Grandmother Guilty Of Murder Plot

[Carpe Diem]

I hope her and her stupid *************** son ROT IN HELL. - thats just my opinion.

LONDON - A 70-year-old British grandmother is facing life imprisonment after being convicted today of the "honour killing" of her son's wife who she murdered after luring her to India.

Bachan Athwal, 70, who has 16 grandchildren, is believed to be one of the oldest women ever to be convicted of murder in England. Her son was also found guilty of murder.

They will be sentenced on Sept. 19.

The two killed Sikh Heathrow Airport worker Surjit Kaur Athwal, who disappeared in December 1998 after she decided to walk out of her arranged marriage.

Bachan Athwal, a mother-of six, was furious about her daughter-in-law's plans to leave, which she believed would bring disgrace on the family, London's Old Bailey court heard.

The pensioner was said to have told one family member that any divorce proceedings "would happen over my dead body".

The Customs officer was lured to India by her mother-in-law, and her minibus driver husband Sukhdave Singh Athwal, 43, on the pretext of attending family weddings but was instead strangled.

The alarm was raised after the 27-year-old victim failed to return to her home in Hayes, west London. Her body, believed to be somewhere in the Punjab area in India, has never been found.

The verdict is the second involving honour killings in Britain this month. Iraqi Kurd Mahmod Mahmod was jailed for life last week for murdering his daughter after discovering she was having an affair.

"This case highlights how seriously we treat any murder or violence, regardless of the motive, whether it be for financial gain or in the name of so called honour," said Detective Chief Inspector Clive Driscoll of London's Specialist Crime Directorate after Thursday's verdict.

"It is the culmination of over eight years' work by the Metropolitan Police, and the determination of Surjit's family, to see the perpetrators brought to justice," he said.

During the three month trial, the court heard that Surjit's 10-year arranged marriage -- which she entered when she was just 16 -- was on the rocks and she was desperate to leave it.

She had asked for a divorce and was having an affair with a colleague. Athwal and her son were so aggrieved they plotted to "get rid of her", the jury was told.

"She was a vivacious young girl, was Surjit ... and she had developed a somewhat Westernised-style of life," prosecutor Michael Worsley said. She cut her hair short, smoked cigarettes and drank alcohol.

"They were Sikhs, and for the girl to have an affair was obviously something dreadful. Eventually feelings against her boiled over.

[Guest Akirtghan]

did you read the gurmukhi ??? dont rely on english translations because they are wrong.

contemplate what guru sahib is saying, dont just read the english translation and stop there. if other paths do lead to god, then why did guru sahib had to start a brand new path?

How is the english translations are wrong?

lemme start you off here

rwh dovY ieku jwxY soeI isJsI ]

Rāh ḏovai ik jāṇai so­ī sijẖsī.

One who recognizes that all spiritual paths lead to the One shall be emancipated.

dovY means 2, where did the word all come from in the english translation?

Maybe Guru Ji started sikhi because sikhi is the fastest path to reach god. :wub:

again, show me some bani that supports it and i'll be happy to agree.

I already posted my quote. Right now, you said my quote is false, fair enough, but how about you post a quote from Guru Granth Sahib to back up your claim?

This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Aasaa on Pannaa 470

mÚ 1 ]

ma 1 ||

First Mehla:

swm khY syqMbru suAwmI sc mih AwCY swic rhy ] sBu ko sic smwvY ]

saam kehai saetha(n)bar suaamee sach mehi aashhai saach rehae || sabh ko sach samaavai ||

The Sama Veda says that the Lord Master is robed in white; in the Age of Truth, everyone desired Truth, abided in Truth, and was merged in the Truth.

irgu khY rihAw BrpUir ]

rig kehai rehiaa bharapoor ||

The Rig Veda says that God is permeating and pervading everywhere;

rwm nwmu dyvw mih sUru ]

raam naam dhaevaa mehi soor ||

among the deities, the Lord's Name is the most exalted.

nwie lieAY prwCq jwih ]

naae laeiai paraashhath jaahi ||

Chanting the Name, sins depart;

nwnk qau moKMqru pwih ]

naanak tho mokha(n)thar paahi ||

O Nanak, then, one obtains salvation.

