Hell?

[Uk_Singh24]

wjkk wjkf

does anyone know sikhis views on hell????

iv heard of Bhai Rama Singhs writings but this just all confusd me!!! help please

[Lion(LK)King]

You are in hell whilst beign alive, if without Gurbani... just like I am.. And are in Satyug if youre heart is merged with Gurbani, GurShabad, SajnaRa...

[singh_khalsa]

there are many references in gurbani to a real hell where evil sinners are punished. there has been an argument recently about some people ignoring these tuks from gurbani and taking other tuks to follow their view. yes hell and heavn can be on this earth and there is also a physical one in the afterlife. ontop of this bhai randhir singh has written a whole book about it. bhai rama singh had personal experienc of hell. so 2 great gursikhs telling us (would they lie?) and written in gurbani many times... make your own decision.

[Lion(LK)King]

Eh, no-one is saying that anyone is lying,do remember tha bhai Rama Singh ji did not have a personal experience but it was a DREAM. He himself writes it clearly (the pages were even scanned by Mehtab Singh Ji) where he clearly says it was a terrifying DREAM. Yes it did get him to change his jeevan, bt that doesn't change the fact thta it was a dream.

Gurbani cleary says that true heel and haven is the state oft he mine. You coud live in a palace (i.e. materialistic heave) yet be in nark, in youdr mind not ahving any compassion, and devotion for the poor hungy man sitting outside your palace.

[kds1980]

Is there a hell or heaven?

(Source: "Introduction to Sikhism" , Author: Dr. Gobind Singh Mansukhani)

Man is judged according to his actions. If he has done evil deeds, he goes into lower forms of life; if he has done noble deeds, he gets a human life again. The idea of hell and heaven is a mere hypothesis. The picture of hell as a place of varied and terrible tortures is symbolic:

"There is a stream of fire from which comes poisnous flames. There is none else there except the self. The waves of the ocean of fire are aflame. And the sinners are burning in them." (A.G. p 1026)

Shaikh Farid tells us that hell is a burning lake resounding with terrible cries. It may be added that the result of a sinful life is its adverse effect on character from which ultimately comes suffering and torment. In short, to be in hell is to be out of the presence of God.

Similarly there is no actual place called heaven. Sikhism does not regard the winning of a place in heaven as a worthy object. The old Indian concept of heaven is of a beautiful place providing all sorts of comforts and luxuries. The devotee is neither afraid of hell nor anxious to go to heaven. In a way, hell and heaven are conditions of mind. The virtuous man is happy and contented, as if he is living in heaven.

The concept of hell and heaven is just a rough illustration for clarifying the doctrine of Karma. Hell and heaven refer to evil or good stages of life repectively and they can be lived here and now in our earthly existence. According to Guru Arjan Dev Ji, "Whereever the praises of God are sung, there verily is heaven." Likewise, the society of the wicked is a hell. The condition of an average man is described thus: "Like birds that flock in the evening on a tree, flutter with pleasure and pain, scan the skies morning and evening, wandering everywhere, driven by hunger. So the soul of man wanders and suffers on earth." The worldly man eats, enjoys and sleeps, unmindful of the higher things of life. He is free, and perhaps, may choose wrongly.

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Q: Christians always talk about going to heaven or hell, what does Sikhism say about it?

A: Christians believe that God lives in heaven and Christians always talk about going to heaven. First of all, salvation is not reached just by entering in heaven. Salvation is reached by merging in the Holy Spirit. Salvation is not reached by just talking and doing good deeds, it is reached by meditating on God, and living the life by renouncing lust, greed, anger, emotional attachment and egotistical pride. ?As long as the mind is filled with the desire for heaven, he does not reach God? (Guru Granth Sahib 325). The desire should be to meet God, not to go to heaven. Heaven and Hell are not created to live but to award and punish. Your good deeds will be paid off in heaven, your bad deeds in hell; you will then take birth again until you become One with God.

source: http://www.realsikhism.com/faq/heavenorhell.html

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The mission of the life of a Sikh is not to get a ticket into Heaven after death. While living, one should aim to realize the Lord vibrating everywhere in the universe and in every living being. Living according to the Will of the Lord and singing His virtues during the earthly life is living in Heaven.

Ignoring Him and suffering from vices, such as ego, anger, lust, greed, etc., is living in Hell. The Guru said that there is no place called Heaven or Hell where people are destined to go after they leave the world.

