Arranged Marriage And Caste

[kurtas]

Well firstly no no , this topic isnt about me and about me getting married. Since everyone i know is getting either engaged or married i was thinking about marriage and how Arranged marriage system has effected sikhi way of life.

As we all know that in an Arranged marriage family members introduce kuri munda and then after the whole getting to know each other, family secrets etc two people get engaged, and familes come together. The main thing to note is that this usually happens with two people of same caste.

Soooo I would like everyone to discuss their views on whther or not they think that Arranged marriages have prevented various castes groups to come together. Also Whether in future, the way arranged marriages happen should be changed so that marriage should between a sikh couple rather than two sikhs of the same caste.

Also can Arranged marriage system be changed to lessen the caste based division in sikh community?

Should we get married to people of our caste and not go thorugh the whole hassle of getting to know one another and strengthen sikh community as a whole.

These are few things that would be good for discussion. Right now i am off to a party so u guys knock ur self out  :T:

145482[/snapback]

As someone who has married out of caste I would say yes!

However, if you go to India, particularly the cities, caste seems not an obstacle in arranging marriages.

Sometimes I think we are more backward here in the UK and hold on to caste more.

Two of the communities with are most guilty for promoting caste are Jatts and Tarkhans (Ramgharias). Between them they have created a sub-culture of biggotry where other castes are excluded.

What we probably need is a system in temples where marriages are arranged with no caste bar. Although I do not follow the Namdhari Cult at all, one thing that has to be commended to them is the eradication of catse amogst them.

Also stupid pro-caste websites like www.ramgarhiakom.com, www.jattworld.com, www.rajputsikh.com etc etc do not help either.

145510[/snapback]

Wow at last someone who has married out of "caste". So veerji did you encounter any problems ?

The Namdharis may have eradicated caste but they now like to marry within the Namdhari sect which means in effect they are no different to anyone else.

[SSM]

i thought that was a good thing, why would a namdhari marry someone not namdhari.

isnt it like asking why a muslim only marries a muslim.

[kurtas]

i thought that was a good thing, why would a namdhari marry someone not namdhari.

isnt it like asking why a muslim only marries a muslim.

145535[/snapback]

Because they claim to be Sikhs and follow the teachings of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. I suppose what they claim and what they practice are two different things.

[singh_comradz]

arranged marriage is alot more liberal in our generation. back in the day most people never really used to have a say who they would marry or even have contact with them prior to the marriage

[randip singh]

Everyone needs to chill out for a second. The second the word caste comes up everyone is quick to start waving their fingers and say "no-no".

Firstly we need to rember something when we look at the Caste system and its relationship with Sikhi. Guru Sahib rejected the caste system based on it giving and creating a hiarchy based on nothing more then Birth into a family. Guru Sahib rejected the notion that one is better simply because they are Jatt, or simply because they are Mistry, etc. After all, all our equal , so true worth can only be judged by ones actions.

As far as marraige goes, the whole caste thing, has a practical aspect to it. Back in India, and even here today, you can notice a difference in attitudes  between people of two different castes. Now dont get me wrong, many people growing up in the West, have adopted very similar attitudes now so this distinction of attitudes is rather slim, but often times this distinction still exists.

This is no different then the attitudes of people from different countires, races etc. The attitudes of people in the South differs a bit from the people of the North. The attitudes of people in the West differs from people in the East. As such when arranging a marriage families try to get two people with the most in common together, the caste of one another often is a good way to quickly get an understanding of what ones attittudes are like.

So although it's fare to say that in the West many of our attitudes are the same as we adopt and grow up here, thus making the Castes of one another an irrelavent thing, in its place we often put up other things, such as "the other person should be from such a country",  or from "such and such a background".

For the record I'm not saying marrying outside of ones caste will result in a failed marraige, what I am saying is that often times when looking for two people who are a-like, the whole caste thing serves its purpose.

145522[/snapback]

Without going into my caste, I disagree about attitudes of different castes.