juj mih joir ClI cMdRwvil kwn@ ik®snu jwdmu BieAw ]

juj mehi jor shhalee cha(n)dhraaval kaanh kirasan jaadham bhaeiaa ||

In the Jujar Veda, Kaan Krishna of the Yaadva tribe seduced Chandraavali by force.

pwrjwqu gopI lY AwieAw ibMdRwbn mih rMgu kIAw ]

paarajaath gopee lai aaeiaa bi(n)dhraaban mehi ra(n)g keeaa ||

He brought the Elysian Tree for his milk-maid, and revelled in Brindaaban.

kil mih bydu AQrbxu hUAw nwau KudweI Alhu BieAw ]

kal mehi baedh athharaban hooaa naao khudhaaee alahu bhaeiaa ||

In the Dark Age of Kali Yuga, the Atharva Veda became prominent; Allah became the Name of God.

nIl bsqR ly kpVy pihry qurk pTwxI Amlu kIAw ]

neel basathr lae kaparrae pehirae thurak pat(h)aanee amal keeaa ||

Men began to wear blue robes and garments; Turks and Pat'haans assumed power.

cwry vyd hoey sicAwr ]

chaarae vaedh hoeae sachiaar ||

The four Vedas each claim to be true.

pVih guxih iqn@ cwr vIcwr ]

parrehi gunehi thinh chaar veechaar ||

Reading and studying them, four doctrines are found.

Bwau Bgiq kir nIcu sdwey ] qau nwnk moKMqru pwey ]2]

bhaao bhagath kar neech sadhaaeae || tho naanak mokha(n)thar paaeae ||2||

With loving devotional worship, abiding in humility, O Nanak, salvation is attained. ||2||

==========================

cwr vrn siqsMg gurmuiK myilAw]

chaar varan sathisang guramukh maeliaa||

The people of all the four varnas sit together in the company of gurmukhs.

jwx qMbolhu rMg gurmuK cyilAw]

jaan thanbolahu rang guramukh chaeliaa||

All the disciples become gurmukh as betel leaf, lime and chatehu when mixed become of one red colour.

pMjy Sbd ABMg Anhd kyilAw]

panjae shabadh abhang anehadh kaeliaa||

All the five sounds (produced by different instruments) keep the gurmukhs full of joy.

siqgur Sbd qrMg sdw suhyilAw]

sathigur shabadh tharang sadhaa suhaeliaa||

In the waves of the Word of the true Guru, gurmukhs ever remain in delight.

Sbd surq prsMg igAwn sMg myilAw]

shabadh surath parasang giaan sang maeliaa||

Joining their consciousness to the Guru's teachings, they become knowledgeable.

rwg nwd srbMg Aihins ByilAw]

raag naadh sarabang ahinis bhaeliaa||

They keep themselves absorbed day and night in the great resonance of Gurbani, the holy hymns.

Sbd Anwhd rMg suJ iekyilAw]

shabadh anaahadh rang sujh eikaeliaa||

Drowned into the infinite Word and its steadfast colour only the One (God) is realised.

gurmuK pMQI pMg bwhr KyilAw ]ñö]

guramukh panthhee pang baahar khaeliaa ||aa||

Out of the twelve ways (of yogis) the way of the gurmukhs is the correct way.

[Guest Akirtghan]

byVI cwV lµGwieMdw bwhly pUr mwxs mohwxw]

baerree chaarr langhaaeindhaa baahalae poor maanas mohaanaa||

Only one person ferries across many a man.

AwgU iek inbwihMdw lSkr sMg Swh sulqwxw]

aagoo eik nibaahindhaa lashakar sang shaah sulathaanaa||

The one commander of the imperial army gets the whole task executed.

iPrY mhlY pwhrU hoie inicMd svn prDwxw]

firai mehalai paaharoo hoe nichindh savan paradhhaanaa||

Because of only one watchman in the locality, all the rich persons sleep free from any anxiety.

lwVw iek vIvwhIAY bwhly jw\IN kr mihmwxw]

laarraa eik veevaaheeai baahalae jaanjeen kar mehimaanaa||

Guests in the marriage party remain many but the marriage is solemnised of one person.