All of us have experienced this and hence we can learn a lesson, ?Love the Lord, the Father-Mother of all humanity, the way we love our dad and mom. All people are His/Her children; love them as your brothers and sisters.? If we practice this lesson, there will be peace all over the earth, and it will become like Heaven we are desirous of getting into after our death.

Hating anyone because of his/her faith, race, color, caste, nationality, status, etc. displeases our common Creator, God. Forcing your faith on the weak is a great sin. Therefore, those who tease, torture, or kill people because of these differences will ever suffer in the worst hell. Those who help the weak and needy enjoy heavenly peace and pleasure here and hereafter. That is why Guru Nanak advised people to pray everyday, ?God! In Thy Name, bless the whole of humanity.?

The definitions given by different faiths do not disagree with any of the above descriptions of God. Other qualities of God generally accepted are that He is omnipresent, incomprehensible, immanent and transcendent. Further, God has been described as gracious, kind and caring for all creation. Some also believe that God created eternal Heaven for the comfort of faithful people after their death; they also believe in Hell where all non-believers who ignore His commandments will suffer forever.

As I said earlier, the mission of the life of a Sikh is not to get into Heaven after death. While living, one should aim to realize the Lord vibrating everywhere in the universe and in every living being. Living according to the Will of the Lord and singing His virtues during the earthly life is living in Heaven.

Ignoring Him and suffering from vices, such as ego, anger, lust, greed, etc., is living in Hell. The Guru preached that there is no place called Heaven or Hell where people are destined to go after they leave the world.

A Sikh is not to worship any heavenly body such as the sun or moon, or images, pictures, or paintings of gods, not even of their own Gurus.

Guru Nanak?s view is that God is not sectarian. The Guru disagreed with the Muslim belief that God, Allah, because of the intercession of the prophet Mohammed would welcome Muslims into Bahisht (heaven) and throw Kafirs (non-Muslims) into the fire of Dozakh (hell). In the same way, he disagreed with the Hindu idea that God, Bhagwan, would admit only high-caste Hindus to heaven and throw the rest into hell. Furthermore, the Guru rejected the idea that there were many gods, all of who must be wooed with gifts of food and sacrifices of animals or humans. According to Sikhism, all people are loved by God and are equally able to realize Him.

(Guru Granth, p. 6 )

The man-assumed heaven and hell are not particular places beyond our earth. The place where we love God and sing His virtues is actually the heaven, the place where one receives the blessings of God. A person who fails to love God actually lives in Hell on this very earth.

The belief of each religious group that they alone are entitled to go to heaven and the followers of all other faiths will go to hell, was rejected by Guru Nanak.

One can imagine how such thoughts touched the traditional people. The Brahmans had preached for hundreds of years that among the Hindus they were the superior most human beings. The fighters, called Kashatryas, were placed next to them and the third position was given to the business community. People serving the three higher castes were considered Sudras, the low caste, hence were believed unfit for heaven. According to the Brahmans, all non-Hindus along with the lower castes were destined for hell. Similarly, the Muslims considered Bahisht (heaven) to be reserved for them alone. All non-Muslims were kafirs destined for Dozakh (hell).

However, the Guru denied that beyond this earth, somewhere else in the universe, there existed any particular places known as either heaven or hell to which our souls were headed. The reason most of us believe in religion is that after death we want to get admission to heaven and are frightened of being thrown into hell. The Guru said the goal of human life is not qualifying for admission in a non-existent heaven or being scared of a mythological hell. A person is in hell when he ignores the presence of God within him and suffers from ego, hate, lust or anger. He enjoys the bliss of heaven when he sings the virtues of God and loves His children, the human beings.

(Guru Granth, p. 6 )

The Guru decried the old Brahmanical rituals believed to help a man reach heaven. He said that adopting the creed of fake purity (something gets polluted if seen or touched by a low caste person), abandoning the family life for meditation, and reading scriptures to grasp the knowledge and intelligence therein, are of little use for realizing God. The path for realization of the goal of life is obedience to the Will of the Lord.

Guru Granth, p. 8 )

It means we will be judged by our deeds and not by our beliefs. Anyone (a Hindu, a Muslim or a person of any other faith, a low caste, a rich person, a poor person, a scholar, or an illiterate, man or woman) who loves God can realize Him. In other words, God is nobody?s private inheritance; nobody can claim a franchise on Him. Forcing and torturing the weak to change their faith and method of worship is anti-God. It is like threatening a person to force him to address his/her father as ?Dad? and not as ?Papa?. Such actions are disapproved of by God.

