IF............

[*PO$H_ Da_PO$HY*]

........ we did thrive having Khalistan/khalstan/((whatever other spellings you have for it))!! Are there any plans about how the constituiton is gonna work...as in is Khalistan gonna be governed by the gurdwara or by different political parties??

and if its the gurdwara ...how are they gonna get the funds to get the army and stuff..u know what i mean ...like how are they gonna set up everything and that....

jus curious ...so do let me kno about anything you KNOW regarding the topic

n also will the hindus or people from other faiths...will they be asked to leave

[MrT]

Damn...neva really thought of dat 1...

[DhadiMania]

Are there any plans about how the constituiton is gonna work...as in is Khalistan gonna be governed by the gurdwara or by different political parties??

the army, navy and air force would be controlled by elite commanders with so much experience in simran, the panj pyare.

the constituition, well its been made, been years when i read it.

i think the akali dal and these other factors would try to be the labour, conservatives of khalistan.

...how are they gonna get the funds to get the army and stuff..u know what i mean ...like how are they gonna set up everything and that....

trade, 90% of all of food in india is made in punjab, hence why its known as the bread basket of india. that 90% is shipped around the world and india gets money, making it a powerful nation, india gets its cash particularly from trade. it gets its resources and stuff frm there. if india can get 1 million + troops from resources like trade, imagine what else they could get?

n also will the hindus or people from other faiths...will they be asked to leave

if they were, it would be against the gurus will.

gustaphi maaf

[Kumi2]

it will be run by the sarbat khalsa

[Khalsa_starr]

Don't forget Infrustructure! (roads, schools, sewer/water, power, transportation). I wonder also how corruption will be dealt with, if there is any.

sarbat khalsa????

Who are they? i hope we don't have elections and all that crap, i now understand that elections and voting is a bad way to run things.

[AK-47]

Kandola bro, good stuff, but just to point one thing out, in the late 1980's and early 1990's Punjab produced around 60% of the nations wheat and rice. Since then states like kerala have had govt funding to improve their agri worth and have since started producing large scales of surplus food. this meant that in the late 1990's punjab was reduced to producing just 45% of the nations rice and wheat. Since then further govt funding in other states has led to increased agri production and industrial prod, but punjab has had rubbish agri policy and NO industrial policy at all. Which means that today punjab supplies more than likely even less than 45%.

this does not mean punjab/khalistan cannot survive, it just shows another way of abusing a vibrant state to make it stagnant. Punjab should be flourishing today, but instead it drowns in muddy waters. If you would like more info on the punjab economy i can give u a rough reading guide as it is something i studied while at university.

If the Khalsa the sons and daughters of Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharajh can fight without their heads, can jaap naam till their swaas merge with vaheguru, can do seva of those the world abandoned, can achieve anything with gurus kirpa, then surely running a state is no big thing!

[Bijla Singh]

Don't forget Infrustructure! (roads, schools, sewer/water, power, transportation)

perhaps it will be little smarter for you to think that other Sikhs are well aware of the situation but since you are thinking along this line you should know that:

Transportation:

Punjab has more roads and railroads than some of the countries in the world that have larger area than Punjab. India and Pakistan in 1947 had very less roads and railroads which were built by the british. some bridges still stand from the time of british that can fall any time. conditions of roads is terrible in both countries. and you can go to UP and Bihar to see how railroad system works just by looking at those bhayeeas on the top roof of the train.

Electricity:

Punjab provides electricity (hydro) to Haryana, Himachal, Delhi and some areas of Rajasthan. also, many area of UP, Bihar and some of the south indian states have no electricity at all. in Amritsar there is a power cut of 8 hours in a week minimum. west punjab's situation is far worse.

Education:

In education, Punjab is at 5th rank (used to be 2nd) in India. 85% of Indian population is uneducated. Punjab has more schools, nursing homes than many of the indian states. problem is that education system is being controlled by the government agencies and students are being given drugs and false representation of history instead of the real education.

how corruption will be dealt with

which is country in the world is free of corruption? None.

