Bujjar Kurehat. The only Bujjar Kurehat that this can come under is pre-marital sexual relationship. This in itself is an extension of sexual relationship with someone other than ones husband or wife which is the original Kurehat. Apologies to Bhainji for discussing her actions, but nowhere does there seem to have been something that can even be loosely described as sexual relationship. So there is no need for pesh. Nowadays people seem to be giving advice for going for pesh even for the most minor acts. I remember that someone advised an Amritdhari to do pesh because he had without his knowledge consumed something which had a trace of alcohol in it. The thing with a Bujjar Kurehat is that there has to be an intent there. Someone has to have fallen and cut his hair/smoked tobacco/alcohol or had sexual relationship. There is nothing stopping Bhainji from doing pesh if that is what she wants to do, but we should be careful in advising people when the act is not covered by the Rehat Maryada. My advice to Bhainji is that she should just move on. Our own conscience is our biggest judge and the feeling of guilt she is having is because her conscience is telling her that she has made a mistake. That is punishment enough. We are all human beings and likely to make mistakes throughout over lives. The best we can do is learn from our mistakes and never repeat them again.

Nowdays I don't think people will be overtly racist but there is always an undercurrent of racism everywhere. The way to approach this is to be confident and be friendly and approachable to members of the public as well as colleagues. Some of the negativity that you might be come across from members of the public is due to the perception through the media that PCSOs are 'policing on th cheap' and that you don't have the same powers as normal police officers. My work involves closely working with the police and other government departments and this is almost the universal perception within the police. As for racism in the police force there has been a great deal of changes since the Stephen Lawrence enquiry and the feelings of most Police I come across is that they need to think twice before they can even make a joke just incase they come across as racist. I don't think you need to worry but if you still have doubts then I would look into getting a transfer into your own borough. You can cite family commitments as the reasons because if you say what you really feel then unless you present them with evidence then they will most likely reject it. Good luck in your new job!

Let the <banned word filter activated> have his little fun. Chances are he'll be blown up like Bhutto in the next few months!

Inder Singh you are as confused as the writer of that article. He says Ghagga was a professor of SMC and then says that the spokesmen of Gurmat Missionary College lied when they said they did not know who Ghagga was. What is it with you opponents of SMC, you keep mixing up the different colleges.

Nope, I couldn't see the Sky channel number on the website either. Can someone give me CTS telephone number I want to make a fake injury claim?

I have a lot of respect for people who actually read what Ghagga or Kala Afghana has written and then debate with them in order to prove their assertion wrong. Anyone who just goes around spreading rumours has way too much time on his hands!

this is news to me.Jat regiments are hindu regiments.Sikh regiments are separate from Jat regiments. You are right, they weren't called Jat regiments but they were composed majority of Jats. The British recruited mostly Jats or Mazbi Sikhs. The Jats formed the Sikh regiment and the Mazbis formed the Pioneer battalions which later became Sikh Light Infantry.

What material? All you've done is added 2 and 2 and come up with 5. I think your real beef with SMC is their stance on Dasam Granth and their disregard for so-called Sants and Babas. Why don't you debate about the real causes of your dislike for SMC rather than beating the dead horse of Ghagga and Kala Afghana. Tuun ta ohna da nam ihni vaari liya hai mainu laga ohna nu lagataar shikkan laggiya hon giyan!

My messiah? You must know me more than I do, because I don't support any Kala Afghana or Chitta Afghana or any other Rang daar Afghana. Oh I forgot anyone supporting SMC is automatically a Kala Afghana supporter!