A person, regardless of his caste, faith, or social status, who said that God lives in all human beings, was accepted by the Guru to be a holy human. A close friend of Guru Nanak of his childhood age was Mardana, a Muslim, born in a so-called low caste. He was addressed as Bhai (brother) by Guru Nanak. The hymns of more than two dozen devotees of God (Bhagats) from different religions and speaking different languages were included in the Holy scripture, the Guru Granth Sahib, to guide the life of the seekers of Truth.

The followers of the major world religions claim: ?My religion is the only true faith; people believing in any other faith will go to hell. Conversion of non-members to my faith will ?save? them. God is pleased with such efforts of the believers. In reward I will get a seat in heaven for ?saving? the heathen.?

(Bhai Gurdas, // 1-33 )

The Guru cleared this big ignorance of the traditional thinkers. He stated that there was no place called heaven nor any called hell where, after death, people will go for eternity. Gurbani explains that living according to the Will of the Lord, keeping Him always in mind and heart and singing His Virtues, is being in heaven. Hell is suffering from ego, lust, greed, anger, jealousy, slander, etc.

source: http://www.iidb.org/vbb/archive/index.php/t-91420.html

_________________

Prayer = TALKING to God, Meditation/Simran = LISTENING to God !

Have a happy, healthy & holy life !

"WAHEGURU" naam jahaaz hai, charre so utre paar !

[WGJKKWGJKF]

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

Thanks Kds1980.

Thats made things alot more clearer to me, coz i always keep and getting mixed up before.

WAHEGURU JI KA KHALSA WAHEGURU JI KI FATEH

[singh_khalsa]

well we all agree that heaven and hell can be on earth so you dont have to try and proove that. some gurbani tuks...

pwpIAw no n dyeI iQru rhix cuix nrk Goir cwilAnu ]

paapeeaa no n dhaeee thhir rehan chun narak ghor chaalian ||

He does not give the sinners any stability or place of rest; He consigns them to the depths of hell.

Brmy BUlw duKu Gxo jmu mwir krY Kulhwnu ]

bharamae bhoolaa dhukh ghano jam maar karai khulehaan ||

They wander lost and confused, deceived by doubt, suffering in terrible pain. The Messenger of Death shall beat them to a pulp.

jw kI thl jmdUq ibdwry ]2]

jaa kee ttehal jamadhooth bidhaarae ||2||

When I serve Him, the Messenger of Death is chased away. ||2||

jmdUq mhw BieAwn ]

jamadhooth mehaa bhaeiaan ||

The Messenger of Death is dreadful and horrible.

jmdUqI hY hyirAw duK hI mih pcw ]

jamadhoothee hai haeriaa dhukh hee mehi pachaa ||

The Messenger of Death sees him, and he rots away in pain.

ieku duKu skqvwr jmdUq ]

eik dhukh sakathavaar jamadhooth ||

Another pain is the attack of the Messenger of Death

so yes hell is on earth, and in reincarnating, but there is also a physical suffering by the messeger of death in the afterlife as gurbani says above, ANOTHER pain.

of course gursikhs are not afraid of hell or yearn for heaven, they just want to reach waheguru! but doesnt mean we can say hell and heaven doesnt exist, that way we are disagreeing with truth told by the guru and gursikhs like bhai randhir singh who have written a whole book about this topic.

[Lion(LK)King]

Daas shall endevious to try to respond to some of the above mentioend quotes -

"pwpIAw no n dyeI iQru rhix cuix nrk Goir cwilAnu ]

paapeeaa no n dhaeee thhir rehan chun narak ghor chaalian ||

He does not give the sinners any stability or place of rest; He consigns them to the depths of hell."

Atmak adolta, is the deapest hell of them all, is it not?

It does nto eman he litterally has a place where he's frying sinners, lol.

"Brmy BUlw duKu Gxo jmu mwir krY Kulhwnu ]

bharamae bhoolaa dhukh ghano jam maar karai khulehaan ||

They wander lost and confused, deceived by doubt, suffering in terrible pain. The Messenger of Death shall beat them to a pulp."

