Sikh/white Couple

[crayzy]

double post coz its not letting me edit

his parents need to realise that what theyre doing is vaidrogi (creating enmity/derogatory distinction) - and is against Sikhism

[Vahejeo]

In my opinion, forgive me for not agreeing with everyone in this thread, but I feel that mixed marriages are not a good idea. There is really no plus in it because you are getting together based on feelings that you had for each other, otherwise known as lust. This is not the way of Sikhi. The normal way Sikh marriages are done is through arranging and so on, not love marriages. Esp not love marriages outside of race. This is not a question about what Sikhism says. Sikhism says to respect everyone regardless of their race, which is great, BUT it doesn't say that you respect them so much that you marry that person and have kids. That is wrong because it creates a lot of problems for the people involved and esp their families. I totally agree with boys parents because there is no positive in this sort of arrangement not to mention the haertache the boy's parents must feel because he is going out of their race to marry. Sikhi does not advocate girlfriend/boyfriend relationships in general and then on top of that love marriages, it's wrong. Sikhism says to respect the human race, but not to go and marry others based on affection.

Buk Chuk the Khima

[Bhajneet]

A post to Janet and the Sangat (the group of people here, you can think audience if you like).

There’s a fine line between helping someone and butting in (ahem the whole bit about lust/adultery… I mean what were you thinking?).

And I’d like to give my two cents. A lot of people (AKA 99.999%) believe that you shouldn't go into love marriages or marry outside the “brown people” (I say this, because many of them allow Sikh-Hindu marriages but not Sikh-Caucasian). Now obviously Sikhism (the religion he practices, I’m sure you knew that, but just in case...) is against lust. Wanting someone’s body, I mean in general all of society agrees on this point. But according to me Sikhi is not against love, I’m sure God was all for love (esp. seeing as he wants us to love him).

If what you feel is to be love (and considering you're about to change religions for it, I’m sure it is) then by all means go ahead and try to marry him (which I hope you still are), don’t mind some of the people here, it’s mainly a huge republican/conservative crowd. Many have forgotten that Sikhism is open-minded, that the religion wouldn't have existed unless there were some people who were open-minded and ready to change.

The whole, love-marriage thing, its not written in bani (Sikh scripture) or anything, it's an INDIAN tradition, not Sikhism. So stop that now.

Now you're having problems with his parents, makes sense, a lot of Indian parents are very strict/ignorant/narrow-minded/etc. They do what tradition has asked and not what religion dictates for them.

You also want to learn the culture, totally understandable, where else to start? I agree with the post above, Mr. Sikhnet knows a ton; I’m sure he could help you a lot, or perhaps the teenage Sikh community. Most of us are 2nd-generation like you’re hopeful-husband-to-be; therefore we understand both cultures quite well. If you could tell us perhaps a bit more about where you live, maybe you could find one of us, or heck go outside, we're not that big a population, but I’m sure you'll find someone.

Also to the sangat, remember we're not missionaries, we don’t believe in converting people into Sikhism (I may be wrong... but I believe strongly that I understood your intentions correctly). We believe that another should be INSPIRED to become a Sikh. She wants to learn about the culture first, so let’s take it one step at a time. If she doesn't want to then she doesn't have to. Just another fine-line I’m talking about.

Also, realize that she may not understand all of the jargon being typed in here, be more respectful about your surroundings in the future. (Yes, I understand that its second-habit and that we may not catch it (I’m sure I missed some), but at least try)

And in the future, please don’t post gurbani that is irrelevant to the material on hand. This whole thread disturbed me enough to bring me back outta hibernation.

[crayzy]

In my opinion, forgive me for not agreeing with everyone in this thread, but I feel that mixed marriages are not a good idea.  There is really no plus in it because you are getting together based on feelings that you had for each other, otherwise known as lust.

sorry...but how do you know its lust, what has anyone said that makes you think they arent in love.

The normal way Sikh marriages are done is through arranging and so on, not love marriages.  Esp not love marriages outside of race.  This is not a question about what Sikhism says.

lies - this is an indian tradition and has nothing to do with Sikhism. The only thing Sikhism says about marriage is that it constitutes one person in two bodies.

Sikhism says to respect everyone regardless of their race, which is great, BUT it doesn't say that you respect them so much that you marry that person and have kids.

sorry for this, but thats wrong - Sikhs are not meant to acknowledge andy distinction based on cast or creed.

That is wrong because it creates a lot of problems for the people involved and esp their families.  I totally agree with boys parents because there is no positive in this sort of arrangement not to mention the haertache the boy's parents must feel because he is going out of their race to marry.

since when were Sikhs racist

Sikhi does not advocate girlfriend/boyfriend relationships in general and then on top of that love marriages, it's wrong. 

lies. Sikhi says nothing of the sort. Please stop inventing this vaidrogi. None of this information is useful. Bottom line - what his parents are doing is agiainst Sikhi. We cant do anything about that - the most you can do is tell him to tell them that what they are doing is against Sikhism.

I agree with going to www.mrsikhnet.com for help - he probably knows how to handle this better than most...specially as people here seem to cling to old traditions that have nothing to do with the religion.

Buk Chuk the Khima

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[taboo]

Hey Janet, sorry to hear about whats going on. what you have mentioned is too common a story tht happens in the indian culture as a whole. its pathetic.

the indian culture is such that, kids are brought NEVER to disrespect their parents.

we are often told that decisions will be made for us when the time is right.

these parents, aspire to give their children everything and that includes finding the right person for them to marry. if you do fall in love with another race or caste, often you are almost disowned untill you give them up. some mothers even threaten to kill themselves.

indian parents lack faith and respect in their own children, this is why they cannot accept the choices that the children make.

think about it, afterall. it is us who is going to live with our partners for the next 50 years or so, so why cant we have a say in it?

it is all in your boyfriends hands to make them agree, im not saying that he should leave them for you, but he has to make them understand why he is in love with you and give them a chance to see who you are (have you met them yet?)

its sad that so many hearts get broken carelessly because of our culture.

take care.