My family is a land owning farming family that applies it hand to business or trade when it suits it. I have met people from Jatt, Tarkhan, Khatri, Chamar, Arora, Saini, Lubana, Bhatra etc etc all with SAME attitude as our family...........what is the common denominator is our rural background and our unshakable alliegance to Sikhi.

At the same time I have met Jatt, Tarkhan, Khatri, Chamar, Arora, Saini, Lubana, Bhatra etc etc all with a DIFFERENT attitude as our family.

Infact there is a different attitude between me and my Tya's sons. They are very meek, wheras I am very forthright. I am tall and well built, wheras they are quite thin and small. I have however, encoountered my own Paindoo's who are spitting images of me.

Remember, the Panj Pyarey was not dominated by any one caste, and nor has Sikhism. Infact it has been dominated by usually the poorest and most humblest viz a viz Jassa Singh Ahluwalia (family ofwine distillers), Maharaja Ranjit Singh (family of cattle thieves) etc etc.

[randip singh]

Wow at last someone who has married out of "caste". So veerji did you encounter any problems ?

145529[/snapback]

I forced the issue simple as that. I wouldn't take no as an answer from my family or theirs. We were backed up by pious Sikhs too.

The Namdharis may have eradicated caste but they now like to marry within the Namdhari sect which means in effect they are no different to anyone else.

145529[/snapback]

True.

Never thought of that.

[TeraRoop11]

There's a reason for marrying within one's own religious sect - it's different from marrying within 'one's own caste'.

[Shinda]

Without going into my caste, I disagree about attitudes of different castes.

145541[/snapback]

Randip Singh, your right in that just because you come from a different caste that doesn't mean you'll have a different attitude with someone else. After all there are various factors which contribute to this.

In general people of a common up bringing will share similar traits and attitudes, and my whole point is that often times ones caste can give indiviauls a general if not stereotypical, overview of what ones upbrining was like, and make it possible to get a hyptothetical snapshot or guess at how that person may now be. This does not in no way mean that one is forced to be that way, since like I said, various other things contribute.

So the fact that people marry people of similar caste-lineage as them is not anti gurmat when the families are just looking towards marrying families they feel they can better relate with. Same goes when families give preference to people of similar districts over one another, or how families try to get people of a similar occupation or level of education together.

It doesn't mean that going against any these makes a marriage less likely or more likely to fail or succeed, just means that people are trying to find people they can relate better with.

Simply put two families who share similar backgrounds will have more in common then two families who come from complete polar opposites. This does not apply just with caste, but with anything such as schooling, place of upbringing etc.

[Balait_da_Sher]

Thank you for the replies, as most people realised this was not a topic about caste. It was the relationship that exists between arranged marriages and caste system. Parents only look for someone from the same caste, possibally because they have easier access to the family's background, relatives who know the other family etc and also because of common traditions that exist in one's caste.

The main thing i wanted to say was that as somone suggested if Gurdwara started arranging the marriages or the arranged mariage system was changed so that caste was not a factor in the decision then caste based divison can become less and less.

My belief is that caste in sikh community has only flourished because of the Arranged marriage.

[amankaur]

jus replying to balait da sher's topic, i got nothing against arranged marriages cus majority of my cuzins, sisters have had arranged marriages and they all are eva so happy thanx to waheguru ji

i believe that if you are going to have a arranged marriage then you should be able to marry your partner regardless the caste, cus i personaly don't believe in the caste system and i agree with what you said we should make our sikhi stronger and unite it so therefore by marrying other castes this will only be possible, cus end of the day we are all sikhs whether you are a jatt, tarkhan etc

this caste thing will be hard to break, but one day it will happen and i pray and hope i'll be there to see it. because of this caste thing people aren't allowed to marry other caste's therefore this leaves many people with broken hearts only because of caste gets in the way its jus simply pathetic. end of day if 1 is to find someone of another caste why should it matter its not like they want to marry out of their religion hunna, they want to marry another fellow sikh person!

if i said anything wrong then i apologise but from where im sat i think iv spoken what i feel whether people agree or not.