pwqSwh iek mulk ivc hor prjw ihMdU muslmwxw]

paathashaah eik mulak vich hor parajaa hindhoo musalamaanaa||

The emperor in the country happens to be one and the rest are the public in the forms of Hindus and Muslims.

siqgur scw pwqSwh swD sMgiq guru sbd inswxw]

sathigur sachaa paathashaah saadhh sangath gur sabadh nisaanaa||

Similarly the true Guru Emperor is one and the holy congregation and the Guru word-sabad are His identification marks.

siqgur prxY iqn kurbwxw ]òñ]õ]

sathigur paranai thin kurabaanaa ||aa||a||

I sacrifice myself unto them who seek the shelter of the true Guru.

===================================================

mq ko Brim BulY sMswir ]

math ko bharam bhulai sa(n)saar ||

Let no one wander in doubt in the world.

gur ibnu koie n auqris pwir ]1] rhwau ]

gur bin koe n outharas paar ||1|| rehaao ||

Without the Guru, no one can cross over. ||1||Pause|

http://sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=3233

[Guest baba amarjeet singh]

punjabi link

stop going on about this mona thing mate

if you wish to be a sikh of the guru, you must take amrit from the guru and obey the rehit of the guru, which includes not cutting your hair

however, as this story shows, just because you take amrit and wear a keski, does not make you a good sikh, if you commit a terrible sin like this woman has, you deserve not, to be called a sikh of the guru, and should go before panj and beg for forgiveness

***MOD REMOVED***

woahhh

do u read what you type before pressing send?

you are comparing cutting your hair, to a jatha??????

guru sahib specifically said, to be an amritdhari gursikh, one must not cut their hair as it is one of the bujjar kurehits

where did guru sahib mention anything about jathebande? and why have you brought jathebande into this?

No buddy, you fail to realize that it is easy to pick flaws on anyone. The point I was trying to make is that jatha isn't supported by sikh gurus so why follow it? What makes it any different than cutting hair? If you want people following true sikhi, then give up your jatha and take (real) amrit and be a "true" sikh first. If you aren't a true sikh, then how can you say who is a sikh or who isn't?

I hope you read this post before the mods delete it.

what makes jathebande different to cutting your hair, is that ONE IS A BUJJAR KUREHIT

DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

where does guru jee say anything about jatha????

it is know to EVRYONE tht guru gobind singh jee said, tht cutting your hair is a bujjar kurehit

mate, your making a fool of yourself comparing jathe to a bujjar kurehit

real amrit?

there is only one amrit mate, where the correct rehit is given out and the panj pyare are abyiaasi gursikhs

That is my point! Sikh gurus never mention anything about jathas, then why are you following it?

Your amrit is fake since you got it from a man made group.

Anyway, this my last post about jathas in this thread.

following what?

i am trying to follow the rehit tht guru gobind singh jee gave, which has been distorted by many over the years. now all the singhs with the same beliefs on the rehit which guru sahib gave have been grouped into jathe. how does make jathe rong? no, i took amrit from guru gobind singh jee. not a group.

mate before u chat about jatha WHY DONT U FOLLOW THE BASICS AND UNDERSTAND THT CUTTING UR HAIR IS WAY WORSE THAN ANY JATHE.

its like a heroin addict telling someone not to take paracetamol

[Prem]

sad stuff...my prof asked me about this

i didnt know of it then tho

he must think this is how sikhs are

sad man (

Well here's an idea, the next time there's a murder that makes the headlines carried out by a white man, ask your Professor about it the next day when you see him, and ask his opinion on it, as a white man. I'm sure it'll make him stop and think.

[Prem]

Well buddasingh, after reading more about this case, and the tenacious and never-ending quest for justice by Surjit's brother, I now realise that they were victims too, victims of the barbaric culture that forced them to view it as their family duty to marry his sister to a stranger at the age of sixteen.

I would love to read your opinion of Dr_c's post by the way.

Then her relatives fully fledged Sikhs go on camera and say “it’s a landmark victory” where was he when his sister (I assume its her brother) was doing all these things. The only victory he has achieved is disgracing the name of sikhi whilst himself pretending to be one.

What is your take on this particular moral inversion?

