Khalistan-the Final Solution

[Bijla Singh]

First I want to say that I am very disappointed in this forum. Moderators and admin have failed to keep this forum neutral and what they promised it would be after the split. Too many topics attacking Sikh jathas and Sikh homeland.

Number of people have nothing better to do than attacking Khalistan, the Sikh homeland which for some reason they fear the most. I am starting this topic to give them a chance to prove their point. Show me how you think Khalistan will not survive and fail as a country. Discuss economical issues, religious or social. Pick your favorite category but be reasonable. Don't make assumptions like "if this then that". You have right to your opinion but once opinions are expressed they become arguments which must be supported by valid facts. It will be hard to discuss it with every single person so all anti-Khalistanis can pick their "leaders" one, two or three so we can have mutual discussion. Provide reasoning and proofs. Now let's get it out in the open. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Khalsa_starr]

First of all, am i disapointed that many users feel that khalistan is the be all, end all solution to all problems that face sikh. And secondly, i am sad that we are not focosing on other matters more pressing.

As for my views on khalistan... I, like alot of sikhs and non-sikhs look past the idealist views and look at the possible effects that such a move could have on other cultures and people. Yes, guru gobind singh stated that sikh sovernty was essential for the survival of our religion. However he wouldn't approve of the state of the people of sikhi in its state today. We must cleanse the ppl of sikhi and promote the basics of sikhi before we think about preserving. After all, we would not want to preserve caste use at temples, the SGPC and different sects of sikhism do we.

That is all i'll say, i am remaining neutral on this subject from now on.

nuff said...

[singhmota]

Excerpt From a book

Sikh Case for Independence

Given below is a brief list sampling the mistreatments, denial of promises and rights, and subjugation under genocidal repressionary policies that the progressive and freedom-loving Sikh-Punjabi nation has had to endure from the Brahmanist Casteocracy since 1947:

Betrayal of promises of political autonomy and cultural rights under which Punjab entered Indian Union (Nehru, 1946: " I see nothing wrong with setting up an autonomous region in the north where the brave Sikhs can also bask in the glow of freedom").

Casteocracy declared "brave Sikhs" as a "criminal tribe" in 1947 (by Nehru, Patel) immediately after independence.

Under the Indian Constitution framed by Brahmanists, Sikhs are classified as "Hindus". To get a marriage license in "secular India", Sikhs must sign a form entitled "The Hindu Marriage Act of 1951".

Denial of Punjabi linguistics rights till 1967. All "Hindu" and non-Jat states were reorganized and given their linguistic/cultural rights in early 1950s. Over 250,000 Sikhs demonstrated peacefully and courted arrest in 50s and 60s to get their linguistic rights (this is 5 times the number of Indians arrested by British in the whole "quit India movement").

GOI's active cooperation with Kannaujia Brahmanist infiltration organizations from Brahmavarta or Brahministan (like RSS/Arya Samaj) in spreading anti-Punjab and anti-Sikh hate propaganda to i) polarize and communalize Punjabi society along fradulent "Hindu-Sikh" lines and ii) twist the regime's 20 year denial of Punjabi linguistic and cultural rights (in violation of the Indian Constitution and pre-independence promises) into a communal issue leading to the tri-partition of East Punjab in 1967.

Purposely leaving out 2 majority speaking Punjabi districts (in reference to 1961 census) out of Punjab state finally formed in 1967 after 20 years of peaceful protest and demonstrations.

Dismissal of all 5 Akali Govts democratically elected in Punjab by GOI prior to term completion before 1983. GOI has been in constant violation of political rights of Punjabis as granted by the Indian Constitution.

Denial of political and economic freedom of Punjabis through denial of all pre-independence promises on autonomy, imposition of a centralized unitary system, and Permit and License Raj.

During early 1980s, policy of hegemonic control turned to a policy of violent control in which over 105,000 Sikhs were massacred in Delhi, Amritsar and Punjab by the Casteocracy (figure is from US State Department sources and quoted in a 1993 letter of 23 US Congressmen/Senators to President Clinton). All 105,000 were killed supposedly to catch Indira Gandhi's "300 Sikh militants" of 1983.

