Who Is A Gurmukh

[besoft]

Dear Munjoth ji,

I cannot believe that a person can have so much knowledge about the nature [human].You must have spent lot of time on studying and assimilating and then putting into practice. It is the most wonderful exposition of contemporary commentary.Kudos.

I shall ask you for a favor.

Kindly suggest some site where I can also learn and become a true practsing Sikh.I cannot wait to become An Amritdhari and spend the rest of life as a Khalas.

Regards.

[munjoth]

Dear Munjoth ji,

I cannot believe that a person can have so much knowledge about the nature [human].You must have spent lot of time on studying and assimilating and then putting into practice. It is the most wonderful exposition of contemporary commentary.Kudos.

veer ji, just like you i spent a few years looking for a guide, someone to tell me what guru granth sahib ji was saying..lucky for me i only had to goto a few fake baba, in gurbani they are called 'kaal di sant' gurbani says SANT ANARI MAYA NAAL LOOJA - they are attached to this trigun and then bani says KATHNI NAAH SOOJA they will do katha, they will copy the real sants BUT they will never understand.

Gurbani says when guru is happy with you he blesses with you with the saadh/sat sangat and to verify that you are attending the satsangat here are a few 'nishaani' (signs) that you have found the saadh sangat:

SAT SANGAT KAASI JAANIA JITHA IKO NAAM VIKAHNAI

and gurbani further clarifies what roop (form) naam takes in the sat sangat:

AKATH KATHA HAR NAAM HAI

Personally i have been getting sat sangat of those gurmukhs who have reached naam, who are at those levels we discussed in the previous posts. I myself am trying to get a paka assan at satogun so i can cross over! But this requires practice, learning the theory won't take long BUT the practical is where its at, the proof is in the pudding!

Just by dong sat sangat of a bhagat WHO IS AT SOOKHMEHAL our sins are washed away: NANAK BHAGATA SAADA VIGAAS SUNAI DOOKH PAAP KAA NAAS

shall ask you for a favor.

Kindly suggest some site where I can also learn and become a true practsing Sikh

The only site i can suggest is www.simran.info the person performing the akath katha is bhai sewa singh ji, he has done the practical and achieved highest status of the mind. Having done the practical he is now teaching others how to get there. In the uk we have Bhai Ajit Singh who also done the practical and is now teaching others....

In gurbani it says: SATGUR SATSANGAT CHITSAAL HAI JITHA HAR GUN SIKHA

the satsangat is a school, where we goto learn 'hari di gun' the teacher is the one who has vaasa at the 4th state, and the principal of the school is Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

I sent you a message asking for your location, what country that is. There are other gurmukh who have done the practical in other countries such as america, canada, and europe. If you are from india you can go and visit the gurdwara 'prabh milne ka chao' and meet bhai sewa singh directly.

.I cannot wait to become An Amritdhari and spend the rest of life as a Khalas.

This is a most wonderful thing to hear! Lets briefly discuss who guru ji calls khalsa:

kahu kabeer jan bheae khaalasae praem bhagath jih jaanee ||4||3||

Bhagat Kabeer Ji

Raag Sorath

655

kabir ji here says those are khalsa who realise bhagati!

where does bhagati begin?

TRIGUN MITTA CHAUTHA VAARTHI OONHA BHAGAT NIRAALI

bhagati becomes once we rise above the trigun!

Here again guru gobind singh ji tells us about the khalsa:

pooran joth jagai ghatt mai thab khaalas thaahi nakhaalas jaanai ||

at the moment we are nakhaalsa because we dont have the JYOTH, and those that do are the true khalsa! this again

is when we go chautha paad, not in the trigun!

Besoft ji we must first become sant, then present ourselves before guru roop punj pyara who will then give us the 3 gifts: So Gur Karo Jo Saach Dhrirh Akath Kathai Shabad Milae. Me being a moorkah took amrit before even reaching this status, my jeevan was tamogun but once i got the right sangat i realised the gifts that the punj are suppose to give us AND i realised the status of the mind before taking amrit.

