Guru Arjan Dev: The Koran And The Guru's Martyrdom

[Gupt_Singh]

ok on one side its important not to rip any religion cuz it is bad for ur own spirituality

BUT

if anyone believes that islam really does teach the concepts of equality, tolerance etc the same way sikhi does (or the same modern human rights do) they need to have a better study of the religion

for example

if i were to quote hadiths where some pregnant woman composed verses similar to the quran so someone killed her and mohammed praised him, what would you say?

or if mohammed said its perfectly ok to take as many slave women you have captured from villaages for yourself, what wud u say

or if there was evidence that mo had simply committed genocide by wiping out an entire area of jews, again what wud u say?

it is important not to just rag another faith but come on the facts are there. your a "kaffir" whether u like it or not.........

[learning_sikhi]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

very true jii

[curious_man]

yeah...right.....

by the way y learningsikhinot replying .....i think he started it

[HARJAGJEET]

It is very strange that on this site which is exclusively ours and is meant to discuss our religion we are discussing a topic which does not appear to have any relevence at the moment. Moreover there is, no one to counteract to the stand taken by most of us. Just by taking our stand viz a viz Mohammdanism and that too in their absentia, wont make any difference to them nor to us.

I just put aposer. If Mohammdanism as such is bad, then where do we calssify Bhai Mardana,Rai Bular, Sjjan (Thug), Sain Mian Mir, Pir Buddhu Shah and his five beloved sons, Pir Bhikam Shah, Gani Khan and Wali Khan, Nawab of Malerkotla and even Maulan Abul Kalam Azad and numerous other Mohamdans, who took their sides with the Sikhs and even laid down their lives for the cause of justice.I am not pro or anti any ism. But I am not pro too for condemning all others just for the cause of condemning. Guru Hargobind Sahib while established the tpwn of HarGobind Pur, himself got built a mosque over there for the prayer by the Mohamdans. One of his generals Painde Khan , when defected to the opposite side, faced Guru Harobind Sahib, in the battle, and when he was dying he begged for solitude from Guru Har Gobind Sahib, who advised him that as he was a muslim, he should recite Kalmas and not go hither and thither.

After waiting some reaction from some of my friends, I shall post an artic;e here Mohammdans and Sikhism, wherein I have dealt in detail about the noble mohammdan souls, who had their faith in Islam, but who sided with our Gurus and the Sikhs pf the day in those days of tyrinical rulers

[Guest Akaal108]

I m disguisted with some of the replies here.. Next thing we wanted to really see sikhs joinin rss wing burning "Koran Copies" @ @.

May guroo nanak sahib nirankar baksh's his sikhs with "shanti" and "nirmata" towards other dharam's or other jatt/patt.

Note: Its not good to represent sikhi and call koran false just because you had bad expereinces with muslims.

[CFD]

Guru sahib said ,"Koi bolay ram naam , koi khudai "

HE SAID KOI BOLAY NOT YOU CAN ALSO SAY. for us it's gurmantar = get to sachkhand

i hope i made my point.

[S1ngh]

Pls do not post stuff about other religion stuff.. Lets concentrate on sikhi and be firm in sikhi a little bit more..

[>Bikramjit Singh<]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Harjagjeet

It is very strange that on this site which is exclusively ours and is meant to discuss our religion we are discussing a topic which does not appear to have any relevence at the moment.

I am not sure where you are from but this issue has a great deal of relevance to Sikhs living in the UK. Daily we are being bombarded with islamic propaganda about how it is such a great religion. Daily Sikh youth are approached by Muslims intent on dissing sikhi and trying to prove that Islam is the 'true religion'. Where can these young Sikhs find out how Sikhi differs from Islam ?. It is good that Sikhs can discuss what the differences are between Sikhi and Islam and what the Guru Granth Sahib says about Islam. Surely discussing what the Guru Granth Sahib says about Sikhi can be seen as one of the functions of this forum. As far as I can see no one has dissed Islam, if your view is that quoting the Guru Granth Sahib about Islam is dissing Islam then you have a lot to learn. If a young Sikh came up to you and asked what the Guru Granth Sahib says about Islam would you just quote the Bhagat Kabirji verse saying 'call not the vedas and koran false' and leave it at that or whould you go on to read the rest of the verse which heavily criticises Muslims for following the instructions of the Koran.

You claim that the Muslims tha

t helped the Gurus or were the Guru's friends still had 'faith in Islam' ?. Thats a very tall claim to make. I assume that you would agree with me that for someone to have faith in Islam they have to necessarily follow each and every verse of the Koran ?. How then can you classify all those Muslims who helped the Gurus as Muslims when they did not follow these verses ?

Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah. Koran 3.28

How could they have been friends with the Gurus when the above verse states that they should not choose friendship with unbelievers ?. Did the Gurus seek out friends from among the Muslims or did the Muslims approach them ?.

Guru Hargobind Sahib while established the tpwn of HarGobind Pur, himself got built a mosque over there for the prayer by the Mohamdans

The Gurus were not against the Muslims praying and following the spiritual instructions oftheir religion but when Muslims like Aurengzeb started to follow the Koran's more unsavoury instructions such as this-;

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

The Gurus then fought against them.

You mentioned the Nawab of Malerkotla, it is true that he had spoken up for the Sahibzadas at the court of Wazir, did you also know that he opposed and fought against Banda Singh Bahadur. That he was killed in one of the battles against Banda Singh Bahadur. His successors always joined the Afghans like Ahmed Shah Abdali and were present when the Sikhs were massacred in the Vada Ghallughara ?.

I hope that when you write your article you will answer some of the questions that I have posted.

GurFateh

Bikramjit

[HARJAGJEET]

S. Bikramjit Singh Ji,

Gur Fateh ,

i may just inform you that I belong to India and am not aware of the ground realities ofthe country of your adoption. (I may however mention that temporarily I am in Canada and am writing this mail from Toronto).

Any how without going into any any controversy, I may mention that I have posted the article as promised. I would like to have your and other members' comments, so that i may learn something new and may also like to post something more thereafter.

I may mention that I don't claim to be a historian or a philospher, but I am only a small reader of Sikh History and Sikh ideology as given to us and I understand by our reverred Guru Sahib and as enshrined in our Shabad Guru, Guru Granth Sahib

Jagjit Singh

[>Bikramjit Singh<]

I m disguisted with some of the replies here.. Next thing we wanted to  really see sikhs joinin rss wing burning "Koran Copies"  @  @.

May guroo nanak sahib nirankar baksh's his sikhs with "shanti" and "nirmata" towards other dharam's or other jatt/patt.

Note: Its not good to represent sikhi and call koran false just because you had bad expereinces with muslims.

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

N30 Singh

Calm down, you have a tendency to go ape whenever Islam is criticised on this forum. No one has advocated that we start burning the Koran so I don't see who you have come that conclusion. Mind You this is a reaction I have come to expect from PC Sikhs who see any criticism of Islam as hatred.

No one has criticised Islam soley because they have had any bad experiences with it. They have used the Guru Granth Sahib and the Koran to show that Islam does not match up to Sikhism. If you think that any of the q

uotes are wrong then please feel free to show us how they are incorrect. Don't feel disgusted by the fact that some Sikhs don't feel the same PC attitude as yourself towards Islam.

I look forward to reading some well researched and articulate counter arguments from you.

GurFateh

Bikramjit