This is very very VERY brief summary of the facts. But my main point is that these problems exist in india and pakistan more than in Punjab. These problems exist in USA and other western countries. Right now, Sikhs are more concerned with their survival not how they would like to travel by roads etc. Once a country is established everything is done afterwards and all problems are tackled after independence. If all problems are solved before independence then what is the purpose of a separate country anyway? It is our (Sikhs) responsibility to solve all the problems. After all, our leaders will be elected by us and we are the future. How we want to run our country and what kind of country we want to establish is up to us. So rather than throwing questions, try to come up with some solutions because that is what Sikhs do. losers throw questions. Winners seek answers. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Khalsa_starr]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

perhaps it will be little smarter for you to think that other Sikhs are well aware of the situation but since you are thinking along this line you should know that:

Thanks for your input, at least i know when i head over there to do my work, i already will have something to add onto.

This is very very VERY brief summary of the facts. But my main point is that these problems exist in india and pakistan more than in Punjab.

Isn't punjab part of india?

Right now, Sikhs are more concerned with their survival not how they would like to travel by roads etc. Once a country is established everything is done afterwards and all problems are tackled after independence.

Once again, the magic wand will suddenly fix everything, brother, nothing in the world works that way. It takes years for conditions to change and a proper system established. And why wait till then? no one know for sure that when khalistan will be created, it could be 20-40, who know how many years. Why should our ppl wait to see changes then? Please i would like to know. And ppl are concerned about their quality of life, and how they travel. Don't farmers use roads and water? don't ppl go to school to learn and use electricty? of course, punjab is better off than other areas of india, however, there is always something that can be done to make the situation better.

If all problems are solved before independence then what is the purpose of a separate country anyway? It is our (Sikhs) responsibility to solve all the problems.

You just answered your own question, it is our responsibilty to solve our own problems. Your suggestion that we should wait for the Khalistan, bad abd idea. It's more easy to start these projects early, rather then waiting for our future government to do it. It's uncertain how stable Khalistan will be right after and several years after such a seperation. The governemnt will be more concerned about sending money and resources to guard the borders and counter insurgents. Were will

they find time and resources to take care of the infrustructure then? Why waht till then? Start now.

After all, our leaders will be elected by us and we are the future. How we want to run our country and what kind of country we want to establish is up to us.

I would like to hope so, however, we don't know who will run the country, you never know when a rival group will feel like grabbing power for themself (it has happened before). Especially in times of unrest. Ppl can be cruel, i wouldn't be so trusting in men if i where you. Sorry, but the lure of power can be very tempting.

So rather than throwing questions, try to come up with some solutions because that is what Sikhs do. losers throw questions. Winners seek answers.

95941[/snapback]

Then were is your answer? or your solution? Oh right, wait for the magic wand to appear and fix everything. Sorry, it doesnt work that way, the true solutions need to be researched, which i have already started. Hopfully, i will be heading to Punjab with several other interested ppl to survey our fellow sikhs and others on how their everyday life can be made better, and ideas for future projects. I think the rest of the forum would like to know yuor ideas.

Asking questions to others is one way of getting their opinion and then we can start to look at solutions. If no one stands up, or ask question? how can we find solutions? That's one of the reasons why our governments neglect us, no one stands up for their rights, or asks questions.

You can't solve or answer an invisable question Bijla.

[Bijla Singh]

Isn't punjab part of india?

Looking at how Punjab is treated compared to other states, I don't think so. but main point was that right now Punjab is still lot better than other states.

Once again, the magic wand will suddenly fix everything, brother, nothing in the world works that way. It takes years for conditions to change and a proper system established. And why wait till then?

It is your assumption that I want to wait or recommend others to wait. waiting for things to happen is not part of Sikhi. By Guru Ji's grace I carve my own destiny. The magic wand we have is Naam Simran. This wand will help us to do everything.

