Confused About Something Gurbani

[N30S1NGH]

Meaning only by japping Gurmukh Naam (Gurmantar) can you be saved.

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So you are saying Gurmat Naam is only limited to Sikhs?

What Naam bhagat kabir japped? What Naam Bhagat Namdev japped? What Naam Baba Fared Japped? What Naam Bhagat Pipa, Bhagat Parladh, Bhagat Dharu japped?

Were they not Gurmat Naam?

Lets see if you say No then you are probably don't bow to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji with your full consceince just mere pakhand act because Sri Guru Granth Sahib have teachings of such great bhagats.

If you say "Yes" then Gurmat Naam is not restricted to Sikhs.

[Singh132]

I've gone over this argument many times. I believe that the Bhagats were Sikhs of Guru Nanak. There is even a Gurdwara Sahib in Ayodhya marking the spot the Bhagats met Guru Nanak. The Janam Sakhis also mention that the Bhagats became Sikhs of Guru Nanak.

To me, the following lines from Svaiyay M: 1 kay show that the Bhagats were Sikhs of Guru Nanak (and here the gun gaavai is clearly in refrence to Guru Nanak. Read the svaiyay yourself to confirm):

gux gwvY rivdwsu Bgqu jYdyv iqRlocn ]

gun gaavai ravidhaas bhagath jaidhaev thrilochan ||

His Glorious Praises are sung by the devotees Ravi Daas, Jai Dayv and Trilochan.

nwmw Bgqu kbIru sdw gwvih sm locn ]

naamaa bhagath kabeer sadhaa gaavehi sam lochan ||

The devotees Naam Dayv and Kabeer praise Him continually, knowing Him to be even-eyed.

Bgqu byix gux rvY shij Awqm rMgu mwxY ]

bhagath baen gun ravai sehaj aatham ra(n)g maanai ||

The devotee Baynee sings His Praises; He intuitively enjoys the ecstasy of the soul.

[>Bikramjit Singh<]

Namstang

1. Can you tell us what religion Bhagat Kabirji, Bhagat Namdevji and others followed?

2. Do you bow to the teachings of the Bhagats when you bow to the Guru Granth Sahib or do you bow to the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib in it's entirity?

[N30S1NGH]

Namstang

1. Can you tell us what religion Bhagat Kabirji, Bhagat Namdevji and others followed?

2. Do you bow to the teachings of the Bhagats when you bow to the Guru Granth Sahib or do you bow to the teachings of the Guru Granth Sahib in it's entirity?

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1. No religion. They followed their own Guru's and their teachings. So they were sikhs of their own Guru. So sikhi existed before Sri Guru NanaK Dev Ji so as Gurmat Naam.

2. I bow to each word in sri guru granth sahib ji, as they say there is "diversity" in Unity.

Singh132,

your beleif bhagats were sikhs of sri guru nanak dev ji , it's not from gurbani, bhatt savaie's does not prove anything..you got that from ratan singh bhangu text that they came back as panj pyares...same text which talks about usage of alchohol and bhang....if you accept that beleif that you should also accept usage of alchohol and bhang in battle times... how consistent.

But let's take it for one second that bhagats like- namdev, baba farid, kabir did came as panj pyares and took amrit and "Gurmat" Naam as you put it. Then does that mean they were not pooraie's in their previous lives because they did had Guru's. Are you saying sri guru granth sahib has bani of "Adhuuraie" Bhagats?

I have no problem accepting this bhagats may came back since reincarnation does not bound to one dharam. I have no problem with that . But I find it extremely offensive when people start beleiving because they were not pooraie in their previous lives or didn't had Gurmat Naam despite of them having guru's so they came back as Gursikhs in order to get Mukhti. They were already mukht..they came back as "karaks" in gursikh family to do updesh of sri dasmesh ji khalsa panth under hakum of Akaal Purkh.

By the way, Is that argument your bhasuria singh sabha's had in order to take out bhagata di bani?

[Singh132]

Namastang,

again with the sanatani bitterness and dirty debating.

>>>

By the way, Is that argument your bhasuria singh sabha's had in order to take out bhagata di bani?

>>>

I am certainly not a Bhasauria. I believe in Bhagat Bani 100%. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh used to read Bhagat Bani pothis during class time when he was in school.

I never said anything about Bhangu, so no need to bring up his theory. I believe that the Bhagats all met Guru Nanak in their lifetime and became his Sikhs. This is mentioned in janamsakhis and a Gurdwara exists where they came to meet Guru Sahib in Ayodhya.

