Malkit Singh

[DashmeshForce]

yeah, i also agree with Sarpanch. sikhi is about, "live and let live", not about policing people's lives. real kharkoos protected the weak from the police, prevented beadbi of guru sahib and punished guilty police and gov't officials.

but people who went around as the Morals police and told people what color chunni and dastaar to wear and what songs they could listen to, well basically if you have ever gone to Punjab, you'll know that punjabi people don't put up with that taliban type nonsense. they basically say, assi jiddah marzi jeeieh, tusi ki theka liya ah?

its funny how the movement strated out as a human rights struggle for sikh rights in India and became a movement to enforce values and code of conduct on people. that is one of the reasons the movement failed. when the movement was strictly about protecting sikh life and property and fighting for equal rights, the whole of punjab was behind it, but when it became Taliban style, hey you have to wear kesri chunnis to school, all boys had to wear kesri dastaars, people were like, yo, you guys gotta go.

simple hard truths which may leave the very hardcore fanatics with some anger.

malkit singh has every right to sing and do what he does. just like all you people yell on the top of your lungs about freedom of expression and speech in engand and america, and then refuse to give those rights to people in punjab and in the punjabi community.

malkit never claimed to be a spokeperson for sikhi or a sikh role model.

you guys should concenetrate on people who call themselves the "pope of the sikhs"(Vedanti) and claim to represent the khalsa, and end up chilling at RSS functions.

as always go after something which has nothing to do with the sikh quam's problems. if malkit singh sings tootak tootak tootiyah, and you don't like it, don't listen to it. what you gotta force everyone and their mama to also not listen to it?

many of those kharkoos who did that stuff turned police cats and now probably listening to Miss Pooja while we're here arguing like fools.

anyways

peace.

Khalistan without morals makes no sense, why would we want Khalistan if it consisted of the same old sharabi and amli public? Social reform was needed back then and by god you can see why, look at the situation Panjab is in now, where even Panjabi girls are addicted to drugs and selling there izzats to feed their habits.

Panjabis are very proud people and 'izzat' is listed as high as anything else, infact it was the general Panjabi public who told Malkit Singh that he would get a beating if he entered Panjab again after singing that song, after which he apologized to the bazurugs and was subsequently forgiven. So that pretty much blows out your "tuhada theka leya" theory & blaming the militants for intefering.

It's really sad to read your comment that 'those kharkoos who did that stuff turned police cats and now probably listening to Miss Pooja' Bhai Gurdeep Singh Deepa, Bhai Harjinder Singh Jinda, General Labh Singh were amongst the forefront and gave their lives for the cause of making Panjab a better place.

If you want to listen to Panjabi music that promotes culture and language then why not listen to songs like Manmohan Waris's 'Kehnde Ne Siaane Galla Sachiyan, Khaadiya Kharakan Kam Auniya" where he is publically addressing the drgus situation in Panjab.

[Babbar Shere]

this is for Azaad,mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan, and to anybody that agree with them.

dastaar wearing dont mean anything.

that same dastaar wearing drinks beer, eats meat, so what happen to the dastaar respect then?

you wouldnt be agreeing with em, if one of those half naked girls that danced with em was your sister.

easy to say he's got a right to sing the crap that he does, too bad you wounld agree if he was singing those songs to your sister.

and for khalsa, every girl is sister, and every elderly women is mata ji.

so i dont care who you might be, or how high of a damn award you might get from which ever queen or king, if you wear dastaar and then go out and do <admin-profanity filter activated> that goes against the dastaar, then you might as well have no dastaar.

its a shame we support singers like this, when we know damn well that our gurus would not....

how dare we put the word "singh" after our names, and yet our actions prove other then those of the very first singhs. How dare we??

[Singhstah]

jsingh123 and babbar shere, hit the nail on the headdd!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Khalistan without morals makes no sense, why would we want Khalistan if it consisted of the same old sharabi and amli public?

agree 100%

its a shame we support singers like this, when we know damn well that our gurus would not...

yeah, I actually think that Guroo Sahib would have sorted them out some way or another , but now the duties are with Guroo Panth.