[munjoth]

we shall discuss why we need to goto the sant first, how the sant sends u to the guru (punj) and then the guru sends u to the satguru, as per gurbani.

We'll also look at the sewa sangat, sewa of a sant, sewa of guru and sewa of satguru - what each of the sewas are AND where each sewa takes u.

[UKGupt Kaur]

we shall discuss why we need to goto the sant first, how the sant sends u to the guru (punj) and then the guru sends u to the satguru, as per gurbani.

We'll also look at the sewa sangat, sewa of a sant, sewa of guru and sewa of satguru - what each of the sewas are AND where each sewa takes u.

I am far from being a Gurmukh.

To me Gurbani (Guru ji) and like minded Gursikhs are my 'Sant'. I dont need to go looking for a human 'Sant'.

Why do we need an 'intermediary'?

[OhTwadi]

.

[munjoth]

I am far from being a Gurmukh.

To me Gurbani (Guru ji) and like minded Gursikhs are my 'Sant'. I dont need to go looking for a human 'Sant'.

Why do we need an 'intermediary'?

Hunji i am also far from being a gurmukh, terms like gursikh - sant are used far too loosely. this is fine if you do not want to do sangat with sants.

Gurbani outlines EACH AVAASTA in fine detail, so NO BODY can make a fool of another person, no body can portray themselves to be something there not.

A gursikh is at this avaasta: JO SAAS GIRAAS DIYHI MERA HAR HAR SO GURSIKH GURU MAAN PAAVAI

Now lets discuss who is sant as per gurbani, extracts taken from an article by rabinder singh:

Sant is assigned the location where Anhad Sabad of God goes on all the time. Sant relishes this Anahad Sabad/Bani/Dhun

"Teh geet Naad akharay sanga. Oohan Bhagat karay Har ranga." p-739

Now what is duty of a sant:

Sants will brief the seekers on 'akath katha' the invisible path to reach the Supreme Being. This is their assignment.

"Kahaiy Nanak suno Santo katheo kath khanee." p-918

Where a sant is suppose to guide you to:

The Sants have access to the Spiritual wealth of Anhad Bani and holds the key to this.They can help the seeker to this Anhad Sabad:

"Anhad banee poonji. Santan hath rakhee koonji." p-893

Now sewa of a sant, many people here are MISINFORMED they think going to some dera touching a sants feet, doing all the choirs for a sant are his sewa GURBANI says other wise:

SANT KI SEWA NAAM DHAIYA

now once one has reached the anhad bani the sant then sends the seeker to GURU:

who is first guru? first guru is PUNJ PYARA - they give you the 3 things: SO GUR KARO JO SACH DHRIRH AKATH KATHAI SHABAD MILAE

BUT heres the catch in order to convince the punj we must do sewa of the guru, now what is this sewa: GUR SEWA GUR BHAGAT HAI - now from pervious posts it is clear that bhagati takes place chautha paad.

Now the punj have given u darshan of saach, once they remove the 'paardah' u will have darshan 24/7 BUT u havent met god yet, its like seeing someone on stage but not actually talking to them. So the guru sends you to the SATGURUS DOOR.

*note* once punj have given you the gifts they tell you that ur guru from then on is guru granth sahib ji AND we are to ask for guidence from guru ji only: POOCH CHALO GUR APNA and GURMILAE GURSHANK OOTHAAR

Where is this door? What is the status of the mind at the door:

"Sookh mehal jan kay ooch dwaray.Ta meh vassay bhagat piaaray." p-739

Now in order to open this door and meet the satguru we must first convince the satguru that we are worthy, once the mind reaches here it must wait until the satguru opens the door from the inside. what is the sewa:

NAARDI SATGUR SEWAIYA NAARDI SEWA HOI and once the satguru is satisfied he will open the final door and give u this:

BIN NAAMI MUKT NAAH PAVA KOEI BIN SATGUR KOEI NAAM NAA PAI

This is the basic outline, it goes in much finer detail but only those that do the practical shall understand.

