Real Fight Or Mere Display ?

[Quest4Akal]

Hey guys thanks for the civilized replies. I honestly thought I was going to get ripped apart on here. I don't mind people disagreeing, thats what lifes about I just can't stand the immature people who like to throw insults and what not if they dissagree. Well that hasn't happened yet so I'm happy.

As for S133k_s1kh, To answer your questions. I'm not an expert in Shastar vidiya or even Gatka. I love playing gatka cause its a fun way to get excercise. The fencing part is the best. Anyways I believe there is one person who says he knows the actual art. And hes the only one living today that knows it (thats what HE says). Hes from U.K. And these are the nihungs i'm referring to. However I'm not sure if it is the real marital or not because i don't know much about Shastar vidiya. But i'm not saying its not either. Well you might be thinking wow thats wicked one person knows it and hes teaching in U.K. But all i'm going to say is his views are very conterversial on a lot of subjects. In fact I don't agree with anything he says aside fromt he shastar vidiya part. I'm not attacking his character. I never met the guy. All i'm saying is if you don't agree with someones beliefs then its hard to learn from them cause thats what they gonna push on you. I would love to learn from them and judge for myself if it is the real art. From what I've seen it looks pretty deadly. But I don't agree with what they say on a number of very important issues in the panth.

Anyways from my limted knowledge Gatka is a show art. A really really watered down version of the real thing. And shastar vidiya is the art Guru ji gave us. A complete art where breathing technique, many pentras, ways to defend ways to attack with many various weapons is taught. It is a complete martial art.

At this point I want to say something about Hardkaurwarriorz post. I'm glad you agree with me. However you said that we shouldn't look down on anything the guru has given us. Gurmukh pyari I would never do that, I think you misunderstood what i said. I have not stated that gatka is a martial arts passed down to us by our gurus and it is ineffective. How could anything given to us by our gurus be less then perfect. I just want to clarify my statement is that Gatka is not the original martial art passed down to us by our Gurus. And this just my opinion because i have studied other martial arts and the amount of detail that goes into show martial arts let alone real martial are way more then gatka. I mean u said if u have a dang then you would be effective because of what they teach you in gatka. I will go one step further and say even if you had a dang or a gatka stick you wouldn't be even close to effective against a true practioner of a deadly martial art. Even if that guy had nothing in his hands. Because none of my gatka teachers ever told me how to swing effectivly or how to use my hips or what are the kill spots iwth a lathi. All i was taught was the pattern.

So what i'm trying to say is that Whatever Guru ji has passed down to us is perfect, and shastar vidiya is perfect. My statement is that gatka is an extremely watered down version of shastar vidiya.

The difference between both. Gatka teaches you how to swing a sword around really fancy so you look super deadly. and do patterns with kartars and shields. Also teaches u how to fence on a point system, which is my favourite part. Which is kool. However Gatka only has one penthra mool panthra. penthra means footwork. And footwork is not stressed to much in gatka. Any martial art always stresses footwork above every and anythign else. You need to have the roots strong before the tree can be strong. I've seen teachers teach penthra for a day and let kids grab sotis. Because there is nothing else to teach in gatka (footwork wise). However any marital artist will tell you, u have to train at least a few years before you can even touch a weapon. In gatka you can get a weapon the second or third day. And the weapons aren't realistic. You have swords which are flimsy and really dull. Where as in a real martial art you learn with a wooden version of the weapon first and gradually over time maybe years get to use the real version. Gatka you go straight to the flimsy sword and never move up. Also kill spots and how to actually use a sword are never taught. Pressure points breaking bones, different types of weapons and what each weapon can do and what its strengths and weaknesses are are not taught.

Basically most akharas when you watch ppl do gatka thats pretty much all they know. They don't know anything more then what they are showing you. That has been my experience. There might be other types of akharas out there however i'm not aware of any of them.

As for your comment on are bibiya strong? LOL. In muy thai kick-boxing i met bibiya who could take me out in a fight pretty quick when i first started off. And i'm six foot five. Its not how big or strong you are its about how much experience you have and how good your technique is. LOL. I have met singhnis i would not mess with. Your a brave guy making that female comment. I hope it helps.

[KHaNdA_NaTioN]

Naaah.. its not preplanned!