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

"you wouldnt be agreeing with em, if one of those half naked girls that danced with em was your sister."

never said i agree with Malkit Singh. Never supported half naked girls dancing in videos. Malkit Singh's profession is a Punjabi singer. That's his line of work. He promotes punjabi culture, which means singing in the punjabi language and bringing the popular folk dance bhangra to the world stage.

i support his right to freedom of expression. Just like Americans and England tolerate rap videos etc, with the girls and the crazy lifestyle, its called freedom of expression. its because of this freedom that you guys can walk around with panj kakaars in western countries.

"easy to say he's got a right to sing the crap that he does, too bad you wounld agree if he was singing those songs to your sister. "

for us it may be "crap," but for some its punjabi lyrics. again, freedom of thought and expression.

"and for khalsa, every girl is sister, and every elderly women is mata ji.

so i dont care who you might be, or how high of a damn award you might get from which ever queen or king, if you wear dastaar and then go out and do <admin-profanity filter activated> that goes against the dastaar, then you might as well have no dastaar. "

malkit singh never claimed to be a khalsa. not every punjabi is a khalsa. every person who takes khande baate da pahul is a khalsa. so khalsa rehit and baani and baana is for khalsas, not for everyone.

your views on the actions of a khalsa does not pertain to a person who is not even amritdhari.

"its a shame we support singers like this, when we know damn well that our gurus would not...."

I never supported him. the only reason i even posted was because "babbar shere" called him a "homo" being a sikh website, just thought i'd reply to something very rude and inappropriate.

"Khalistan without morals makes no sense, why would we want Khalistan if it consisted of the same old sharabi and amli public?"

So someone is going to set up a group of people who go around the pinds to see who's drinking and who's amli? a group of amritdharis sikhs are going to roam around the villages of punjab to make sure no one is drinking or listening to punjabi songs? how closed minded is this? do you think this is even rational? you think during gurus' times, punjab had no amlis or drunks? this is a rangeeli duniya, some are attuned to god, some keep rehit, some don't, some drink, others don't, some dance, some sing, some pray towards mecca, some go to Hardwar. It called diversity my friend. it's the respect for diversity and freedom of thought and expression that has landed our families on the shores of foreign lands. think about it.

"yeah, I actually think that Guroo Sahib would have sorted them out some way or another "

no sword has been mightier than the sikh sword. Islam was spread far and wide by the sword. if the sikhs had such a twisted mentality and religious mindset, they could have easily, and i mean easily, made the whole world sikh with the mighty sikh sword. but Zor and Zabar are two things sikhs despise with a passion. a sikh never imposes his will on anyone, and i say this with conviction.

To say Guru Sahib would have sorted out such people is an insult to guru sahib. our guru sahibs "sorted" people out by living an exemplary life. not by sending bands of khalsas to "sort" out the punjabi singers and drinkers. how cheap you've made the legacy of the sikhs.

"Panjabis are very proud people and 'izzat' is listed as high as anything else, infact it was the general Panjabi public who told Malkit Singh that he would get a beating if he entered Panjab again after singing that song, after which he apologized to the bazurugs and was subsequently forgiven. So that pretty much blows out your "tuhada theka leya" theory & blaming the militants for intefering."

it was not the "general public" who did this. the general public survived the onslaught of the 80s and early 90s. and this same general public sings that song at almost all parties to this day.

"It's really sad to read your comment that 'those kharkoos who did that stuff turned police cats and now probably listening to Miss Pooja' Bhai Gurdeep Singh Deepa, Bhai Harjinder Singh Jinda, General Labh Singh were amongst the forefront and gave their lives for the cause of making Panjab a better place. "

Yes, i stand by my comment. The great singhs you named did not waste time on punjabi singers and the sort. bhai harjinder singh jinda took down general vadiya, who did beadbi of sri akal takhat sahib, a valiant soldier who took down the general who attacked darbar sahib. General Labh singh and the likes fought zalum policemen and gov't agenst who terrorized sikh families, raped and looted sikh families. what khalsas they were, i bow in reverence to their sacrifices.

but to those who terrorized common punjabi folks, who roamed the countryside with ak-47s, stopping people from listening to songs and dancing at wedding parties, to them, i show no respect. they diverted the movement from a movement against state repression to a movement for the imposing of khalsa rehit on every punjabi sikh. instead of fighting the gov't forces who challenged the sikh quam, they brought the fight to average punjabi people.

that's why they lost the support of the average punjabi. nobody could just chil at night and play cards. listen to some tunes dance at weddings etc. that is the definition of terrorism. terrorizing people from expressing themselves freely and imposing one's views on others with threat of dire consequences.

the indian gov't tried to impose its will on the sikh quam and the sikh quam fought back. then how can we become hypocrites and behave in the same manner?

ok i'm done with this post. i don't know if i made my stance clear.

peace.