[N30S1NGH]

Namastang,

again with the sanatani bitterness and dirty debating.

>>>

By the way, Is that argument your bhasuria singh sabha's had in order to take out bhagata di bani?

>>>

I am certainly not a Bhasauria.  I believe in Bhagat Bani 100%.  Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh used to read Bhagat Bani pothis during class time when he was in school.

I never said anything about Bhangu, so no need to bring up his theory.  I believe that the Bhagats all met Guru Nanak in their lifetime and became his Sikhs.  This is mentioned in janamsakhis and a Gurdwara exists where they came to meet Guru Sahib in Ayodhya.

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I appolize. Sorry got carried away. But I had enough of propaganda "oh bhagats were not poraaie or didn't had gurmat naam so they had to come back as Gursikhs in order to get Mukhti"

[GuruManeyoGranth]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

I understood the Tapoban Singhs' theory/understanding of the Bhagats being GurSikhs from at Khalsa Camp. This I found quite possible in relation to Bhagat Namdev, Fareed, Kabir, etc, and something that is a matter of historical debate.

However, on further thought, Gurbani also says that Bhagat Prehlaad and Bhagat Dhroo were saved as well and met Waheguroo due to their Bhagti and faith in Waheguroo. My understanding was that these Bhagats were around quite some time before, may be several hundred or even thousand(s) of years before Guroo Nanak Dev Jee came to this earth. Isn't the King Harnaakash a King in Hindu mythology?

I would appreciate your input on this Balpreet Singh Jee.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

Waheguroo

[Singh132]

From reading Bhattan Kay Svaiyay, I know that Guru Nanak has existed through the 4 jugs. He revealed Gurmat Naam openly only in Kaljug. I also know from Guru Sahib's bani that Dhru and Prehlad were saved by "Gurmat Naam". Not any naam but only Gurmat Naam. "Dhroo Prehlaad Bidar Dasee Sut, Gurmukh Naam Taray"

It seems to me (and I could be wrong) that Guru Nanak used to do kirpa on select bhagats and bless them with Gurmat Naam. Svaiyay M: 5 kay tell us "Siri Guru Sahib Sabh Oopar. Karee Kirpa Satjug jin Dhroo par. Sree Prehlaad Bhagat Udhreeang. Haso kamal mathay par dhareeang." This means that Siri Guru Sahib (this clearly means Guru Nanak since it is the Bhattan Day Saviayay and they are talking about glory of Guru Nanak), does kirpa on everyone. In Satjug he blessed Dhroo. He saved Prehlaad. He put his lotus hands on their forehead (I always take this to mean gave them naam, just like naam is give the same way now).

In the same bandh it says "Gur parsaad prabh paieeai, gur bin mukat na hoi" meaning only by Guru's grace is Vahiguru found and without a Guru no one is mukat." The very next line says "Guru Nanak Nikat basai banvaree" and goes on to talk about Guru Angad, Guru Amardas and Guru Ram Das. This is all the same bandh, not a new one.

It is clear that the Guru is only Guru Nanak. It is clear that without Guru Nanak no one can be saved. And it is clear that Guru Nanak himself did kirpa and gave naam to Dhroo and Prehlaad.

This isn't totally restricted to previous jugs. Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh writes about the prisoner in jail for life who wanted naam but knew he could never go to the Punj Pyaaray. Bhai Sahib asked him to do ardaas to Guru Nanak for the gift of naam. Bhai Sahib felt very sympathetic but could not reveal naam alone without the punj pyaaray. Soon after, that prisoner began to jap naam and Bhai Sahib was amazed that Guru Nanak had done kirpa and revealed it to him.

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Naam is indeed the highest thing in the Vedas, but it is not easily found. Like many of the world scriptures, that Naam is hidden and very difficult to achieve through the Vedas. Ancient beings of the elder ages may have been able to decipher the true Naam from them, but that is not to be in this age.

Gurbani is straight forward and meant for Kalyugi peoples. Vedas are like the ocean with one pearl in it where Gurbani is an ocean full of pearls. Which would be easier to find a pearl in?

[N30S1NGH]

Gurbani is straight forward and meant for Kalyugi peoples.  Vedas are like the ocean with one pearl in it where Gurbani is an ocean full of pearls.  Which would be easier to find a pearl in?

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Why Sikhs these days need to define sikhi by putting other religious scriptures down?

Example- Sun does not need show proof to others by putting others down. For Sun, reflection it gives speak for itself. It's a living example.

Sikhs becomes dandi-kalah and insecure when they find it's neccessary to put down other scriptures to prove Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji wisdom.