Why Womens/females Dont Have Rights To Give Amrit Or Become Punj Pyaree/pyari

[Lionchild]

also friends,

let's look at other faiths which had female "devtis", etc. Hinduism has many women devtis, sheraan waali mata, vaishno devi, etc. Did any of these women do anything for women's rights? No.

If we look att all women's rights movements in the world they have been led by women. Have any been led by men, no.

Wouldn't it be amazing if a man led the push for women's rights? Yes, Sri Guru nanak Dev ji did. From a sikh viewpoint as lion king pointed out, guru is baani, but for non-sikhs where this answer is not good enough well here...Sikhi actually had a MAN step up for women! How revolutionary is that?!

The muslims have prophet mohammad, christians have Jesus, Jews have Moses, Buddhists have Buddha. Did any of these people fight for women's rights, No.

Our gurus were human in form but our guru is Baani or the word of God. Gurbaani says that the water is restrainied by the pitcher and the mind is restrained by spiritual wisdom, without the true guru, there is no spiritual wisdom. Well waht spiritual wisdom did guru sahib give thsi world:

ਭੰਡਿ ਜੰਮੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਨਿੰਮੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਮੰਗਣੁ ਵੀਆਹੁ ॥

ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੋਵੈ ਦੋਸਤੀ ਭੰਡਹੁ ਚਲੈ ਰਾਹੁ ॥

ਭੰਡੁ ਮੁਆ ਭੰਡੁ ਭਾਲੀਐ ਭੰਡਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਬੰਧਾਨੁ ॥

ਸੋ ਕਿਉ ਮੰਦਾ ਆਖੀਐ ਜਿਤੁ ਜੰਮਹਿ ਰਾਜਾਨ ॥

ਭੰਡਹੁ ਹੀ ਭੰਡੁ ਊਪਜੈ ਭੰਡੈ ਬਾਝੁ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥

How powerful is that?

Aurangzeb asked sri guru Teg bahadur ji to perform a miracle to show that he was a holy man. Guru sahib said he doesn't need to do magic tricks to preserve his honor, as his honor was preserved by God. God is the bestower of honor not mortal kings. Now, did we need to have women gurus to show the world sikhi's stand on women? Are we questioning our guru sahib? Are we, like aurangzeb asking for something to prove guru sahib's stance? well if we do need women gurus to believe the guru's giaan about women then look no further as gurgaddi was bestowed upon guru granth and guru panth khalsa, which has women. :lol: sikhi has all the answers no matter from what angle we look at it.

Many prophets have roamed this earth, but only guru sahib uttered the above mentioned words in the defense of women and we really need to think very hard about them.

thats exactly my point! u made a good point when u said that we need to discuss these issues so that they dont become ritual, i just had to point out the apparent role of dear (LOL !!!! I CRACK MYSELF UP) amrik revenge in this, anyway i think that the only way u can call urself a believer of sikhi is if u believe what Guru ji says, if one believes that the teachings of Guru ji are soemthing other than what they preached then we are in a sense calling our Guru ji a hypocrite. . all answers can be obtained from Guru Granth Sahib ji, nowhere does Guru ji say that women cant preform teh same seva men can. straight up-if u belive in your Guru, you agree with their words. this is why in my previous posts i was insisting that jai tegang stop twisting the teachings of our Gurus b/c it steers ppl away from the path...most ppl posting on here are guys so maybe some might not understand why..its like this: think of a relationship to a parent, it's a type of love that cant be experienced in any other worldly relationship we have...we know that if we obey them they'll be happy, give us more things and, most importantly, provide us with unconditional love. but lets say u have a sibling who is of the same age, you work sooo hard to please ur parent, and you yearn for their love but in return that parent gives the other sibling more priveliges-is that the type of parenting our mata, pita Guru Gobind Singh ji provides us? i didnt think so. it is so ludricous to think that our father/mother would have any differences when Guru ji themselves enlightened us as to what equality is..as i said before this is all common sense....

so there really is no debate then... guru ji gives knowledge and accepts praise by anyoen regardless of gender, age, language and background!

[The Khalsa Fauj]

Lion King kmaal kurtee. Bharava you deserve a siropao. Also respects to mann_kaum_layee and everyone else who stood up for the truth. Jai Tegung likes to associate with nirmalas. Just so that form readers know. Am I right??

[Jai Tegang!]

Chalo, I’m just going to leave it at this. I guess we see things differently on this issue, better to not fight over it I suppose. It’s not like this issue is new, it’s been in the Panth for quite a few decades now. If senior Gursikhs from across the Panthic spectrum weren’t able to agree on it, I suppose it’s childish to think we can ‘solve’ it on an internet forum.

“maan kaum layee kurbaan”, thanks for the kind words, really appreciated.

“hardkaurwariorz”: it’s not that I don’t believe in equality, I just try to place the hukam of Guru Maharaj above all else. (I know we got different views on what the hukam is for certain issues, like this one for example). Panj Piarey also can’t have any physical handicaps, and to most people in the west this looks like discrimination, but for me it’s hukam and I don’t really care what the world thinks. There’s one line that I have tried to live by since becoming amritdhari…..mera russay na kalgiawala, jag bhavey sara rus jayee….which translates to “I don’t care if the whole world is upset with me, as long is my kalgiawala is not upset”. I wouldn’t object if all Panj Piarey were women if Guru Gobind Singh ji wanted it to be as such. And that’s just where we differ. To me the hukam is for singhs only, and for most of you guys it’s that Guru Gobind Singh ji would allow women as well.

My mom, who’s also amritdhari, does most of the seva at our home in Guruji’s room. She also believes that Panj should be only Singhs, but this doesn’t mean she feels any less than my dad as a Sikh, she just sees it as hukam. Same goes for my sisters.

Oh, and what the heck are you on about “khalsa fauj”? I have some Nanaksariyee friends, but I aint no nirmala, haha.

So yeah, peace out from this.