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everything is open to interpretation BOTH WAYS.

I don't think we are allowed to question the Panj, is that not disrespectful?

Well if they told you not to kill a black cow, or bow down to chairs, woudl you follow it anyways even if it's not in sikhi. And just do it out of respect? no.

the problem with the sikh community is that it is so easy to label a new ritual with "respecting the guru" it's higher people that do this that twist sikhi, and the average sikhi just accepts it because they are sants or something. Well people need to get out of that way and just follow directly from the guru.

that fact that you mention this, is the comman feeling - must not question anything and accept as is.

I disagree. The Panj ARE actually Guru Ji. In the Panj Pyare resides Guru Ji- can one question Guru Ji- no not a sikh rolleyes.gif . Think about it- the ones that become the Panj Pyare at Anandpur Sahib 1699 were the Panj Singhs that did not question Guru Ji.

Would you not have sat there that day and thought ''what is Guru Ji thinking, surely this is not correct to allow Guru Ji to cut my head now, no I will ask Guru Ji how he can even dream of asking me to volunteer''.

It's wrong to question the Panj Pyare with the idea that they are wrong, but I would understand if you questioned them to ask them what you did not understand as opposed to challenging them.

Calm down and stop going off on one.The Panj Pyare are no 'ordinary' people WHEN they wear the chola and take on that roop.Once out of the Amrit Sanchar that's another story.

And MAX maybe you have seen so called sikhs disrespect but you are no better. The reason they are called Guru Nanak Dev Ji is to show them respect in every way.

Yes Nanak is their name at birth but Gobind Rai was Guru Gobind Singh Ji's name but everything changed with time and with time their name alsod changed.

It would be disrespectful for you to call your elders by only their first name such as Kate or John. Better to call them Aunt Kate and Uncle John. Guru Ji are worth more than them and it's not too much to ask for you to show that respect on a SIKH SITE.

Thank you.

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everything is open to interpretation BOTH WAYS.

I don't think we are allowed to question the Panj, is that not disrespectful?

Well if they told you not to kill a black cow, or bow down to chairs, woudl you follow it anyways even if it's not in sikhi. And just do it out of respect? no.

the problem with the sikh community is that it is so easy to label a new ritual with "respecting the guru" it's higher people that do this that twist sikhi, and the average sikhi just accepts it because they are sants or something. Well people need to get out of that way and just follow directly from the guru.

that fact that you mention this, is the comman feeling - must not question anything and accept as is.

I disagree. The Panj ARE actually Guru Ji. In the Panj Pyare resides Guru Ji- can one question Guru Ji- no not a sikh rolleyes.gif . Think about it- the ones that become the Panj Pyare at Anandpur Sahib 1699 were the Panj Singhs that did not question Guru Ji.

Would you not have sat there that day and thought ''what is Guru Ji thinking, surely this is not correct to allow Guru Ji to cut my head now, no I will ask Guru Ji how he can even dream of asking me to volunteer''.

It's wrong to question the Panj Pyare with the idea that they are wrong, but I would understand if you questioned them to ask them what you did not understand as opposed to challenging them.

Calm down and stop going off on one.The Panj Pyare are no 'ordinary' people WHEN they wear the chola and take on that roop.Once out of the Amrit Sanchar that's another story.

And MAX maybe you have seen so called sikhs disrespect but you are no better. The reason they are called Guru Nanak Dev Ji is to show them respect in every way.

Yes Nanak is their name at birth but Gobind Rai was Guru Gobind Singh Ji's name but everything changed with time and with time their name alsod changed.

It would be disrespectful for you to call your elders by only their first name such as Kate or John. Better to call them Aunt Kate and Uncle John. Guru Ji are worth more than them and it's not too much to ask for you to show that respect on a SIKH SITE.

Thank you.

Very Well said!

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I disagree. The Panj ARE actually Guru Ji. In the Panj Pyare resides Guru Ji- can one question Guru Ji- no not a sikh rolleyes.gif . Think about it- the ones that become the Panj Pyare at Anandpur Sahib 1699 were the Panj Singhs that did not question Guru Ji.

Would you not have sat there that day and thought ''what is Guru Ji thinking, surely this is not correct to allow Guru Ji to cut my head now, no I will ask Guru Ji how he can even dream of asking me to volunteer''.