Engineering political destabilization in Punjab so that army rule and genocidal state terror/violence could be imposed on Sikhs. The policy objective was to brutally crush the Sikh population (Stalinist style) so they would settle for plain peace and life at any cost (like obedient Shudras) and give up all demands for implementation of 1946 promises and constitutional rights.

Army desecration of 40 historical Gurdwaras throughout Punjab between 1984-87 (Operation Bluestar and Operation Woodrose) including the holiest shrine in Sikhdom - the Golden Temple.

It is for these reason that Sikhs/Punjabis of honor (ankh) and conscience (zameer) cannot consider the India Union to be their country and want their sovereignty and lands back so they can pursue their political, economic, cultural and linguistic aspirations in their own country - free from Brahmanist hegemony, vile, treachery, terror and genocide!

We will keep fighting for khalistan as it was our right in 1947 and Hindooos lied to the Sikhs!!!!!!!!!

Gaza is free of Israilies isnt it???? So nothing is impossible.

PS Bijla singh Ji people come here to attack khalistan on purpose that tells about the popularity of the forum in the sikh youth. It is upto learned knowledgeable singhs like you to educate the youth why we need khalistan. So keep up the effort without getting disappointed :TH: singhs always in chardikala :e:

[Bijla Singh]

First of all, am i disapointed that many users feel that khalistan is the be all, end all solution to all problems that face sikh.

Khalistan is the only solution to end oppression and injustice on Sikhs. Khalistan is the only solution to flourish Sikhi.

As for my views on khalistan... I, like alot of sikhs and non-sikhs look past the idealist views and look at the possible effects that such a move could have on other cultures and people.

Explain more. Do you think Khalistan will eradicate other cultures? What cultures other than Punjabi exist in Punjab?

Yes, guru gobind singh stated that sikh sovernty was essential for the survival of our religion. However he wouldn't approve of the state of the people of sikhi in its state today.

One of your earlier posts said that Guru Ji could never have imagined the world we live in today. Now you are talking about his imagination about Khalistan. contradicting here are we?

We must cleanse the ppl of sikhi and promote the basics of sikhi before we think about preserving. After all, we would not want to preserve caste use at temples, the SGPC and different sects of sikhism do we.

So you approve that religion (Sikhi) must play an important role in Khalistan. This means you do not support separate church and state idea. If I assumed wrong then your argument becomes wrong because a country can survive without any religion which would mean that promoting Sikhi has nothing to do with survival of Khalistan.

That is all i'll say, i am remaining neutral on this subject from now on.

In many other topics you did not stay neutral then why now? Here is your chance to educate the Khalistanis and show them the way to "look beyond idealist views".

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Sabre Sword]

My personnel view is to restart another singh sabha movement RIGHT NOW

[Khalsa_starr]

Explain more. Do you think Khalistan will eradicate other cultures? What cultures other than Punjabi exist in Punjab?

120532[/snapback]

You think sikhism and punjabi culture are the only ppl that live there?

I fnd it hard to believe that there are no hindu's and muslims in punjab, that is so unrealistic and arrogant, do more research mr. punjabi!

One of your earlier posts said that Guru Ji could never have imagined the world we live in today. Now you are talking about his imagination about Khalistan. contradicting here are we?

120532[/snapback]

What are you talking about? As everyone knows, humans can't see into the future, nor could GGS, waheguru can, he knows everything. I thought you would have known this by now...

So you approve that religion (Sikhi) must play an important role in Khalistan. This means you do not support separate church and state idea. If I assumed wrong then your argument becomes wrong because a country can survive without any religion which would mean that promoting Sikhi has nothing to do with survival of Khalistan.

120532[/snapback]

I personaly don't like to see politics and religion, history has taught us that religion and politics can be a fatal mix. Sikhism and politics can mix due to basic concepts of sikhi, however when imperfect humans start to get in the mix, sometimes the effects can be negative. Don't you agree?

Like i said, promote sikhi and clean it before trying to preserve it, this concept applies to almost anything. I am happy to see others pursue khalistan, however, like i said before, i will not get involved in politics (physically). Politics has almost killed my culture and has nearly wiped out our race - i have already said this before.