[Vahejeo]

This is to the other desis in this thread, not the original poster, I think that when it comes to giving others advice we tell others to be open minded but if someone were to ask you if you as a parent would allow your own child to marry someone out of their race most would say no. But when speaking to others, its always "keep an open mind", "its all good". Its not all good, because I know of people who came from Sikh families who went outside their race for marriage and they lost respect and people avoided them because they don't want their own children to think this sort of behavior is ok. And this being a youth forum, the Sikh youth on this forum should not get the idea that marriage outside of your race is ok. It sends the wrong message. If you don't agree with me that's fine, breaking down my post and saying that each idea is wrong is not fair either. Everyone is allowed to their opinion. Tradition is respected, if you do your own thing that is not respected.

Gurfateh Ji

[Lionchild]

omfg... i can't believe some of the replies that have been posted...

when you post a request for help, your supposed to get help, not a disgusting assumptions and accusastions.

Janet, please overlook some of these foolish posts and look ask some of the other senior members like simmel tree.

anyways, lets talk on MSN

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Please seek the consel of Sikhnet. Many have been or may be in situations that are similar to yours.

[Surajsingh]

Question:

Well I`m from Spanish culture, and would like to marry a guy that is Punjabi because I really like the culture. I find that Punjabis are have moral values and care about their families, just as in my culture, and are religious. I`m a very decent girl, from a good family. My question is: Would it be a problem for me to marry a guy that is Punjabi because i`m Spanish? What are my chances?

Dr Punjab's Response:

I am glad to hear that you embrace the Punjabi culture. The answer to your question cannot be clear-cut since there are many factors which can influence interracial and intercultural marriages and relationships:

1) Location. If you are living in the Punjab state, it may be more difficult for you to start a relationship with a Punjabi man. Because interracial marriages are less common there, it may be less accepted by the community as well. However, if you are living in a more diverse environment (such as the UK or the United States), interracial marriages are more common and are therefore more accepted by the community.

2) Religion and Culture. Every person has their own set of religious principles. Some Punjabi men are very rigid and would only like to marry someone of the same faith and culture. Others, however, are more flexible and are willing to marry outside of their religion and culture. This all depends on the particular person and can vary.

3) Family. In Punjabi culture, the opinions and views of family members are valued and respected. You are a decent, intelligent woman who comes from a respectable, good family. This definitely works in your favor. If you show that you will maintain this respect towards your family and will respect his family, your chances of marrying a Punjabi man are greatly improved. But be aware: Punjabi families have a great deal of influence on marriages and relationships. Some Punjabi families will only want their family members to marry Punjabis, and others will be more open to different cultures and religions. Again, this all depends on the family views and can have an influence on the Punjabi man.

If you would really like to marry a Punjabi man, the best thing for you to do is really learn more about the culture, religions, language, customs, etc. This will give you a greater understanding of how the community functions and what the community views are in your area. When meeting a Punjabi, be respectful and curious. If you meet a Punjabi man who you are attracted to, show him that you are from a good family and are a decent, respectable person. Hopefully, this man will respect you and recognize your inner-beauty. Perhaps your relationship will blossom into love. Once this occurs, you will find that love sees no color and marriage with a Punjabi man will definitely be possible.

http://www.punjabonline.com/servlet/commun...isplay&Param=26

Mod Comment : Please Dont reply to the question posted in this post, stick to the original topic please.

[buddasingh]

This is to the other desis in this thread, not the original poster, I think that when it comes to giving others advice we tell others to be open minded but if someone were to ask you if you as a parent would allow your own child to marry someone out of their race most would say no.  But when speaking to others, its always "keep an open mind", "its all good".  Its not all good, because I know of people who came from Sikh families who went outside their race for marriage and they lost respect and people avoided them because they don't want their own children to think this sort of behavior is ok.  And this being a youth forum, the Sikh youth on this forum should not get the idea that marriage outside of your race is ok.  It sends the wrong message.  If you don't agree with me that's fine, breaking down my post and saying that each idea is wrong is not fair either.  Everyone is allowed to their opinion.  Tradition is respected, if you do your own thing that is not respected. 

Gurfateh Ji

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Janet, I am sorry you have to read racist hatred such as the above. The "only my opinion" tone" or "most think this way" does not make it right or less racist. This is HATRED nothing less.

Vahejeo and others who think they are some puritan original brown race... do you really think that "punjabi brown" is a race? Would we allow people to spew such hatred against brown or black people here? If not then why should we allow such idiotic judgment of white people?

And what in the world does lust have to do with it? Anyone compared modern day brown "sikhs" in punjab to say white Sikhs in New Mexico? I have no special admiration for Yogi Bhajan, but if I give my head for sikhi the sikhs I think about are more likely a large percentage of those fair skinned people in New Mexico and a far smaller percentage of people in the punjab.

I personally don't beleive in commonly held western conceptions such as "falling in love". But I would never suggest that non-arranged marriages are based on lust. What a dimwitted view of the world. Yours is not respect or tradition. It is ignorance.

To those amazing Khalsa's who have enriched sikhi by coming to it from the outside like Guru Gobind Singh Ji's panj piare, and who I envy for thier love for sikhi, I am so sorry for each time you encounter this kind of racism. Know that there are some punjabi brothers and sisters who see the beauty of their Guruji in your devotion.