[DashmeshForce]

"Khalistan without morals makes no sense, why would we want Khalistan if it consisted of the same old sharabi and amli public?"

So someone is going to set up a group of people who go around the pinds to see who's drinking and who's amli? a group of amritdharis sikhs are going to roam around the villages of punjab to make sure no one is drinking or listening to punjabi songs? how closed minded is this? do you think this is even rational? you think during gurus' times, punjab had no amlis or drunks? this is a rangeeli duniya, some are attuned to god, some keep rehit, some don't, some drink, others don't, some dance, some sing, some pray towards mecca, some go to Hardwar. It called diversity my friend. it's the respect for diversity and freedom of thought and expression that has landed our families on the shores of foreign lands. think about it.

You fail to grasp the meaning of social reform, Khalistan is for progress, changing the name would not mean that Khalistan objective is complete. In western countries such as UK, legally, you are not allowed to shoot up drugs in the middle of the street, nor drink on the street, is caled law and order, if you are caught doing this you can be jailed, heck you can be fined for dropping a piece of paper on the street. So, what was wrong with Singhs bringing about a bit of law and order in Panjab? Some measures were a bit extreme, but the still worked, such as ending dowry etc. Singhs would not be targetting the drug user but the drugs smugglers, not the sharabais but the thekay that sell dodgy sharab etc.

Where did I say not to listen to Panjabi songs?

"Panjabis are very proud people and 'izzat' is listed as high as anything else, infact it was the general Panjabi public who told Malkit Singh that he would get a beating if he entered Panjab again after singing that song, after which he apologized to the bazurugs and was subsequently forgiven. So that pretty much blows out your "tuhada theka leya" theory & blaming the militants for intefering."

it was not the "general public" who did this. the general public survived the onslaught of the 80s and early 90s. and this same general public sings that song at almost all parties to this day.

No your wrong, it WAS the general public. If you actually listen to or understand the song, you will see why. Tuttak Tootiya may be played in western parties, but I've certainly not never heard it been played at any Panjab wedding, and ive been to plenty!

Also in reference to the 'tuhada theka laya' comment, if that was the case then why do all pinds still have panchayats and sarpanchis?

"It's really sad to read your comment that 'those kharkoos who did that stuff turned police cats and now probably listening to Miss Pooja' Bhai Gurdeep Singh Deepa, Bhai Harjinder Singh Jinda, General Labh Singh were amongst the forefront and gave their lives for the cause of making Panjab a better place. "

Yes, i stand by my comment. The great singhs you named did not waste time on punjabi singers and the sort. bhai harjinder singh jinda took down general vadiya, who did beadbi of sri akal takhat sahib, a valiant soldier who took down the general who attacked darbar sahib. General Labh singh and the likes fought zalum policemen and gov't agenst who terrorized sikh families, raped and looted sikh families. what khalsas they were, i bow in reverence to their sacrifices.

Again, wrong, it was Gurdeep Singh Deepa and Gurnek Singh Neka of KCF who killed Chamkila, under orders of Panthic Committee social reform movement, which included Baba Manochahal. Gen Labh Singh & Harjinder Singh Jinda issued press statements to encourage Panjabis to also follow certain procedures and end others such as dowry etc.

but to those who terrorized common punjabi folks, who roamed the countryside with ak-47s, stopping people from listening to songs and dancing at wedding parties, to them, i show no respect. they diverted the movement from a movement against state repression to a movement for the imposing of khalsa rehit on every punjabi sikh. instead of fighting the gov't forces who challenged the sikh quam, they brought the fight to average punjabi people.

that's why they lost the support of the average punjabi. nobody could just chil at night and play cards. listen to some tunes dance at weddings etc. that is the definition of terrorism. terrorizing people from expressing themselves freely and imposing one's views on others with threat of dire consequences.