Again it's the same thing about DOUBT, dubida, duality. To a Sikh being stuck in duality is terrible pain.

jyhVw mnu`K Awpxy (loBI) mn dy ip`Cy qurdw hY auh k`uiqAW vWg (burkI burkI vwsqy dr dr qy ^uAwr huMdw) hY, auh sdw mwieAw vwlI dOV-B`j hI krdw hY (ieQoN qk inGrdw hY ik) gurU dI inMidAw ivc hr vyly ^uAwr huMdw hY [

Seems more like the concept of karma, where the person who runs after maya - ultimately punishing himself, by wasting human life on runnign after maya

"jw kI thl jmdUq ibdwry ]2]

jaa kee ttehal jamadhooth bidhaarae ||2||

When I serve Him, the Messenger of Death is chased away. ||2||"

hy BweI ! (auhI hn myry im`qr) ijnHW dw bcn suxidAW swry suK pRwpq ho jWdy hn, ijnHW dI thl kIiqAW jmdUq (BI) nws ho jWdy hn [2[

Prof Sahib uses the word "naas", i.e are ruined - is Dharmraja litterally ruined, or are we speaking in metaphors here?Perhaps this Dharmraja cannot come close to Gurmukhs, is what is meant-

tatti Vai na lagei Parbrahm Sharanai - seems like the concept of karma, serve humanity, serve Guru ji, serve the less forunate, have prem for the infinite- in that way no dharmraja will even dare to come close to you... not an iote of doubt is left in the true devotees.

Please read Prof Sahib Singh Ji's explainations from Gurbani as they are incredible.

srigranth.org

gurugranthdarpan.com :lol:

Bhull chukk maaf

[singh_khalsa]

AgY jmkwlu lyKw lyvY ijau iql GwxI pIVwiedw ]9]

agai jamakaal laekhaa laevai jio thil ghaanee peerraaeidhaa ||9||

In the world hereafter, the Messenger of Death calls him to account, and crushes him like sesame seeds in the oil-press. ||9||

well lion(LK)Kingji, gurbani refers to hell, heaven, dharamrai, jamdhoots many times..

and also have you heard of bhai randhir singh ji? and read undithi duniyaa? the book will explain better then i can.

[Lion(LK)King]

No i have not read Bhai Randhir Singh's book, btu I have read Bhai Rama Singh Ji's book.

Okay, let's for a minute assume there is a hell in Sikhi. THen which one is it, hell/narq, or reincarnation?

If it is narq like you try to preview it, surely ithe shabad above cannot be a description of it, since according to Gurmat it is the jyot that leaves the body, how can the jyot suffer?

To most Gurmukhs, beign away from Gurbani will be like being crushed :lol: .

Gurdev pita jeeyo says -

ijau pRwxI jl ibnu hY mrqw iqau isKu gur ibnu mir jweI ]15]

jio praanee jal bin hai marathaa thio sikh gur bin mar jaaee ||15||

Just as the mortal dies without water, so does the Sikh die without the Guru. ||15||

Will a Sikh literally die without Shabad Guru, i.e. in physical form?

No. A Sikh will, like any other mortal live a physical life. He will not die physicall, but SPIRITUALLY, he will be living like any other ignorant person.

Bhai Gurdas jeeyo mentions that Guru Nanak Dev jee came in a period of PITCH DARKNESS. Guru Sahib mentions -

mhlw 2 ]

jy sau cMdw augvih sUrj cVih hjwr ]

eyqy cwnx hoidAW gur ibnu Gor AMDwr ]2]

jae so cha(n)dhaa ougavehi sooraj charrehi hajaar ||

mehalaa 2 ||

jae so cha(n)dhaa ougavehi sooraj charrehi hajaar ||

eaethae chaanan hodhiaaa(n) gur bin ghor a(n)dhhaar ||2||

Second Mehl:

If a hundred moons were to rise, and a thousand suns appeared,

even with such light, there would still be pitch darkness without the Guru. ||2||

Was there really pitch Darkness in Guru sahib's time? In the above Shabad, fi there are hundreds of moosn & thousands of suns - will there be darkness+ No Physically it's all going to be light. Everything will be lighted up. But will the physical light make any difference spiritually to the huamn being (many claim that the Sun is God) so will thousands of sun help you spiritually? No, just like the people during GUru Nanak Dev Ji's time where in spiritual pitch darkness, one who ignores Vaheguru is in the same way in Pitch Darkness, in the spiritual sense. Just like a Sikh will die, spiritually, i.e lose his good karms etc, by leaving Vaheguru, stopping doing good karms.. Any human being will die spiritually without the pyaar of (Param)atma, the "paramKana" (the one without doubt)

Gurbani mentions a lot of metaphors. I do not claim to know any of these, or be a scholar of Gurbani, but the udnerstanding that Guru Sahib has give daas, daas has shared. I might be wrong.. But personally it seems like Gurbani is filled with spiritual metaphors, and double-meanings of words, that need to be considered, as Gurbani is written for a reason, and very letter in Guru Sahib having a reason..

Bhull chukk maaf