Southall Ramgharia Gurdwara

[Sweet Punjaban]

I think Singh 392 and Pritam Singh Khalsa have very many valid points which the rest of us should try to understand.

As for the caste names which are added to the front of particular Gurdwaras names is very sad indeed...but is something that does exist. For example im chumaar and so am associated with Ravidass (Guru Ravidass to 'us') and all of my relatives attend the Guru Ravidass Gurdwara....it is said that back in the day people of low castes, such as chumaars, were not allowed to enter Gurdwareh and were handed prashaad outside Gurdwara whilst avoiding to 'touch' the so called 'untouchables'....Therefore what do 'chumaars' go and do? They set up "Guru Ravidass" Gurdwareh where 'their' people can go...

Was this right or wrong? Why it was right- People from lower castes, such as chumaars were able to go and sit in Gurdwaras freely, listen to the recitations of the Gurbani and had peace of mind to attend a Gurdwara with no restrictions. They were compelled to take such measures.

Why it was WRONG- What have these people learnt from the Gurbani? The main essence of Sikhism is that everyone is EQUAL...regardless of caste, creed, gender or race. The people who did not allow other, lower 'castes' to enter into 'their' Gurdwareh were not true Sikhs as they did not see the 'others' as equals...what was the use of such Gurdwareh where such people prevailed? And whats worse is those who set up Gurdwareh for 'their own kind' as they also displayed the same behaviour. For people who continue this caste labelling will not allow Sikhism to grow and flourish as it should...the minute someone attaches a caste to their name they are no longer Sikh...they become HINDUS as it was HINDUS who set up the caste system, therefore those who follow it must also be HINDUS right?? (Ofcourse there is nothing wrong with being Hindu). All those who wish to claim themselves as true SIKHS must let go of any part of them which relates back to caste if they wish to move forward and spread the word of the Gurus.

As for all the Gurdwareh that are set up with extended 'names' well the rest of us will have to deal with that, unless you think that going around and destroying such Gurdwareh will acheive anything, as you would still be disrespecting the SGGS and all that which the Gurus have taught us, as they are still places of worship where Vaheguru is worshipped. The Gurujis also taught us that respect others beliefs and religions yet I don't see a wide majority of many sikhs doing this at all whatsoever.

Thanks again for reading my post, Im just alittle upset that no-one answered my questions from my last post :|

Take care then :wub:

[randip singh]

The reason we sit on the floor in diwans & langar halls and why we drink Amrit from the same bata is because it eradicates castes, something that Randip is against.

You are totally out of order....have you any idea how much crap I have taken over the years because of my outspoken views against caste. Jatts, Tarlkhans, Khatri's, Chooraah's etc etc have all been vieing for my blood.....and you have the nerve to say this.

You are unbelievable.........counter my argument, but don't get personal.

[Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA]

Sweet Punjaban, Im sorry I cant find your question for me to have a swing at it. But you should literaly forget the name chumaar even exists because you are part of the human caste along with me and all the rest of the humans in the world. The more we remember the caste name the more we forget others.

If someone asks what caste you are you say "uah I dont know, wait Im a human, so Im in the human caste" corrupt places and people need to be over turned.Thats what Guru Gobind would have wanted.