And ppl are concerned about their quality of life, and how they travel.

only after they are assured that their religion, history, Gurdwaras, and women are safe.

of course, punjab is better off than other areas of india, however, there is always something that can be done to make the situation better.

this was the main point of my post. now, state what can be done. don't just write questions, write answers. that would be a good start for all of us.

Were will they find time and resources to take care of the infrustructure then? Why waht till then? Start now.

finding resources is the responsibility of the government. if they don't do it then who will? and yes you can start now if you have lot of funding and "biggest democracy" government doesn't stop you. as a matter of fact, delhi government never actually looked for resources in punjab nor they want Punjab to be a developed state.

Your suggestion that we should wait for the Khalistan, bad abd idea.

show me where I made that suggestion. I am not responsible for your false assumptions.

however, we don't know who will run the country, you never know when a rival group will feel like grabbing power for themself

I know who will run the country but if I assume you are correct even then country will still survive because such things happen everyday everywhere but countries still survive.

Then were is your answer? or your solution?

In my mind and will put it forward when the right time comes. it is easy for people to criticize something but very hard to give alternative solutions. but keep in mind that Khalstan is for everybody so everybody must join in and work for the best of the country not just you or me.

the true solutions need to be researched, which i have already started.

good. Read "Bahadur Sikh Kaum Kiven Pinjray Vich Payee" because you will see that the writer has done an excellent job in finding solutions. you have begun but he is done. but you keep at it. two brains better than one.

i will be heading to Punjab with several other interested ppl to survey our fellow sikhs and others on how their everyday life can be made better

"Sukh Nahee Ray Har Bhagat Bina". good luck to you and your friends. you know, anyone who shows little bit of sympathy towards Sikhs is a "traitor" of the country. soon, your name will be on the top hit list of delhi sarkaar.

I think the rest of the forum would like to know yuor ideas.

how about ideas of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. here are some of 'em

"Jab Lahg Khalsa Rahay Niara.."

"Siri Mukh Baheyoo Gareeb Nivaaj..."

"Raj Bina Nahin Dharam Chalay Hain..."

you can fill in the rest. without Gurbani we are nothing and never will we get any Raj. Only true Khalsa will get Raj from Guru Ji.

no one stands up for their rights

hmm....then why did the government attack Darbar Sahib and killed thousand of Gursikhs? Sikhs have always stood for the right cause and truth.

You can't solve or answer an invisable question Bijla.

I can't that's why I seek answers from Guru Ji.

I find it funny that you chose to ignore the facts and only criticized the last paragraph of my post which was totally my opinions. I only gave you a summary of problems being faced by india and pakistan but even then both countries are surviving. other indians and pakistanis have far worse lives than Sikhs in Punjab. We will survive too. of course, we shouldn't ignore anything but there is always the need for improvements. You ask any Khalastan supporter for his reasons for suporting Khalastan. see what he/she says.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Khalsa_starr]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Looking at how Punjab is treated compared to other states, I don't think so. but main point was that right now Punjab is still lot better than other states.

something we both agree on.

It is your assumption that I want to wait or recommend others to wait. waiting for things to happen is not part of Sikhi. By Guru Ji's grace I carve my own destiny. The magic wand we have is Naam Simran. This wand will help us to do everything.

Then let us do these things ahead of time, so our next generation can have something to look foward to right?

only after they are assured that their religion, history, Gurdwaras, and women are safe.

That's the job of groups like Dal Khalsa, KLF and other groups, that's why another group must be set up to deal with the other maters. No single force can tackle everything at once, even governments have different divisions to handle different tasks.

finding resources is the responsibility of the government. if they don't do it then who will? and yes you can start now if you have lot of funding and "biggest democracy" government doesn't stop you. as a matter of fact, delhi government never actually looked for resources in punjab nor they want Punjab to be a developed state.

Another user pointed out that the indian government already doesnt care about the ppl in punjab. And as for resources not getting developed, you don't know what will happen 10-15 years down the line, it's inetivable that more forgien companies will get interested in punjab, along with it, is a chance to grab some of those resources. Of course, money can persuade alot of ppl in the government. And the onlt province not to develop? i thought punjab was stratigicaly important to india?

show me where I made that suggestion. I am not responsible for your false assumptions.

