~! Danger Of Bhausaria Mindset In The Panth !~

[N30S1NGH]

I agree with kam, contoversy over "certain parts in gurbani" cannot being mukhvak of guru sahib is been going on "subtly" forever on and off in the panth. However, doubt over gurbani has became an trend with arrival of teja singh bhausaria and its mindset which is still alive and kicking today.

Also why look at the examples of modification or sansa on gurbani after guru gobind singh ji, lets look at example during guru's time ram raie's who had attempted to change guru's bani.

Guru Har Rai Ji kicked out his own son when his own son Ram Rae changed one word of gurbani to placate the emperor Aurangzeb.

Anyway going back to the topic on hand:

Here are some of pages i scanned regarding details events of panch khalsa divan and sgpc move to change mangals in gurbani.

[Singh132]

The Mangals issue is totally different than the Bhasauria issue. The Mangals as they appear in the saroops that are printed today are not always correct. For example, in Sukhmani Sahib, the mangal appears after "salok" which is not shudh. I have not seen a single puratan saroop with the mangal in this way. In fact, in Guru Hargobind Sahib's own gutka sahib which is displayed at village Ghurani Kala along with Guru Sahib's chola and kharaanv, the mangal goes first.

I have seen one puratan hand written saroop from the 1700s with all the Mangals first.

I think that this issue was decided without enough consideration and research.

I think we need to distinguish between making any changes at all to the status quo vs. making innovations.

[N30S1NGH]

I agree this mind set is very dangerous.

But I think Namstang is definitely a Bhausarida.

How does that make sense bro, here i m spending (my priceless life time which i should be doing naam simran) exposing bhausaria mindset and i m bhausaria.

[Akaali]

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[Charandhoor Singh]

Namastang the voice of reason has spoken

[N30S1NGH]

The Mangals issue is totally different than the Bhasauria issue. The Mangals as they appear in the saroops that are printed today are not always correct. For example, in Sukhmani Sahib, the mangal appears after "salok" which is not shudh. I have not seen a single puratan saroop with the mangal in this way. In fact, in Guru Hargobind Sahib's own gutka sahib which is displayed at village Ghurani Kala along with Guru Sahib's chola and kharaanv, the mangal goes first.

I have seen one puratan hand written saroop from the 1700s with all the Mangals first.

I think that this issue was decided without enough consideration and research.

I think we need to distinguish between making any changes at all to the status quo vs. making innovations.

Mangals may be different issue than bhasauria dangerous mindset. However its all inter linked especially after their decision of making it one standard. Its a known fact bhausaria came up with "gurbani kosh" book where this change of mangals were first discussed along with other modifications of gurbani which is mentioned before in this thread. Bhai kahn singh nabha was somewhat part of this as well.

SGPC with bhausar mindset based their beleif on kartarpur saroop. Whereas sant samaj based their beleif on Damdama sahib saroop. Dont get me wrong, i m not saying that one puratan bir is right other one is wrong, that is just difference of opnion and research, thats a non issue all together because both parties basing on their beleif on two puratan granths, but what drove sant samaj to burn printing press was sgpc "daring move" to print all guru sahib saroop based on kartarpur saroop, and have this one standard across all the gurdwaras.. You may call this innovations, i call this destruction of puratan sikh manuscripts and hertiage.

Until to this day, every tuesday sgpc goes around and collecting birdh saroops/puratan saroops of guru sahib and do agan bhet, no need rss to do anything, sgpc leaders with bhausaria mindset self destructing the panth hertiage, you can read more about sgpc destruction of hertiage on http://www.sikhawareness.com/sikhawareness...opic.php?t=4713 and as well amandeep singh madra site- http://www.punjabheritage.org

Now coming to the issue- which bir is more authentic. I dont have much research myself in this topic, its very complicated issue requires lots of studying in manuscripts. So thats why i wish not to beleif damdama sahib bir is right and other one is wrong just because sant samaj or samparda's beleived in it or vice versa. We need to do our own khoj. I think in this case its best to look at a scholar who have approached it from neutral angle, one such scholar is jevan deol. He spent all his life studying manuscripts. According to his research, during this event, sgpc scholars used 11th version of orginal kartarpuri saroop which itself is different from orginal kartarpuri saroop which is perserved by sodhi family. However sgpc scholars like to push that their work is based on orginal kartarpuri bir which is not likely the case jevan deol himself went to research on this and he found differences between orginal kartarpuri saroop and 11th version of kartarpuri saroop. On the same token he also found that damdama sahib bir was also modified during late 1700 (dont know exact date) by mughal general(dont know exact name-will get the name).

Not only that he also found out the orginal prof sahib singh translations of gurbani which was done through vikyaran was also based on 11th version of kartpuri saroop which is different from orginal kartarpuri saroop which is fully perserved by sodhi family.

Coming back to the issue of mangals, all the meetings of sant samaj were never about damdama sahib saroop was right and kartarpur saroop was wrong, whole issue came down to "sgpc "daring move" to print all guru sahib saroop based on kartarpur saroop, and have this one STANDARD across all the gurdwaras.

[Charandhoor Singh]

Wow that thread on the destruction of history s very powerful and a great eye opener. I suggest everyone reads that link on Sikhawareness.

[N30S1NGH]

Wow that thread on the destruction of history s very powerful and a great eye opener. I suggest everyone reads that link on Sikhawareness.

There was actually very powerful picture posted by singh in that topic which shows how sgpc treats gurbani, its not there anymore because host where pic was uploaded went down. I am trying to get hold of that picture. I fully recall there was a huge stack of gutkas/pothis just thrown on a floor by sgpc soo called great sevadars of panth. It was very powerful and painful picture to see.

[Charandhoor Singh]

Namastang I have heard that Bhasauria and his jatha also burnt a lot of puratan saroops, can you confirm this?

[sant mat]

From my understanding the biggest Bhausarida is the one who can not accept another person's views. We have to accept ones opinions and live in harmony SATNAM.

Namastang you are exposing this mindset, yet you should be careful that you do not fall into this mindset as you are starting to sound like a Bhausarida i.e. my way or the highway.

God is in all

SATNAM