No-one forced anyone to stop listening to Panjabi songs, do you have any references to back this up? If you go to Panjab and ask villagers who lived the movement you will see that majority of the villagers, whilst were scared of the consequences, gladly welcomed the Jujharoos into their home to feed & shelter them.

I dont know where you hear your stories from, but from people I know who met Jujharoos who came to their pinds, nothing of the 'terrorizing' sort is mentioned. Sure there were bad apples, but they did not outwiegh the honest Singhs. We all know of the CATS, and vigilante groups set up by the Panjab Police, and the so-called 'Kalay Kachay Wallay' but thats another story.

the indian gov't tried to impose its will on the sikh quam and the sikh quam fought back. then how can we become hypocrites and behave in the same manner?

Seems like you have been reading too many anti-movement books, it doesnt require half a brain cell to figure out that Panjab is really in the pits. Had the social reform movement succeeded then its guaranteed that we would not be in the mess we are in now.

As Harbhajan Talwar (yes another panjabi singer) puts it: Chihri Sohnay Di Ban Gi Hai Paap Di Mandhi

[mann_kaum_layee_qurbaan]

i'm 100% pro-movement. I'm 100% anti terrorism.

for me personally, killing chamkila was not a anakhi act. killing an unarmed man for singing dirty punjabi songs seems like the work for common thugs. and the killing of chamkila has always been shrouded in mystery, it's interesting that you've put names to the killers of chamkila.

"After receiving more letters from angry fans saying Chamkila you have many songs containing vulgar and offensive lyrics. Do something good. Chamkila produced 3 LP records of dharmik geet (religious songs). His religious songs became number 1 hits. Chamkila however, only wrote a few religious songs himself. Most of them he bought from other writers. All profits that came from the religious songs went direct to the charities and local gurudwara's. This was done as Chamkila said it was God who gave him the gift of music and what better way to say thank you to God.

By late 1985 Chamkila stopped singing his more offensive songs. The public was still unhappy and wanted Chamkila to stop singing altogether. Chamkila started to write and sing songs which were of a very serious nature.

Chamkila was killed in a show in "Mesumpur" as he stepped out of his car. Amarjyot was pregnant at the time and was shot in the chest and Chamkila was killed with 4 bullets in the chest alongside Gill Surjit and the dholki player Raja. The other members such as Tukham escaped. The blame was put on terrorists. A Curfew order took place when Chamkila was killed and riots between gangs broke out.

Chamkila died on the 8th March 1988. The reasoning behind his death is not fully known. Many people have speculated that Chamkila was killed because of jealousy of other singers. It is said that the others singers grouped together and got him killed. But then again their were many other popular singers, Why Chamkila? "

found this on some forum: http://www.wass-up.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65242

i'm all for social reform. this comes with parchar and leading by example as baba bhindrawaala did.

i also visit punjab frequently and am fluent in punjabi, read and wrte it as well, so yes i understand tootak tootak tutiyaan. yes there were bad apples, but even sikhi has many many bad apples. you have baba maan singh raping women, vedanti attending RSS events, Badal's whole family worshipping Ashutosh, members of delhi sikh community threatening fellow sikhs from filing cases against the guilty:

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040603/ncr.htm#1

gurdwaras being used as cash cows, etc etc.

My point being that living the life you want people to adopt is the best social reform. there is no moral authority that the SGPC or any "panthic" org has to tell people of punjab to live a certain way.

anyways, I'm getting off topic.

i haven't been reading any anti-movements books, all i hav eto do is read any indian newspapera nd i get my dose of anti-movement propaganda.

my stand is that the sikh movement was a fight against state repression. when did it become a movement for imposing sikh rehit on people? this is the failure of the movement, no clear goal, no vision. just a bunch of uncoordinated chaos after baba jarnail singh ji.