"Once a country is established everything is done afterwards and all problems are tackled after independence"

I know who will run the country but if I assume you are correct even then country will still survive because such things happen everyday everywhere but countries still survive.

I don't have doubt in the ppl that are supposed to be ruling Khalistan, but i am worried that others may have a different objectives in mind. Yes, it is a serious issue. If this where to happen, i would still try to do something.

In my mind and will put it forward when the right time comes. it is easy for people to criticize something but very hard to give alternative solutions. but keep in mind that Khalstan is for everybody so everybody must join in and work for the best of the country not just you or me.

My point exactly, alternative solutions. I have a plan that doesn't call for tons of money. Latly, i have been trying to smooth out a possible plan to house ppl and give ppl work! That is right, everybody must pitch in.

good. Read "Bahadur Sikh Kaum Kiven Pinjray Vich Payee" because you will see that the writer has done an excellent job in finding solutions. you have begun but he is done. but you keep at it. two brains better than one.

Could you direct me? website perahps, i'm very interested in this.

"Sukh Nahee Ray Har Bhagat Bina". good luck to you and your friends. you know, anyone who shows little bit of sympathy towards Sikhs is a "traitor" of the country. soon, your name will be on the top hit list of delhi sarkaar.

Let me point out something to you:

What would happen if Sant Jarnail (bhindranwale) stayed home and hid from risk?

What would happen if our guru's (10) and leaders stayed home of fear of death?

We don't even begin to think of stuff like this, and why would any of our leaders past and present would think about it? When you do any sort of project or leadership you accept the fact that you might be in harms way some day, but you keep going on, you don't cower away just because some ppl may disagree with you.

We all know that digging roads, building schools and keeping care of our youth may not be as dramatic or exciting as shooting a gun or planning offensive moves, but someone has to do it. It may be small and not very glamorous, and the ppl who do it may not get as much coverage as those who fight in battle, but sometimes the smallest things can make the biggest impact.

My ideas would eventually cover anyone who is in the Khalistan region, i don't care much for just taking care of one set of ppl, why not help others? This would lessen the risk because others would not feel left out or betrayed. Anyone from the outside would see that i'm (and others) are not just sympathetic towards sikhs. Poverty is in every religion and culture that resides in punjab.

And by the way, thank Bijla, your good generocity has made me even more happy that i'm doing waht i'm doing.

hmm....then why did the government attack Darbar Sahib and killed thousand of Gursikhs? Sikhs have always stood for the right cause and truth.

I was talking on a more worldy view, and yes sikhs have and are proving to stand up for their goals and beliefs.

I can't that's why I seek answers from Guru Ji.

Then why did you bother bringing up the thought in the first place if you already knew the answer??

I find it funny that you chose to ignore the facts and only criticized the last paragraph of my post which was totally my opinions.

I didn't: "Thanks for your input, at least i know when i head over there to do my work, i already will have something to add onto."

I only gave you a summary of problems being faced by india and pakistan but even then both countries are surviving. other indians and pakistanis have far worse lives than Sikhs in Punjab. We will survive too. of course, we shouldn't ignore anything but there is always the need for improvements.

Does meer survival good enough? Why not do better? Afterall, we are trying to create a better place for our future children.

You ask any Khalastan supporter for his reasons for suporting Khalastan. see what he/she says.

And so i will Bijla,

You know Bijla, we seem to agree on many things and we are argueing over meer misunderstandings of each other. You indeed have more knowledge when it comes to sikhism than me, after all i am a convert. Have you ever thought about moving to punjab to help our brothers and sisters? or are you weary of some sort of threat to your well being?

i hope we can get along better than we have lately.

-Khalsa Starr

Note: if you wonder why i am always telling others about this stuff, did you know that i have a good knowledge in city and rurul planning. I and know a few things that make ppl happy.