Grandmother Guilty Of Murder Plot

[Prem]

Dr_c you say racist things about white people and then try to act all aggrieved? You assert repulsive moral equivalences and virtually try to justify this murder and then act like a victim?

I find your moral sense and ethics here to be quite repulsive. You are the classic apologist for honour killings and violence, conflating trivial indiscretions with murder as equal in the moral code, but acting all shy when confronted with the basic truths and making sure you superficially condemn it whilst making apologia for their motives. You are filled with the kind of paranoia and moral backwardness that goes with this culture of oppression and hypocrisy. And you really are a racist full of hate for white people. You don't want to be demonised for the crimes of individuals Sikhs, but you are very very happy to demonise and generalise about white people in a classically racist manner. If there's one thing I know, it's that racists and bigots and those who do undercover justifications for honour crimes rarely see the light. I hope one day in your life you can reflect on your moral inversions and bigotry --- hopefully before you enact them and we see your face on the BBC News website.

buddasingh --- it's these attitudes we need to uproot and discredit from amongst us. If they didnt exist, the media wouldnt have anything to racistly stereotype us with in the first place.

[Dr_c]

Murder is murder as you quite correctly put it. I condone it just like you do.

I do hope that is a typo and you meant condemn not condone.....

Of course yes i do.. Spell checkers not always so postive :WW:

[dalsingh101]

Thank the Lord for that Dr C!

I think Angreezis are sneaky <admin-profanity filter activated> with their media as well btw.

But in all fairness, certain practices in the community need to end.

Prem, what you fail to realise that the levers of power are squarely in white hands. They are in a position to manipulate and smear others (which LARGE sections of their media do all the time! RE The Sun, The Mail and various programs and slants on international events on television). So making out Dr C's position is equal to that of gora society (which has strong racist/colonial undercurrents) is plainly wrong.

One side can just complain about stuff the other can use powerful institutes and apparatus to embody their racism. Big difference.

[Prem]

dalsingh101

Dr_c's semi-apologia for the reasoning behind this backward cultural practise is more worrying than his blanket racism of white people (although that is quite bigoted as it is), portraying them as being without 'culture, morality, honour, religion' and so on.

Because some right wing newspapers have an agenda, it does not justify generalisations of entire groups of people on the basis of prejudices. If you seek to decry racism and yet embody racism yourself, you're nothing but a hypocrite.

[dalsingh101]

dalsingh101

Dr_c's semi-apologia for the reasoning behind this backward cultural practise is more worrying than his blanket racism of white people (although that is quite bigoted as it is), portraying them as being without 'culture, morality, honour, religion' and so on.

Because some right wing newspapers have an agenda, it does not justify generalisations of entire groups of people on the basis of prejudices. If you seek to decry racism and yet embody racism yourself, you're nothing but a hypocrite.

There is a big difference in having some attitude towards another race and actually going through the motions of establishing and fostering major bad feelings through concerted campaigns through the media. The people who have the energy and desire to sustain the latter are infinitely more rabid in their racism than the former but do not appear so because of their subtlety and sophistication.

I agree that what that buddhi and her son did was disgusting (to put it mildly). I said before, if they were trying to protect their honour they failed. Now they look dishonourable to the whole country and have dragged their own quoms name in the mud in the process. Plus Khalsa cannot be kuri maars and one wonders what they were learning and getting from all their dogmatic religious approach when simple morals seemed to escape them.

However such dumbness and evil by socalled Sikhs doesn't distract from the fact that the media is up to much negativity when it comes to religion and foreigners here. Old colonial type mentalities still hold much sway in conservative institutes of this country. Note I am not saying that there is not much to commend here but see stuff for what it is. The media here is a negative force against us the vast majority of the time.

[Prem]

dalsingh

I agree that right wing newspapers demonise minorities and they do demonise Sikhs. No doubt about that. But these are separate issues. It shouldnt lead to a denial of what the problem is, and what we should do to defeat and counter it. It's possible to condemn and be active against both. The trouble comes when people focus on one rather than the other.

[dalsingh101]

dalsingh

I agree that right wing newspapers demonise minorities and they do demonise Sikhs. No doubt about that. But these are separate issues. It shouldnt lead to a denial of what the problem is, and what we should do to defeat and counter it. It's possible to condemn and be active against both. The trouble comes when people focus on one rather than the other.

I agree, we have enemies inside who through their backwardness give ammunition to the enemies from outside who use any opportunity to defame others in order to preserve their own society. We need to combat these both. Only modern education can save our people from pindu honour killings and such, and only a modern style education can give us the skills to understand and counter the sophisticated techniques used by gora society (note I am not implying every gora but important sections of their institutes) to destabilise other ways of living they do not like.

[buddasingh]

Well buddasingh, after reading more about this case, and the tenacious and never-ending quest for justice by Surjit's brother, I now realise that they were victims too, victims of the barbaric culture that forced them to view it as their family duty to marry his sister to a stranger at the age of sixteen.

I would love to read your opinion of Dr_c's post by the way.

Then her relatives fully fledged Sikhs go on camera and say “it’s a landmark victory” where was he when his sister (I assume its her brother) was doing all these things. The only victory he has achieved is disgracing the name of sikhi whilst himself pretending to be one.

What is your take on this particular moral inversion?

Guru Fateh

Prem,

You’ve concluded that

1. Arranged marriage at age 16 is a barbaric practice and it was practiced by the girls family

2. the CAUSE or MATERIAL CONTRUBUTION of the murder was (‘they were victims of’) arranged marriage of a sister at the age of 16.

Therefore your conclusion, oddly disguised, MAINTAINS that the family is barbaric and the family caused or materially contributed to her murder when she was married.

---------------

First, everyone on this forum is on the same page when it comes to being disgusted by the crime.

The topic is emotional, and there is some leeway for trying to hit home your views at the expense of logic.

However, in doing justice to this topic, we must think logically. Otherwise we rely on angry instinct that easily buys into a media mob mentality. Part of that media mob mentality is falling into mental traps for judging/hating darker skinned scapegoats.

Here’s some food for thought.

In most cases today, arranged marriage at that age would be barbaric. However, to say so in all cases is to be naïve about differing and valid cultural practices. Our guruji’s were married at very early ages.

Today, “white” children, given condoms at the age of 12, is considered ultra-progressive but darker skinned marriage at the age of 16 is unquestionably barbaric? Who determined that? Largely, media; even though the condoms here can lead to abuse and life long need for therapy, while arranged marriage here can avoid unwanted pregnancies and disease, and validate emotional maturity.

Emotion is understandable in this type of crime, but your clichés and conviction in your previous monologue could get you hired as a speechwriter for the Nazi party.

Your passion against sexism and racism is something in which I support you. For a Sikh forum, I wish there was more. However, sometimes it seems that you’ve got unresolved hatred for Sikhs that keeps exposing itself. Of course that's hard to tell from getting to know people on a screen, so I may be unfair and off, if so, reassure us, and forgive me.