the sikh quam is such a small quam, and after the attack on darbar sahib, we saw a million kharkoo groups spring up to fight for hundreds of different things. KCF, KLF, BTF, SSF, BK, BKI, ISYF, etc etc god knows how many more....there was no central command, no common aim or goal, it was an uncoordinated effort which was very very easy for the gov't to infiltrate. then you had your chamkila killer types who thought that killing unarmed singers etc was going to win the people over. sikhs have higher standards than that.

ok i really wanted to stop posting on this issue, but i felt that your post deserved a response. i just want to end that, on the walls of guru ghars and in people's homes, the shaheeds pictures are hung. those shaheeds who are parwaan and hailed by the sikhs quam are the likes of bhai sukha and jinda, bhai beant singh and satwant singh, bhai dilawar singh, etc etc what do these people have in common, they took the fight to the enemy, not the punjabi people.

look, we both want the same thing, your opinion on the movement and its scope is different than mine, and its all good. we both want to see punjab prosper and want to see its people be healthy and vibrant. no issues there. how to accomplish this is the issue, and unfortunatley thsi debate has stalled any movement from occurring or succeeding.

take care brother. sorry if i offended you in any way. at the end of the day, we're both children of the same Guru.

peace.

[B4ND4]

why are you guys writing essay length posts on such a stupid thread? chill yaaro.. malkit singh piche panga pe gaya

[Babbar Shere]

^^^^totally went off topic.

the topic was about malkit singh, and i said hes a homo becasue he wants to put singh after his name, but too bad he has no clue what "singh" really looks like.

and to everybody who said anything about "freedom of speech" or whatever the hell that was, it makes no sence.

there is no freedom when you insult the kaum.

dancing with naked girls and drinking booze is not promoting punjabi language. buecause people will pay attention to naked girls weather there is sound on that tv. or not. so dont bring in any of that crap about how americans and englands support rape, becasue were not american and were not england, so bringing up those examaples is pointless.

there should be no support given to anybody who puts singh after their name, and then goes off and do things like drink, and dance half naked women. no support at all. before anything in this world, before any profession, before any rank, before anything, we are born sikh, and thats all that matters

thats all daas's gotta say.

[DashmeshForce]

i'm 100% pro-movement. I'm 100% anti terrorism.

for me personally, killing chamkila was not a anakhi act. killing an unarmed man for singing dirty punjabi songs seems like the work for common thugs. and the killing of chamkila has always been shrouded in mystery, it's interesting that you've put names to the killers of chamkila.

"After receiving more letters from angry fans saying Chamkila you have many songs containing vulgar and offensive lyrics. Do something good. Chamkila produced 3 LP records of dharmik geet (religious songs). His religious songs became number 1 hits. Chamkila however, only wrote a few religious songs himself. Most of them he bought from other writers. All profits that came from the religious songs went direct to the charities and local gurudwara's. This was done as Chamkila said it was God who gave him the gift of music and what better way to say thank you to God.

By late 1985 Chamkila stopped singing his more offensive songs. The public was still unhappy and wanted Chamkila to stop singing altogether. Chamkila started to write and sing songs which were of a very serious nature.

Chamkila was killed in a show in "Mesumpur" as he stepped out of his car. Amarjyot was pregnant at the time and was shot in the chest and Chamkila was killed with 4 bullets in the chest alongside Gill Surjit and the dholki player Raja. The other members such as Tukham escaped. The blame was put on terrorists. A Curfew order took place when Chamkila was killed and riots between gangs broke out.

Chamkila died on the 8th March 1988. The reasoning behind his death is not fully known. Many people have speculated that Chamkila was killed because of jealousy of other singers. It is said that the others singers grouped together and got him killed. But then again their were many other popular singers, Why Chamkila? "

found this on some forum: http://www.wass-up.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65242

Notice the emphasis on the word PUBLIC? Yet you said general people had no problem with singers? Sorry bro you can have it both ways. What the hell did rioting between gangs have to do with Chamkilas death? Chamkila wasnt Tupac or Biggie.

Gurnek Singh 'Neka' was living at village Mesampur when Chamkila came there for an akhara, and its Gurnek Singh Neka & Gurdeep Singh Deepa who were credited for Chamkilas killing and in the Doaba region of Panjab, Deepa is a big hero in everyones eyes. Stories of his bravery and actions are narrated till this very day.

i'm all for social reform. this comes with parchar and leading by example as baba bhindrawaala did.