[UKGupt Kaur]

we shall discuss why we need to goto the sant first, how the sant sends u to the guru (punj) and then the guru sends u to the satguru, as per gurbani.

We'll also look at the sewa sangat, sewa of a sant, sewa of guru and sewa of satguru - what each of the sewas are AND where each sewa takes u.

(This is my view and I could be wrong.)

We still do not need a "middle men" to take us to Guruji. Its waheguru's kirpa that we need in the first place to enable us to meet Guruji ie (Gurbani which has Guru ji's mat which is also Nirankar). We long for like minded company.

Gur ki seva is what Jap ji Sahib tells us ie listening with surt and dhian, obeying Guru ji's command without doubt and putting it in to practical use in our daily lifes.

Couple of links below:

"ਕਿਸੁ ਹਉ ਸੇਵੀ ਕਿਆ ਜਪੁ ਕਰੀ ਸਤਗੁਰ ਪੂਛਉ ਜਾਇ ॥

kis ho saevee kiaa jap karee sathagur pooshho jaae ||

Whom shall I serve? What shall I chant? I will go and ask the Guru." .... read the rest on Ang http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=107

siqgur bcn kmwvxy scw eyhu vIcwru ]

sathigur bachan kamaavanae sachaa eaehu veechaar ||

Act according to the Instructions of the True Guru; this is the true philosophy.

ibnu swDU sMgiq riqAw mwieAw mohu sBu Cwru ]1]

bin saadhhoo sa(n)gath rathiaa maaeiaa mohu sabh shhaar ||1||

Without being attuned to the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, all attachment to Maya is just dust. ||1||

read the rest http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=152

saddhoo or sant sangat etc is you and me who are as you already said "SAT SANGAT KAASI JAANIA JITHA IKO NAAM VIKAHNAI"

We are the ones who need to work towards finding our "true home" and the only way to do this is via Guruji (Gurbani) all with Waheguroo's kirpa.

[munjoth]

penji i do not wish to cause arguements, but what gurbani says is attal, the difference between our two posts is that it is not me who is saying this, it is the guru, read everything ive posted and nowhere i have said 'i' think this...if we use our own thinking we will never cross this bhav sagar/agaan sagar/bik sagar.

We still do not need a "middle men" to take us to Guruji. Its waheguru's kirpa that we need in the first place to enable us to meet Guruji ie (Gurbani which has Guru ji's mat which is also Nirankar). We long for like minded company.

Reading the rest of your post and the gurbani you have posted, gurbani will demonstrate otherwise.

saddhoo or sant sangat etc is you and me who are as you already said "SAT SANGAT KAASI JAANIA JITHA IKO NAAM VIKAHNAI"

We are the ones who need to work towards finding our "true home" and the only way to do this is via Guruji (Gurbani) all with Waheguroo's kirpa.

Sat sangat and saadh sangat, When we goto the gurdwara our main aim is to find our true home, find our route to the nijghar from there goto the sehaj ghar where vaheguru resides. When we goto the gurdwara the person on stage doing the katha is suppose to give us a teaching that would tell us how to travel across the bhav sagar.

Gurbani says: GURDWARA LAH PAAVNI IK NAH DAASMA DWAAR DIKHYA

Now say we goto the gurdwara and the katha vichiks mind is in the trigun (rajo, sato, tamo) - he hasnt travelled across the bhav sagar himself, he hasnt made it to the nijghar, all he is doing sitting on stage trying to earn a living. gurbani says we goto the sangat to wash our sins but instead of washing them we have infact gained sins why? Well when this giani/kathavachik will speak he will put chikaar on you (dirty) ..again why you ask and how? His vichaars will be in trigun, he will translate bani but all his meanings will be from trigun. In trigun there is only paap.

Now when we goto sangat and a sant, sadhu, bhagat or gurmukh (all signs of where they are listed in previous posts) will be doing katha, wot will happen? They will take there surat to sookhmehal if bhagat, or sacha shabad if sadhu, or sant is anhad shabads and take your surat as well....if its a bhagat they will japaa naam and cut the faahi that the jamdhoots have put around our necks.

