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so true !!!!!

the website was down but we slaves of the Guru are back !!!!!

Sikhi 4ever !!!!!

[Summeet Kaur]

All his Kirpa :D

Thanks to the hardwork of Vicky and Amardeep Singh, may Waheguru Bless you more.

In peace,

Summeet Kaur :D

[gagan]

[AK-47]

As far as i have been told, this Saroop was written in the 1920's, on order of the SGPC when they were created and came to power over the gurdwara's.

This is what i have heard so may well be incorrect, please correct me if im wrong.

Also bhaji please dont use the word 'PAGES' this is very disrespectful to Guru Ji, whenever we refer to Guru Ji use ANG and not pages which implies a book.

It seems preservation of history is something we as a panth dont believe in, rather than preserve the historical buildings we just cover them up with marble and gold. Mosques and temples and churches from hundreds of yrs still stand today, but our Guru Ghar's are just covered up with modern materials.

When you mutha tekh at harimandir sahib and are walking out through the gate (is it called darshan deori or am i confused with some other name!?) you will see that the top of it is white and gold, yet at the botom there are intricate patterns of red and gold which seems to be either decaying off or the overlayers seem to have come off. Either way there seems to be a lot thats just been covered over with white paint.

In 2003 i went to Harimandir Sahib when i first arrived and the usual buuilding work was going on. When i went back two weeks later, there were two guys wearing little hankies on their heads knocking down the bases of the two main nishan sahibs!! When id last looked there didnt appear to be anythign wrong with them! so why do that? i just came back and they normal again now, but you have to wonder at all the repairs and buildings whether there was something wrong with them or not!

Anyway just me going on as usual!

[Niranjana]

Sardarni Sahiba,

Gurfateh!

VahegurooJikAkhalsa!VahegurooJikIfateh!

Thank you for clarifying your position and polite response. For clarity on my part, I have not assumed you are part of the AKJ or any other organisation, jatha or group, the rAgamAlA reference was simply to highlight one of the most prominent issues surrounding the authenticity of the Guru Granth Sahib.

As per the larivAr saroop, I agree that this is the most authentic and efforts should be made to provide santiya classes for such purposes in all Gurdwaras, rather than building basketball courts to supposed “attract†the youth or doing Jaap Sahib in Rap format and other similarly lame effort...anyhow, this is another discussion and I myself have yet to find the necessary resource to begin Santiya proper...

Indeed the Guru Granth Sahib was created through a “very systematic, orderly, thoughtful process,†however there are plenty to doubt its authenticity and variations are found in traditional birs as well. Just because, we have the SGPC/Akal Thakt seal of approval on one version, doesn’t mean that discrepancies are not occurring, as mentioned rAgmAlA is the main area of contention in recent years, however it should be noted that there are many others –see the reference below highlighting these...

So whilst I agree that the credibility of the Sri Guru is undoubted, I trust you can see what I am trying to say with respect to the historical aspects of its compilation. You stated that the compilation procedures of the Dasam Granth are deemed less credible ONLY because over the last hundred-or-so years the composition has been manipulated to contain Banis t

hat are not in fact by Guru Gobind Singh Jee.

I am glad you raised this point and would like to explore this further:-

Please could you indicate which banis in the Dasam Granth you consider not to be authored by Guru Gobind Singh before we continue on this front as this is indeed a topic crucial for any Khalsa Singh/Singhnee.

Also, others may argue that this Granth was not compiled by the Guru himself, however neither were shabds such as Shabd Hazare (another compilation by Bhai Mani Singh), so really we are doubting Bhai Sahib, there was another thread concerning this matter, I believe you are probably familiar with it since it invoked much in the way of interesting response from yourself and the moderators on account my comments...we’ll leave Bhai Mani Singh out from this thread for now and can continue (hopefully in our new-found polite manner) where we left off in the other thread.

Look forward to hearing from you and discussing this further.

Gur Fateh!

Note referred to:-

1. 'Panch Khalsa Diwan' believed that the Sri Guru Granth Sahib is infalliable, BUT they viewed 'the Bhagat Bani' as an anti-Sikh collection, which is against the 'Gurbani Di Kasauti'. Thus, the 'Panch Khalsa Diwan' believed the infallibility of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, but its Guru Granth Sahib was different.

2. The 'Akhand Keertani Jatha' believes that the Sri Guru Granth Sahib is infalliable, BUT the 'Ragmala' is a 'Kachchi Bani'. They think the 'Ragmala' is against the 'Gurbani Di Kasauti'. Thus, the 'Akhand Keertani Jatha' believes the infallibility of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, but its Guru Granth Sahib is different.

3. The 'Beerh' containing 'Adi Granth' and 'Dasam Granth' in a single volume was once installed during the 'Khalsa Diwans'. For those Sikhs, 'Sri Dasam Granth' was a part of 'Sri Guru Granth Sahib'. Thus, the 'Puraatan Singhs

' believed the infallibility of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, but its Guru Granth Sahib is different.

4. The 'Pothi Sahib', the first 'Beerh' of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib is considered infalliable by the 'Dheermalis'. (They still exist). Thus, the 'Dheermalis' believe the infallibility of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, but its (Guru) Granth Sahib is different.

5. The main stream of the Sikhs believes in Sri Guru Granth Sahib as it is being published nowadays by the SGPC.

6. Before the first 'Beerh' written by Bhai Gurdas was installed in Sri Darbar Sahib, Harimandir Sahib, another 'Beerh' came into the existence. It is called 'Bhai Banno Wali Beerh'. Its copies still exist. These copies remained in use even after the creation of 'Khalsa Panth'. Those Sikhs believed that the hymns by Meera Baayee are the part of Sri Guru Granth Sahib. Thus, those Sikhs believed the infallibility of Sri Guru Granth Sahib, but its Guru Granth Sahib was different.

Thus, we can see that there are at least six versions of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib. The anti-Sikh forces make use of it. They cannot dare to challenge the infallibility of Sri Guru Granth Sahib directly, but they use their weapons of misguidance differently. They do not create distrust about the Sri Guru Granth Sahib; they create doubt about the historic copies of the Gurbani. Some people follow them and start to say that this or that part is not the Gurbani.

For a Sikh, the Gurbani is the Guru. So he, who turns away from the Gurbani, actually turns away from the Guru. Sri Guru Amardas Ji, the third Guru of the Sikhs, said about such people, "Je Ko Gur Te Vemukh Hovai, Bin Satgur Mukt Naa Paavai" [He, who turns away from the Guru (becomes vemukh), does not find liberation without the True Guru]. (Sri Guru Granth Sahib, page 920).

http://www.amritworld.com/infallibility_of...of_gurbani.html