dehra's

[sissy]

hi

what does everyone think about dehra's..............lil temples dedicated to people associated with guru's eg dehra's in memory of baba sri chand ji (guru nanak dev ji's eldest son) exist in india

many thanks :TH:

[Jaspaul Singh]

There is nothing wrong wit them...

but sikhi wise...

If there is beadbi of guru granth sahib ji, if there is something going on against sikhism principles, or anything else that is wrong accordings to sikhi ... then we shouldnt associate with them...

otherwise we got lots of them all over the place...

[sher_panjabi]

Deras = nothing too with Sikhi

Sikhs have Gurdwaras

Deras "can be" a breeding ground for "sant-worship", abuse and practices contrary to Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib's Maryada.

[Guest Akaal108]

Listen to Sant baba Jarnail Singh bhindranvaley... who gives ti t-for tat answer to people who are "against" dera's or think dera is anti gurmat... i almost fell laughing.. it was audio tape..i think it was sant gyani gurbachan singh bhindranvaley barsi check it out .. <_<

[AK-47]

Nothing wrong with them as singh said if they teaching gurmat and have full respect of maharajh. The 'dehra's that sikhs will typically visit are the taksal, nanaksar and nihnag singhs dehre.

The above are just places where singhs associated with those groups stay and study and teach. Eg many people will go to taksal dehra to learn santia of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and learn how to do katha, while Taksal also teaches Dasam Granth Ji di santia, people i believe tend to go learn this off the nihang singh dehra's. They just like headquarters from where the parchar stems out.

Of course there are PLENTY of dodgy ones throught the world, you have to just keep gurmat in mind when observing what they do.

And yes most are contrary to akal takhat maryada... usually because using the above 3 as a n example, their maryada is usually stricter and more concise than akal takhat maryada! :TH:

I think the places your referring to are usually called 'dharmic asthaan's' or just simply mandir's or gurdwara's (i.e. places in memory of the gurus/bhagats) . For a dera there will usually need to be people there who stay there are promotoe some aspect of sikhi. Doesnt neccesarily have to be at particularly historical place.

[Guest Akaal108]

If it wasn't for the dera's (Nirmaley, Damdami Taksal, Nihang, Sevapanthis, udasi dera's) sikhi wouldn't have exist.

We all know how fake sant/baba's dera are grossly interpertated as an " good dera of sant/baba's" so one need to use better usage of words otherwise days are not far where every youths start hating every sant/mahapursh/gurmukhs who have done soo much for the kaum. Alas, rise of "Malech Khalsa".

[sher_panjabi]

If it wasn't for the dera's (Nirmaley, Damdami Taksal, Nihang, Sevapanthis, udasi dera's) sikhi wouldn't have exist.

Maaf Karnaa but how has a group of naked roaming saadhus, who shave their heads and smear ash over their bodies (ie. Udaasi) helped Sikhi's existence??? Seems (1) they are not Sikhs (2) they are not following Guru's Sikhi

Waheguru help us! I think Kamalroop, Bahadar Singh, and Niddar Singh's propaganda of distorting Sikhi and including these people as Sikhs and twisting facts that these people were blessed by Guru Gobind to start their own sects is a load of rubbish which unfortunately is confusing a lot of vulnerable people who want to learn about Sikhi!

bhul chuk maaf

[GuruManeyoGranth]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

AK-47 has hit the nail on the head I reckon. Deras are places of study and worship. The site where they are based are not gurudwaras, although some deras may have a gurudwara in them.

Deras are places where Sikhi is learnt - therefore they do have an important role to play in Sikhi... just look at the amount of parchaar done and people who have been inspired into Sikhi from Mehta Chowk (Damdami Taksal), Jagraon (Nanaksar), Rara Sahib, Harkhowal, etc - it is an immense and unquantifiable amount. Akaal Takhat Sahib Jathedars themselves visit these deras, and acknowledge the parchaar done there.

But one does have to be careful, as Manvir bhajee has pointed out, that they do not become places of anti-gurmat activity. Just because it is a dera, itself does not automatically mean Manmat. Manmat activity can arise anywhere - in deras, in gurudwaras (as we may see and experience), as well as the rest of the world.

The deras mentioned above are not places of sant-worship - but they do remember the sants who Japped Naam themselves and encouraged tens of thousands of others to Jap Naam as well.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Waheguroo

[Guest Akaal108]

Sher punjabi,

You should get your facts right about Nirmaley (Read some ethas).

Nirmaley do not shave their heads. They are first given amrit by Dasam Patasah-when 5 singhs came back from banaras who were send by Siri Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Not only that Bhai Daya Singh Ji (who was 1st panj pyara of siri guroo gobind singh ji ) and along with pyares were trained by those 5 nirmaley singhs..

That's why you will see nirmaley wear two distinctive colors- 1. Sadhu color 2. pure white (rara sahib, nanakar, harkhowaley, sant baba sunder singh bhindranvaley prior to sant baba gurbachan singh bhindranvaley).

I do acknowledge some nirmaley do cut their hair.. they are kicked out from main nirmaley akhara(dera) in haridvar but these psuedo nirmaley set up their dera else where..now that's a people we need to aware of...just how we got psuedo taksali ie - bhai ram singh clan, nihang dals got their- bhai balbir singh faction, you will find same thing in nirmaley, udasi and sevapanthis.

Famous nirmaley saints scholars in nut shell- Bhai Sahib Kavi Santokh Singh (author of suraj parkash granth), Gian Gyan Singh (Author of pancheen parkash granth) Great nirmaley scholars who contributed in farid kot teka of siri guroo granth sahib ji, Bhai Vir Singh Ji (according to his adhyatamic knowledge) , Sant baba attar singh ji mustaneywaley, Sant baba Sunder Singh Ji Bhindranvaley, Sahib Sant baba Karam Singh Hoti Mardan, Sant baba Jawala Singh Horkhowaley and many more.

Read more on Sevapanthis - http://www.sewapanthi.org (excellent resource).

We all know about Udasi- see video regarding udasi parchar in Sikhi on gursikhijeevan.com

http://www.gursikhijeevan.com/media/video/...nPrecharaks.wmv

At the end: If you are western Sikh it's understandable one will not have that much knowledge about sampardha's and their dera's. No problem there but problem arises when you use that ignorance not to educate yourself but start rejecting everything and start slandering them.

[sher_panjabi]

Maaf Karnaa but how has a group of naked roaming saadhus, who shave their heads and smear ash over their bodies (ie. Udaasi) helped Sikhi's existence??? Seems (1) they are not Sikhs  (2) they are not following Guru's Sikhi 

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Bhai Sahib I was referring to "Udaasi" as i mentioned in the bracket - when referring to the shaving of the heads.