Dont forget Sant Jarnail Singh has also many times been wrongly accused of 'forcing' Sikhi upon non-believers & that those who did not agree with him were killed, so you should very well know not to believe everything you read about the Sikh freedom movement.

i also visit punjab frequently and am fluent in punjabi, read and wrte it as well, so yes i understand tootak tootak tutiyaan. yes there were bad apples, but even sikhi has many many bad apples. you have baba maan singh raping women, vedanti attending RSS events, Badal's whole family worshipping Ashutosh, members of delhi sikh community threatening fellow sikhs from filing cases against the guilty:

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040603/ncr.htm#1

gurdwaras being used as cash cows, etc etc.

These are the very people who were targetted by the Jujharoos, the Kharkoos eliminated many paapis and dushts in high positions. In terms of social reform these very guys would be targets, but then on other hand if they were wiped out, just for the sake of argument someone like you would say flanna was a real sant and shouldnt have been killed or the man was the 'pope' and Badal was the leader of the Sikhs and should have been dealt with in a different manner.

my stand is that the sikh movement was a fight against state repression. when did it become a movement for imposing sikh rehit on people? this is the failure of the movement, no clear goal, no vision. just a bunch of uncoordinated chaos after baba jarnail singh ji.

the sikh quam is such a small quam, and after the attack on darbar sahib, we saw a million kharkoo groups spring up to fight for hundreds of different things. KCF, KLF, BTF, SSF, BK, BKI, ISYF, etc etc god knows how many more....there was no central command, no common aim or goal, it was an uncoordinated effort which was very very easy for the gov't to infiltrate. then you had your chamkila killer types who thought that killing unarmed singers etc was going to win the people over. sikhs have higher standards than that.

Who says it was a movement to impose Sikh rehit on people? Muslims in India were outraged at Sania Mirza wearing miniskirts whilst playing tennis, Hindus jump up and down on everything going against them in India. Its a matter of morals, and we know Panjabis pride is its izzat

So why can Panjabis & Sikhs not sort a few people in the 'pehla samjha loh, nahi tah fir ta loh' (first explain, else floor them) method as they do well? Chamkila was warned many times, he didnt stop, he was punished. Malkit Singh made a mistake, was threatened, he apologized to the community and was forgiven.

ok i really wanted to stop posting on this issue, but i felt that your post deserved a response. i just want to end that, on the walls of guru ghars and in people's homes, the shaheeds pictures are hung. those shaheeds who are parwaan and hailed by the sikhs quam are the likes of bhai sukha and jinda, bhai beant singh and satwant singh, bhai dilawar singh, etc etc what do these people have in common, they took the fight to the enemy, not the punjabi people.

So u believe that the above mentioned Singhs are kaumi parwanay, but others on the same level of thinking as you would also argue with a pro-Khalistani that when Beant Sio was killed, there were innocents around and so-forth so wasnt that taking the fight to the Panjabi people? Anyway in case you didnt know Gurdeep Singh Deepa who killed Chamkila was no thug who was out to kill people who sang dirty songs, he was one of the greatest hitmen of the movement and took out many big name dushts of the Doaba region.

look, we both want the same thing, your opinion on the movement and its scope is different than mine, and its all good. we both want to see punjab prosper and want to see its people be healthy and vibrant. no issues there. how to accomplish this is the issue, and unfortunatley thsi debate has stalled any movement from occurring or succeeding.

take care brother. sorry if i offended you in any way. at the end of the day, we're both children of the same Guru.

If you are pro-movement you should learn to defend the actions of those Singhs who went all out, unlike us sitting in the west. Sure there were bad apples in the movement who joined for personal gains etc and they should be spoken against, but the ones mentioned in the above cases were Sachay & Soochay Soormay who do not deserve their name to be dragged through the mud.

[Guest militant singh]

thm manz who killed pub ownerz & ruined weddingz totaly mashed up da movement,whts killin da boss of da local lpub gna do?get u Khalistan?

sorry buh if Khalistan is gna be talibanstan i dnt wnt it