Guru Fateh

[Dr_c]

Yes and also ask him why the british government is not so keen to investigate murders in its own country as they are keen to investiagte murders abroad.

This offence took place in India yet the pair have been tried and found guilty in the UK at the taxpayers expense i may add. If i rember correct they have some old law that allows them to do that.

Shame they aint so keen to bring some of the 84 murders to justice.

Typical proporganda by these honkeys to badnam the faces of other religions. I would say its against the sikhs only but we all know thats not true, as the week before we had a muslim case where they had killed there daughter under similar circumstances.

They call it "honour" killings thats only because they are a race of no religion, culture or value. Hence they have none themselves and would not understand honour.

[Prem]

Dr_c I suppose there's no point in discussing things with a racist like you who hates white people and refers to them as 'honkeys' and is angered by murderers being brought to justice for conspiring in the murder of an innocent woman, erroneously conflating issues like 1984 and the murder of Surjit Atwal, a British citizen. At least it's good to know that there are people like you out there so everyone knows that this murderous impulse still exists.

This offence took place in India yet the pair have been tried and found guilty in the UK at the taxpayers expense i may add.

Of course it took place at the taxpayers expense! That's how the justice system works, and what a great thing it is.

They call it "honour" killings thats only because they are a race of no religion, culture or value. Hence they have none themselves and would not understand honour.

You sound like all these racist Muslim fundamentalists who salivate with contempt for white people. Racism in all its forms is nasty, but being racist to an entire group of people just because two murderers were brought to justice for killing a woman takes on extra dimensions of inverted morality. Honour? I would like to honour all those people who think that murder in the name of 'izzat' is an evil that deserves to be punished with the harshest penalties. Your 'honour' involves murdering people --- that's not honour, that's grubby little murder.

[Dr_c]

Prem I am not a racist. Merely pointing out that they seem to want to make an extra effort to highlight these issues, when it happens against other cultures.

My very first post on this subject said that I did not agree with what they did.” Firstly I do not agree with what the mother and son did here before we all know who jumps down my throat.”

Funny how the later part of the sentence speaks for itself.

Murder is murder as you quite correctly put it. I condone it just like you do. And yes I can compare to a lot of situations where they have not convicted there own. For many crimes spanning many years. Once again I was highlighting the fact that they seem too have a lot of enthusiasm and energy when it comes to these things.

And it’s nice to know that there are people like you out there who have such a western view on things. To quote a few

“When you come to England change your attitude and live by the law of the land.”

Is it this attitude that’s bringing our Sikhi culture to its knees.?? The law of the land allows all these things like smoking, drinking and all the rest (lets not elaborate) So go out there and do it then if that’s your view.

“Furthermore, she was married when she was 16. What kind of thing is that to do? Barbarians. This is the 21st Century. Backward cave people like this, with the morality of 500 years ago, need to change their ways when living in the West. Forcing a girl of 16 to get married is pure evil. The sooner these types of backward people die out amongst Sikhs in the UK the better. If you want to live by the laws of the pind, stay in Punjab, don't come to England.”

Who are you calling a “Barbarian” “backward cave people” here I assume it’s the same girls family (who you seem to have a passion for at the moment) Bit hypocritical isn’t it??

“At least it's good to know that there are people like you out there so everyone knows that this murderous impulse still exists.”

And its just as reassuring to know that there are people like you out there who seem to be very quick to throw insults and make accusations when someone else’s view doesn’t match yours. I never in any post agreed with the fact that these two had killed an innocent woman, nor did I support it, so how you have come to this conclusion only yourself knows. And despite your words rest assured I do not agree with murder irrespective of the circumstances.

“You sound like all these racist Muslim fundamentalists”

You call me a racist then yourself call Muslims racist as well, just you like to have a dig at me about it.

It would appear that my categorization of the white community seems to have hit a raw nerve with you. Remember this next time you are called a “paki” or some other similar remark

Having read your posts I am not the first and I sure won’t be the last who has had the “honor” of your insults.

Its just a shame that your are not so enthusiastic about the real issues here as you are about your insults.

[dalsingh101]

Murder is murder as you quite correctly put it. I condone it just like you do.

I do hope that is a typo and you meant condemn not condone.....