In japji sahib we read: NANAK BHAGAT SAADH VIGAAS SUNAI DOOKH PAAP KAA NAAS.

again sadhu sangat: Aap shod benati karoh.Sadh sang agan sagar taro.

So mehima of saadh sangat is very high. But to say that say 'me and you' did sangat and call that saadh sangat? No this is incorrect, to call it saadh sangat one would have to have vaasa chautha paad (4th state).

the katha that a sant will perform is the following: "Kahaiy Nanak suno Santo katheo akath khanee." It will be akath katha

You are right in some sense that one will have to put his own efforts in, one will have to perform naam abhyaas - we learn how to play this game and then we must practice day and night to win it and this is done through simran! On the other hand saadh sangat is so high in kaalyug if a jeev just comes, sits does NOTHING and just sits there quietly one will also be taken across, how beautiful is the sangat!

Now this part of your post

sathigur bachan kamaavanae sachaa eaehu veechaar ||

Act according to the Instructions of the True Guru; this is the true philosophy.

You speak of following the instructions of the satguru, but have you ever heard the satgurus voice?...Have you asked guru what the satgurus voice is? Gurbani says the anhad bani is the satgurus voice, when we goto sleep we all go to his darbaar, and the satguru tells us how to play this game, what our roles are going to be in the game next day BUT because are minds are asleep we have no idea how we goto sleep, how we cross this bhav sagar and enter his domain...in the morning we wake up and realise nothing.

[munjoth]

nwmY hI qy suKu pweIAY scY sbid suhwie ]1]

naamai hee thae sukh paaeeai sachai sabadh suhaae ||1||

Through the Naam, peace is obtained; I am adorned and embellished by the True Word of the Shabad. ||1||

mn myry Anidnu jwgu hir cyiq ]

man maerae anadhin jaag har chaeth ||

O my mind, remain awake and aware night and day, and think of the Lord

From your link, firstly bani talks about teh naam, which in bani is also called 'sachaa shabad' but where is this sachaa shabad? THen there is an instruction

'MAAL GEHI MUNN NIRMAL HOEA AMRIT SAAR THEERHA NAI, SAAJAN MILAE SAAJNA SACHA SHABAD SMAE'

bani here is talking about internal, this amrit saar theerha is inside us, this saacha shabad is inside us.

Here bani is talking about the mind:

mn myry Anidnu jwgu hir cyiq ]

man maerae anadhin jaag har chaeth ||

O my mind, remain awake and aware night and day, and think of the Lord.

not being physically awake, that would not make sense and is not in gurmat. Where is this mind asleep and how do we wake it up:

Tin Gunni Sansaar Param Soota Sutai Raanvihani Gur Kirpa Teh Seh Jun Jaagi ||

through the gurus kirpa the mind is awakened, then we ask guru what is this kirpa:

Simar Simar Simar Gur Apna Soeya Munn Jigaye

Through Simran can this sleeping mind be awoken.

again here:

jo jwgy sy aubry sUqy gey muhwie ]

jo jaagae sae oubarae soothae geae muhaae ||

Those who remain awake and aware are saved, while those who sleep are plundered.

scw sbdu n pCwixE supnw gieAw ivhwie ]

sachaa sabadh n pashhaaniou supanaa gaeiaa vihaae ||

They do not recognize the True Word of the Shabad, and like a dream, their lives fade away.

We must do simran and get to this sacha shabad, you posted this bani to me but my question to you is have you woken up this sleeping mind? Do you hear this sacha shabad that bani talks about.

finally in that shabad bani explains going from sacha shabad to his daar (court/place). If we havent even got to the sacha shabad how can we say we obey the satgurus hukum? We can't even hear his voice.

[UKGupt Kaur]

I agree with your sangat comment. Its difficult to find true saddh/sat sangat.

As to needing a "middle man" - that will always be Guru Ji and I will only beg to Waheguroo Akal Purakh to bring me to Guruji (Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji which is akath katha). Only Guruji can guide me to my true home ie in me.

I am keeping it simple.