[Guest s133k_s1kh]

Quest4Akal bai thanks for the reply, its worth a read and calirifies many thgs.

Anyways I believe there is one person who says he knows the actual art. And hes the only one living today that knows it (thats what HE says).

So according to this person no one else except him knws this vidiya but he must have learnt from somewhere. Do you knw anythg about tht? Have you tried finding anyone wid this vidiya, i mean in India or somewhere ? any books on this subject ?

If we knw most of the thgs dat puratan singhs did, someone must knw bout this vidiya for sure..rght?

As for your comment on are bibiya strong? LOL. In muy thai kick-boxing i met bibiya who could take me out in a fight pretty quick when i first started off. And i'm six foot five. Its not how big or strong you are its about how much experience you have and how good your technique is. LOL. I have met singhnis i would not mess with. Your a brave guy making that female comment. I hope it helps.

I take my words back :D .

[Gurbar Akaal]

The person in question is the infamous Nihang Niddar Singh, and from his findings he is probably the last person who knows the full Khalsa Jang Vidiya. He learnt from a great warrior named Akali Mohinder Singh who has now done their charai.

Niddar Singh has stayed in Budha Dal and interviewed Puratan Babeh such as Baba Raam Singh, and Baba Ranjit Singh who had technical knowledge of Jang Vidiya, but they themselves have now also done their charai.

Due to people being lazy, and not putting in the effort to learn such arts, the old babeh who possessed the knowledge have passed away, and there is no one else to pass it on, in just one generation hundreds of years of gyaan has been lost.

[Quest4Akal]

I cannot believe that out of all of india hes the only that knows it? I just can't comprehend how this art can be lost. I hope its not true. But maybe it is. I wish I could learn it. It would be such a pleasure to learn the art the Our Gurus taught us

[Gurbar Akaal]

Within times of peace people lose the "kadar" for fighting arts, with the introduction of guns the focus on hand to hand, blades and weapons arts have declined immensly amongst the nihang dals. Niddar Singh has interviewed some Nihangs who have said that "whats the use of learning how to use a sword, in these days its "ungli di vidiya", ie, pulling a trigger.

It took Guru Hargobind Sahib 15 years to train their armies, and that was to battlefield level, this level is extremely high, something that cannot even be contemplated by the average martial artist who trains for unarmed, padded 1 on 1 combat, in an controlled environment.

Is it any wonder why no one is willing to put in at least 20 years training day in day out?

[millitant_kaur]

erm, cud ne1 tell me where Nidar Singh Ji teaches??? lyk duz he teach newhere in d south east??? i lern gatka n iss ite, but lyk deres not alot 2 lern. :D but ye if ne1 duz no of where he teachs pls lemme no :TH:

[Guest militant singh]

erm, cud ne1 tell me where Nidar Singh Ji teaches??? lyk duz he teach newhere in d south east??? i lern gatka n iss ite, but lyk deres not alot 2 lern. :D but ye if ne1 duz no of where he teachs pls lemme no :TH:

1st of all just want to say hi Militant Kaur :TH: lol,dont get involved with Niddar Singh,hes a nang who idol worships,and misleads the youth with his Hindufied Version of Sikhi among other things he says we can drink alcohol,eat meat,we are sons of the HIndu nation,Guru Gobind Singh Ji worshiped Shiva,Guru Nanak was a hindu adultery is ok as long as the oppposite sex is Sikh,and other anti sikh principals,These 'nihangs' may look like true Khalsas but they are Hindus n Sheeps in warrior (SOri had a typo b4)clothing and are carrying out the RSS's work right here in Britain..............................Niddar Singh Should be a no go for any Sikh who accepts Guru Granth Sahib as thier eternal guru as he is agianst the very fundamentals of Gurus Teachings,and belives in Devis,Idols and other superstisious crap,I appeal to the youth not to be brainwashed and would rather you join a normal Gatka Akhara than this Neo Nang Hindu propoganda machine wjkkwjkf

[Gurbar Akaal]

"Hindus in Sheeps Clothing"

I never knew the Bana of Guru Gobind Singh was sheeps clothing. lol.

[millitant_kaur]

hmmm but paj, if hes got d technque isnt it beta 2 lern it??? lyk even if d way he rolls ain ryt, lyk if hes got d Shaster Vidiya technique den ye?!?!?!?!

:D