On this past Sundy I was the very last person to get prashad and I was sitting right next to the Prashad bata. The only reason why I even was served some was becasue another GurSikh saw that they deliberately passed me by and "forgot" about me. I knew the GurSikh knew and the man serving prashad knew what he did and he quickly pretended that he was "sorry". Iam white and I see this stuff all the time. Another time I was in line for Langar and a kid that was serving food dumped out 3/4 of the spoonfulls and gave me the smallest amount of food you could actually give to someone. Even his mom was like "what! is that all your going to give him, hes a GurSikh" and he still justified it.His mom was about to take the spoons away but I jestered not to and if thats all he was going to give then that is all I was given that time. Very selfish to do "seva" yet not serve certain people. So I just dont go to that Gurdwara anymore because of the Un-equality there and in the Guru-ka-Langar, its not his but the Gurus Langar.I do though like the GranthiJi so I visit during the week and sit with BabaJi and talk about all the things I see.{{ I saw that many dont even go at all in the Darbar and just stand outside socailizing so I told BabaJi to install a speaker outside to broadcast the kirtan, Ardas, Hukamnama etc so that all those people would have to speak over the program and insult the Guru and Gurdwara if they remain ignorant of what the Gurdwara is for.] Now they go inside and listen to the program and then go outside and talk after the program is over, just a couple times at first they would shut off the kirtan after the program was over which BabaJi doesnt allow, he wanted to put the CD player in a cabinet and lock it but he didnt have to do that.

So many things that show that alot is corrupt and needs to be adressed to the uncorrupt GurusSikhs and have them speak to people about it because all should listen to the BabaJi so if the BabaJi is corrupt then expose him and vote in a clean and real one. etc etc etc etc etc

I love Sikhi and could never drop it and I know Guru Gobind Singh would have done the same.

SatNam

Se-ee piarre mel jinhan tera nam chit avvey

Waheguru Ji ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ki fateh!

[randip singh]

Better still why not have the McDonalds versian where one goes in and orders a certain meal?

I have to admit I can understand Randip Singh's views and maybe we don't know what Guru Jis would have let us do but when one sits completely humble they sit on the lowest level possible and that's the floor.

LOL....Mcdonalds version.

I think Guruji would have had a hukamnama against Mcdonalds if he was around today.....it iis both bad for the mind and body.

[Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA]

Guru Gobind Singh used to go in disguise as a poor Sikh and go to people houses to see how he was treated and was pleased with most but knew who wasnt real, so when they visited him he knew who was real and who was deserving.

[Guest Singh_jee]

shushhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

jus all shut up who are we to say whos beadbi or manmat or anti gurmat!

[Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA]

shushhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

jus all shut up who are we to say whos beadbi or manmat or anti gurmat!

HAHAHAHAHA Thats what the whole thread is about. :TH:

Its obvious to see what is beadbi or manmat or antiGurmat.

[KharkooSingh]

shushhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

jus all shut up who are we to say whos beadbi or manmat or anti gurmat!

We are the Khalsa Panth! Atma Granth Sareer Panth! GURU GRANTH KHALSA!

In our Ardaas we ask for a number of gifts (daan), one of which is bibek (intellect) daan. We ask Maharaj to grant us the gift to have the intellect to discriminate against what is Gurmat and what is Manmat. If we didn't than where would we draw the line!

Singh_jee, even you must draw the line somewhere. Otherwise how do you know what is right or wrong.

[TavPrasad Singh]

The reason we sit on the floor in diwans & langar halls and why we drink Amrit from the same bata is because it eradicates castes, something that Randip is against.

You are totally out of order....have you any idea how much crap I have taken over the years because of my outspoken views against caste. Jatts, Tarlkhans, Khatri's, Chooraah's etc etc have all been vieing for my blood.....and you have the nerve to say this.

You are unbelievable.........counter my argument, but don't get personal.

Sorry Singh I've didnt mean my posting to be that. I was meaning that you are against the caste system.

Sorry :TH:

[randip singh]

The reason we sit on the floor in diwans & langar halls and why we drink Amrit from the same bata is because it eradicates castes, something that Randip is against.

You are totally out of order....have you any idea how much crap I have taken over the years because of my outspoken views against caste. Jatts, Tarlkhans, Khatri's, Chooraah's etc etc have all been vieing for my blood.....and you have the nerve to say this.

You are unbelievable.........counter my argument, but don't get personal.

Sorry Singh I've didnt mean my posting to be that. I was meaning that you are against the caste system.

Sorry :TH:

thats cool mate....I see what you mean. :nihungsmile: