Nature of Vaheguru

[Sarbloh Kaur]

During an email exchange with a Muslim, he sent me the following email. They find it difficult to accept Vaheguru is in everything. Wanted to share this.

All I wanted to do was present some aspects of Islaam to you. That was all. But all you're intent on doing is transforming this into a debate, which is sad. In my experience it shows insecurity. All I wanted was to attract you towards Islaam and make you realise how foolish the saying of those people are who say that God is everywhere and in everything. And I know you cannot defend this. And I know you will shy away when I ask you is God in your tummy. "Timeless (eternal) but within Time (non-eternal by necessity)" = CONTRADICTION. However, for those who don't want to see the obvious, Allaah has placed a disease in their hearts and He increases their disease. That disease is: Following ones forefathers even if their stance doesn't make any stance but on the contrary makes a mockery of Allaah and his blessed state.

All I did was ask you questions about your notion of God, and you turn around in this cold way and start this...'up yours' attitude. Why? Is it because Islaam is making sense to you but you don't want to accept it because of the consequences, as a result you start comparing Islaam with the Moghuls. Anyone who knows a little about the Moghuls knows they were far away from true Islaam - the proof, most of them used to worship saints and follow heretical sufi ways. So don't you dare place me in their category.

As for your stance about the INCARNATION of God into man, even partial, it is the most disgusting thing a human being can say. Almighty God can

be seen in a the manifested form of a human?! How?! It wouldn't surprise me if you hold human beings with greater respect than God Himself with this absurd notion that human beings can be a manifestation of Him, glorified be Allaah from the false tongues of men.

The great scholar Ibnul Qayyim (who preceded sikhism) said that the saying of those who say that Allaah is everywhere and everything is Allaah, this is more digusting than what the Christians say, i.e. God incarnated. They at least restrict it to a human, but these others, they say that God is everywhere even in the filthiest of places. Only the intellect which is corrupted could envisage and accept such an idea as this.

I don't understand you...but I'll have patience and see what you have to offer now that I've learnt you people are no more than the Christians. It that has come as a major shock, more knowing you have begun to accept this only because Holy Book says this. We'll see if it stands up to criticism insha'allaah.

And I still pray that Allaah open your heart up to Islaam and to the correct elevated understanding of Allaah and not understanding of the pantheists.

Gurfateh

[Guest mehtab]

arright time to kick some a$$ yet again :v :g

1st off, i myself had a debate with a 33 yr old muslim from UK like 7 months back, who came up with stuff like "if GOD is everywhere, then u mean He is there even between the space between u'r (part of the body from where the human excreta comes out) and the water in the comot just below it?" do not be bothered by these fanatics sarbloh kaur bhainjee...dont forget both RSS and HUT, hindu and muslim groups respectively, who have an agenda against Sikhs!

All I wanted was to attract you towards Islaam and make you realise how foolish the saying of those people are who say that God is everywhere and in everything.

Guru Sahibaan have said it over and over again that GOD resides in every single thing. Lets not doubt Gurujee.

And I know you cannot defend this. And I know you will shy away when I ask you is God in your tummy.HE sure is

Allaah has placed a disease in their hearts and He increases their disease. That disease is: Following ones forefathers even if their stance doesn't make any stance

which is what u r doing

All I did was ask you questions about your notion of God, and you turn around in this cold way and start this...'up yours' attitude. Why? Is it because Islaam is making sense to you but you don't want to accept it because of the consequences

no mister, because Guru Nanak has said in japji that no matter what we mere mortals say about WAHEGURU, its zero...only fools (u know who that is in this case) argue over GOD..Gurujee says that we humans cant comprehend HIM, cant sing HIS praises enuff. Maybe the gods of other religions are finite but sorry to disappoint u, ours is AKAL PURAKH!

Anyone who knows a little about the Moghuls knows they were far away from true Islaam -the proof, most of them used to worship saints and follow heretical sufi ways.

none of the mughals worshipped saints, and as far as sufis are concerned, mughals are known to have killed a larg

e number of sufi sants coz their beliefs were more tolerant unlike the mughals.

As for your stance about the INCARNATION of God into man, even partial, it is the most disgusting thing a human being can say

ya go tell that to the christians...Sikhism doesnt believe that GOD incarnates. Guru Gobind Singh said that any1 who calles me GOD will burn in hell and his progeny wont go any further.

The great scholar Ibnul Qayyim (who preceded sikhism) said that the saying of those who say that Allaah is everywhere and everything is Allaah, this is more digusting than what the Christians say, i.e. God incarnated. They at least restrict it to a human, but these others, they say that God is everywhere even in the filthiest of places. Only the intellect which is corrupted could envisage and accept such an idea as this.

never heard name of this scholar. and besides, the fact that he says so is coz he was there before Sikhism.

I don't understand you...but I'll have patience and see what you have to offer

try researching Sikhism and u'll ask "what is it that u dont have to offer?"

now that I've learnt you people are no more than the Christians.

christians feel proud of ONE martyrdom 2000 years back. Sikh history is written in blood and we have countless christs who were martyred in ways worse than Jesus Christ was! and u know by whom? by your very own ancestors!

It that has come as a major shock, more knowing you have begun to accept this only because Holy Book says this.

correction : SRI GURU GRANTH SAHIB is our Eternal Guru, not just a mere book. Find another religion where the followers bow their heads to the word of GOD. u are terribly mistaken if u think we bow before a book. NO! hindus bow before idols, muslims bow in the direction of their holy kaaba, but we bow before nothing but the WORD OF GOD.

And I still pray that Allaah open your heart up to Islaam and to the correct elevated understanding of Allaah and not understanding of the pantheists.

And I still pray that GURU SAHIB open your heart up to accepting the truth and to the correct elevated understanding of truth and not understanding of the fanatics.

[Gupt_Singh]

whats his email addy i LUV debating with musalmaans

if u want pm it or just type it here

the sikh concept of waheguru is far above the islamic one of allah sitting up in a throne way up above

[Guest mehtab]

KHALSA SOULJAH

i was waiting for yout to post bro

[jagjit_waheguru]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

pyare jio, there is alot of reverse psychology here. He is twisting everything you say, in a sort emotional blackmail. The sort of " you know we are right and in time you will realise."

I spent years debating with these guys and girls in uni. Use Sheik Farid ji, and Bhagat Kabir ji to put them straight.

Although do not like to many senseless debates. But if you need a hand let me know.

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Guest mehtab]

jagjit jee, i knew one muslim in my class in childhood who refused to believe there was a person ever called kabir . if u tell them about sufis, the prompt response is "oh sufis are not considered muslims" . Anything u tell them that conflicts with their set of beliefs, they will find a response like "easy way out". note that i m talking bout the fanatics. there are good muslims as well. the reason i know is coz i grew up in the middle east for 18 yrs of my life, and age 15 i was also brainwashed (well almost) by a classmate to convert to islam. he cudnt, and told me "one day u'll come to the right path". and then............................................years later.....................when i was 18........................................the true path was shown............................................... SIKHI

[Gupt_Singh]

1. to attempt to be able to resolve the contradictions in gods existance would imply that we are given a level of intelligence high enough to comprehend god, thus suggesting we are as high as god ourselves? is this not a bit of a travesty???? ask your friend the "could god create a stone he couldnt lift" question.......and u will realise that god is beyond human logic.

2. sufis are muslims, because by definition a sufi is one who believes in allah, mo as the last prophet and the last day. thus a sufi fits the criteria for a muslim.

3. sheikh fareed mentioned in the guru granth sahib is not actually the same sheikh fareed as thought! there is a book written proving that sheikh fareed was actually a contemporary follower of guru nanak. now i understand why the bani in SGGS and sheikh fareeds bani have no similarity at all :T:

4. plez plez give us his address...........ive had funny debates with muslims on the street (preachers), friends, on the net in discussion forums.....and id like to add 2 my repertoire

5. people like aurangzeb are described by historians as "the most fair and religiously strict of moghuls". please ask your friend to give sources showing that aurangzeb was a bad muslim.

the concept of god beyond beyond space and time is not understandable for a common moslem. if i say god is both here and htere, manifest in his creation yet for

mless, beyond form and beyond formlessness, a muslim gets confused. if i say that god transcends human thinking and thus cannot be comprehended - "sochai soch na hovae je soche lakh //" - a sikh understands he cannot understand......but a fool does not

bottom line is, the quran is a load of gibberish, its actually politics under the guise of religion. even mohammed said in the saheeh ahadiths "dont ask too many questions, otherwise you will questins your faith" :e:

[Guest r k]

bhanjee if you need help talking to this person, you should ask the sangat... if you're confused about ANYTHING that he says, you should make sure to talk to people about it so you can find the proper answers.. And PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEEEEEEASE, try your best not to lose your temper.. Because I know when some people argue about these things, they end up swearing at the other person.. Forget that bhanjee. Even if he says something stupid, you don't need to go down to his level.

Remember, it's useless to argue with people who aren't going to change, and gurbani even says it's useless to argue with fools. You should just defend sikhi properly, and say what you believe. But if he keeps on saying "your views are disgusting", there's no point in writing back to him. Who cares what he says anyways, Sikhi is the most beautiful, amazing thing ive ever heard of.. Just everything about it, it leaves you wonder struck.. If someone does not want to understand that, and if this guy thinks that only Muslims will go to heaven, WHO CARES? Only people with good fortune and lots of kirpa are blessed with the truth..

Lets do ardaas for HIM, because I think he needs it most.. Its so sad when people get egotistical about their religion and start to think "my way is the only way".. .. If you do paat for these kinds of people, they eventually WILL realize the truth. Trust me..

So if it just gets more useless, you dont have to keep arguing with him.. Guru Jee balances everything out, in the end truth will reign above all. S

o dont get too caught up in what hes saying..It doesnt really matter

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

You can debate this person and get a headache...or you can just block that e-mail address. I would choose the latter.

Look, you are a Sikh, or at least on the path of becoming one. Guru Sahiban wanted us to respect others views, but remain steadfast in our own beliefs. Best bet would be wish this person their best in understanding Islam.

[warrior*princess]

Bhainjee, i deeply advise that you cut ALL connection with this Muslim...Jagjit veer jee is right...they twist things...trust me, ive been through the debates and in they end they only end up doing baistee of Guru Sahib...i was lucky that the person gave up on me and was shocked at my energy of staying firmly on ground and instead getting stronger in Sikhi. This is thanx to Vaheguru ji.

What I am trying to say, is that just practise Sikhi to its fullest...and somehow Guru jee removes your dushts from your path.

Bhainjee, seriously, do not waste time with him/her...these are their tactics..they start by saying that i only want to tell you something but it turns into a debate coz they start attacking at you and mess up your mind. They use this tactic when they know they cannot make you their wife (lol).

I hope you consider blocking him/her otherwise everyday you will feel like @