Go ahead and promote khalistan, i applaud you, you are brave brother, however i myself will not get invlolved into it.

In many other topics you did not stay neutral then why now? Here is your chance to educate the Khalistanis and show them the way to "look beyond idealist views".

120532[/snapback]

That is why i usually give both sides of the topic when it comes to issues like this, perhaps i should do it more on these boards. I often have dreams and visions of khalistan, no doubt, most of us have! However some ppl try to work for it, while others don't. There's no crime in persueing another area of sikhi.

WJKK WJKF

-KS

[Gupt daasan daas]

khalsa staar je

no culutre in punjaab will be eradicated

this is not the aim of khalstaan

no religion will be destroyed or attacked

we arnt gonna become the next india

hindus can do there thing

muslims can do there thing

sikhs can do there thing

christians can do there thing

lets stop divinding mankind, and recongize ourselves as one family

thas one of the main principles taught to us by guru je, and one of the main principles khalstaan will run on

that we all originate from the one, vaheguru

and u are mistaken if u think guru goibnd singh je was different than vaheguru

guru gobind singh je was the same as guru nanak dev je

guru nanak dev je was same as akaal

guru nanak dev govind roop

there are many other thuks from GURBANEE i can show u to prove this, but ONE is enough

just like water is same as water

guru nanak dev je was ame as akaal

and gur gbind singh je was same as gur nanak

we all must realise guru nanak dev je was no different than akaal

miri and piri go hand in hand

i agree with u that when people like badal get involved for there own intrests big problems occur

dw

guru je will not bless us with khalstaan until we are ready for it in all ways, including spirtually

have pateince singh sahib

and veer je its always good to show 2 sides of the story

but always remeber that we shud always stay with the truth

i kno wa ure sayin

khalstaan must be made only when we are spirtually prepared

dw

until we are, guur je will not give us khalstaan

khalstaan will be made

it willbe amazing

siki will floursih

many things will happen

but we must start to become strong in our own personal sikhi first

just like sant je said, if miri piris master guru hargobind sahib je patshah is behind us there is no power in this world that can stop us

but we all gotta remeber

guru je will only help us as long as we remain in reight and hold sikhi dear t our hearts like past shaheeds and singhs and singhnees

until then guru je will not be behind us

bhula chuka maf

[Bijla Singh]

hinduism and islam are religions not cultures. give me one example from the past 500 years of Sikh history when Sikhs tried to eliminate other religious groups. On the contrary I can give you at least ten examples. Just pick up a hstory book and read how Baba Banda Singh, Bhai Baaj Singh, Bhai Shabeg Singh Ji, Nawab Kapoor Singh, Sardar Jassa Singh, Bhai Hari Singh, Maharaja Ranjit Singh, and many others ruled their areas and treated non-Sikhs. However, India policy of Hindi Hindu and Hindustan became crystal clear in 1947.

First lesson taught to a Sikh is that Guru is the Shabad not a physical body. So please study Sikhi more carefully.

If you don't want to debate, it's fine but you shouldn't be writing posts against Khalistan without providing any reasoning. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[CDN]

if Khalistan will be ruled by sikh rules.......it is discriminating against other faiths.......bottem line.......Khalistan will be a racist nation which will become the sikh version of the Taliban......thanks to fanatic khalistanis...sikhs are already jokes

[Gupt daasan daas]

when maharaja ranjit singh ruled

no religion was perseucted

and that was sikh raj

under banda bahudur singhs we didnt say nothin to hindus or muslims

y

because sikhi says to lvoe all religions

i love all religions

i read bout as many as i can

i got freinds FROM ALL

some of my tighest boyz at skool r hinduus

so i aint supportin somethin tha gonna attack someone else beliefs, we all gods children

and seriously

ure a huge bhagath

u can predict things before they happen

khalstaan is open to anyone and anything

but it will be ruled by sikhs

man sikh raj has been here before

no religion was hurt

in fact

we built mandirs and moques

so y wud it be different now

we wud love hindus and muslims , cause they our brothers too

guru je gave his head to save hindoo dharm

muslims and sikhs fought side by side

ure just posting crap again

lol its so funny

u have no proof u just make up prohecies

that make no sence at all

bhula chuka maf