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[>Bikramjit Singh<]

Its the first time I heard that Hitler, Stalin Saddam were 'founders' of any religious ideology.

You need to learn the difference between religious ideology and Autocracy.

The men above were instigators of totalitarian systems of government.

Hitler - National Socialism

Saddam - Baathist

Chariman Mao - Moaist/Communist

PalPot - Fascist

So, no they were NOT founders of religious thought.

Founders of spiritual systems have other trademarks like Walking on water, healing the sick, giving sight to the blind - but this is for another discussion.

128474[/snapback]

Ok so if someone isn't born into a religion and these guys weren't the founders of a NEW religion then doesn't that make them atheists?

It's funny how atheists pick on the bad things committed by people who claim to be part of a religion but try and deny that the biggest genocidal killers were Atheists

[Atheist]

Thats your perception, but heres my view which ought to change your view of Atheists in general.

Human beings can be bad at the same time they can be of a religious conviction

Human beings can be bad at the same time they can be of a non-religious conviction

Human beings can be good and can be of non-reilgious conviction

Human beings can be bad and can be of reilgious conviction.

What unites people is NOT religion as human history has proven time and time again, but a four letter word beginning with L

[GushK]

What unites people is NOT religion as human history has proven time and time again, but a four letter word beginning with L

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and what do most religions (i can vouch Sikhi for this without any hesitation) at thier base try to inspire, in every human being?

come on, say it with me...you know you want to...it that 4 letter word beginning with L again... :TH:

[Atheist]

Love, doesnt have the old baggage of fanaticism, selfishness, politics etc associated with religion.

Love is a single entity unto itself, it's unconditional.

Reiligion is NOT unconditional, its the opposite.

Sorry if that didn't quite get the answer you wanted, but got to be honest mate.

[gupt_paapi]

SIkhi says 2 haf unconditional love for God...

and

"if u dont see god in all u dont see god at all"

therfore u love all makes sense?

u seem to generalise 2 much

[>Bikramjit Singh<]

Atheist

Initially you wrote

My experience of religious nutters are:

1. Equality of sexes (hardly - honor killings doesnt exactly qualify I'm afraid)

2. Sikh Doctors selling kidneys on the cheap (cant deny that- how humanitarian can you get)

3. Terrorists fighting for Theocratic states (Northern Ireland, Islamic Jihad, Sikhs etc etc)

4. The biggest reason for religious hatred is religion - Matthew Parris

5. Protesting outside theatres

Now you say

Human beings can be bad at the same time they can be of a religious conviction

Human beings can be bad at the same time they can be of a non-religious conviction

Not really a consistant argument is it?

[GushK]

Love, doesnt have the old baggage of fanaticism, selfishness, politics etc associated with religion.

Love is a single entity unto itself, it's unconditional.

Reiligion is NOT unconditional, its the opposite.

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Exactly as other have stated, your arguments conflict with each other.

In one case you say religion causes hatred, then you go on to say religious and non-religious people are bad.

Which is it?

religion can be bad?

or

people can be bad?

What is actually the case is that bad people use religion as a convenient excuse. If there was no religion, there'd be some other excuse.

Relgion is there as a guide to help you along your spiritual path. If you decide to do bad deeds in the name of you religion, unless the religion teaches you to be like that, it's not the religions fault.

All your issues of fanaticism, selfishness etc are HUMAN weaknesses and not attributable to Faith or Religion.

i.e Sikhi teaches you to rid youself of your own pride, ego and attachment and requests that you see everyone and eveything as an expression of Love (the univeral Truth) and as an expression of God.

Following these pillars a person is rid of those human weaknesses that cause discord between people.

True, some people don't follow it, but that's down to the person.

Rather than making sweeping generalizations, i'd advise you to look into your own heart, study some faiths and find out if you really have issues with the faith itself or specific people claiming to follow it....

[Atheist]

GushK, I like you post it has some teeth.

I agree with you fully here:

<<True, some people don't follow it, but that's down to the person>>

What I'm trying to convey is the whole thing about religious 'labelling' I mean as far as I can gather, your own Prime Guru stated there is no X or Y and then after a century or 2, human mentality being what it is creates a Z !

What's all that about ? Don't get me wrong you seem like someone with brains.

[gupt_paapi]

true say atheist.. but wot can we do? erasing religions wont help..

[Atheist]

Bottom line scenario -

A) Blow up humanity to save religion OR.....

B) Erase religion to save humanity

I say choose life