It's wrong to question the Panj Pyare with the idea that they are wrong, but I would understand if you questioned them to ask them what you did not understand as opposed to challenging them.

I would question them ahead of time and find more info them, to make sure they are not part of some sect or offshoot of sikhi. As there are high sikhs int he sangat that do belong to other grousp and follow different rehat maryadas - that is the part that is troubling. It's basically letting yourseld open to dispair if you let people with different beliefs to give you directions. Don't question there postion, question their thoughts and persoanl beliefs. some believe only males can take part, others believe in not killing black cow... so that is the point i'm trying to make.

Calm down and stop going off on one.The Panj Pyare are no 'ordinary' people WHEN they wear the chola and take on that roop.Once out of the Amrit Sanchar that's another story.

And MAX maybe you have seen so called sikhs disrespect but you are no better. The reason they are called Guru Nanak Dev Ji is to show them respect in every way.

Again SGGs quotes to show people who wear chola are better sikhs than the rest of "normal" sikhs. We should not be creating divisions in sikhi but instead recognise all cultures and languages as well as races in sikhi. I question human beings rules and motives in sikhi - not sikhi itself. It has been proven many times before that human understanding and power can lead to disturbing conclusions.

Yes Nanak is their name at birth but Gobind Rai was Guru Gobind Singh Ji's name but everything changed with time and with time their name alsod changed.

It would be disrespectful for you to call your elders by only their first name such as Kate or John. Better to call them Aunt Kate and Uncle John. Guru Ji are worth more than them and it's not too much to ask for you to show that respect on a SIKH SITE.

that is ture - so call guru nanak with respect not just "it" ir "him" or "nanak"

I don't question sikhi SSM, i question people, humans, man made laws, and so-called high people.

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Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA

Lionchild you question anything or everything about Sikhi. You also contradict yourself all the time.

Thats all I need to say for now.

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Lionchild you question anything or everything about Sikhi. You also contradict yourself all the time.

Thats all I need to say for now.

Acctuaqlly Sikh means to learn, and you learn by questioning (even if that sometimes mean contradiction). :@

i've always questioned people, sometiems there postion, their knowledge or just out of curiosity of learning.

guru nanak dev ji questioned the many hindu practices and muslim rule. People thought those thigns are respectable, yet he challenged them.

We nned people who question other and god, not neccesarily to prove wrong or find fault, but to further be a sikhi. Sikh means student, a learner, of course we ask questions :D

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Guest HaRdKaUrWaRrIoRz

Lionchild you question anything or everything about Sikhi. You also contradict yourself all the time.

Thats all I need to say for now.

Acctuaqlly Sikh means to learn, and you learn by questioning (even if that sometimes mean contradiction). :D

questioning is good ....but the same question OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN...thas when u noe sum1's in denial. LOL.gif

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Agreeing to disagree is ok with me.

Of course sikhi is about questioning, asking how to become a better sikh.

What Lionchild you are suggesting is that we question the Panj Pyares motives, I refuse to agree with that - it is not right. And I hope you will change your mind on that one.

You or me are not worthy of choosing the Panj Pyare or testing them.

Read the story of when Guru Ji passed the Gurgadhi on to the one that did not question them but continued to do as Guru Ji said.

Questioning is to question what happens around us, I don't know if that means question Guru Ji once one becomes a Sikh?

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Guest PRITAM SINGH KHALSA

Lionchild you question anything or everything about Sikhi. You also contradict yourself all the time.

Thats all I need to say for now.

Acctuaqlly Sikh means to learn, and you learn by questioning (even if that sometimes mean contradiction). :@

i've always questioned people, sometiems there postion, their knowledge or just out of curiosity of learning.

guru nanak dev ji questioned the many hindu practices and muslim rule. People thought those thigns are respectable, yet he challenged them.

We nned people who question other and god, not neccesarily to prove wrong or find fault, but to further be a sikhi. Sikh means student, a learner, of course we ask questions :D

To question things in the mind and going and reasearching why and what is O.K ,but yoou complain about anything you dont understand and basically you need a completely new way of Sikhi that would be completely flipped upside down just to fit your needs. As SSM said why did Guru Nanak place Guru Jyot into Bhai Lehna??????? Why did Bhai Jetha Ji have to build 7 platforms????????????? To understand means to question in your mind and study to define it as true or false, flat out questioning meant that you spent zero time figuring it out and complain it away so you dont have to do it.

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