Who Is A Gurmukh

[UKGupt Kaur]

If we havent even got to the sacha shabad how can we say we obey the satgurus hukum? We can't even hear his voice.

We need to obey satguru ji's hukam (Guru ji's bachan) first to get to the destination not the other way round. Sacha shabad is Gurbani. How do we become "sach" is the question.

There is no "voice" or "bells" ringing etc when you get there. The place where you are lead to is indescribable.

[munjoth]

I agree with your sangat comment. Its difficult to find true saddh/sat sangat.

As to needing a "middle man" - that will always be Guru Ji and I will only beg to Waheguroo Akal Purakh to bring me to Guruji (Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji which is akath katha). Only Guruji can guide me to my true home ie in me.

I am keeping it simple.

I agree with you, to actually find saadh sangat, i know why you are reclutent about the middle man because there are so many kaal di sant (saints of the devil) gurbani warns us about these: SANT ANARI MAYA NAAL LOOJA (they are sants that are only after money) and then bani says KATHNI NAAH SOOJA (they will never realise this akath katha).

The second part, i guess this is up to you. Guru Granth Sahib Ji has already stated the need to meet those that have met god. And im not talking about some dera baba either.

As for understand guru granth sahib jis bani, Gurbani even tells us if u want understand bani do this:

Eh Hi Bani Mahapurkhan Ki Nijghar Vaasa Hoe

You can interpret this in two ways. Goto Nijghar your self and when you go there you will understand gurbani. Second, an example. When we goto a foreign country we usually require a translator to translate what is being said. Now we want to understand gurbani, but bani is saying if u want to understand me then u gotta come nijghar. Now we havent gone to nijghar so what do we do? We find a translator, one who has vaasa in the nijghar.

aah such is the time of kalyug there are so many sants and babas its too difficult to find the true gems. A request to you though tell me this, we read jap ji saab every day right? And you accept bani as akath katha right? In jap ji sahib it tells you the following:

Our mool (starting point)

What naam is

Where is saachkhand

How astool (physical) maya was made

How sookham (unseen) maya was made

How this earth was made

How our physical body was made

I read the same jap ji saab for many years and couldnt answer these questions, i then had sangat and i was so surprised when i realised the bani had been reading for many years explained this. My benti to you is goto www.simran.info/pmkc listen to abit of the akath katha and tell me your views after.

[munjoth]

We need to obey satguru ji's hukam (Guru ji's bachan) first to get to the destination not the other way round. Sacha shabad is Gurbani. How do we become "sach" is the question.

There is no "voice" or "bells" ringing etc when you get there. The place where you are lead to is indescribable.

This is most misleading, bani explains other wise: Here is bani about sacha shabad, or sehaj dhun --- TERA MUKH SAUHAVA SEHAJ DHUN BANI, when i say voice im not talking about a voice that speaks punjabi or english or something The laka is ANHAD the language there is ANHAD, ANHAD BANI.

the sacha shabad is wot came from vahegurus MUKH - and what happened?

NAAM KI THAARI KHAND BRAHAMAND.

[munjoth]

Lets not discuss satgurus hukum lets first discuss gurus hukum, what is gurus hukum?

guru says DHAN MUN DHUN SAAB SAUNP GUR KO HUKUM MANYA PAAEYA

saying to the give me MIND your BODY and the DHUN (wealth) But what wealth does our guru speak of? Guru is talking about the breathe. the wealth that we are sent here with. Guru says give me your MIND, BODY and BREATHE.

So you say okay Guru Ji i give you my MIND, BODY and WEALTH OF THE BREATHE. Now guru says to you right today i want you to do assan in the nijghar and spend your breathes in the nirgun (this means have no furnai [thoughts] at all) ...we say 'err but guru ji we dont goto the nijghar and our thoughts dont even stop for a second' Slight problem in accepting hukum? Guru says okay today u go into trigun and i want you to only do ur livelihood, and come back home (nijghar)..okay so we goto the trigun what happens..we go from livelihood...to materialistic thirsts desires worries anxieties and we dont ever return to the nijghar we get stuck here..again we didnt obey hukum?

Yet we say we have given you our mind, body and wealth of the breath..yet at the same time we can't control our minds nor can we control how our breathes are spent.

This is why guru says 'pehala maran kabool kar jeevan kee shaad aas' guru is saying first learn to die, this means rise above the trigun so all your thoughts die. then the pankti finishes with 'thaa au humari paas' when u achieve this THEN COME TO ME.

[UKGupt Kaur]

I agree with your sangat comment. Its difficult to find true saddh/sat sangat.

As to needing a "middle man" - that will always be Guru Ji and I will only beg to Waheguroo Akal Purakh to bring me to Guruji (Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji which is akath katha). Only Guruji can guide me to my true home ie in me.

I am keeping it simple.

I agree with you, to actually find saadh sangat, i know why you are reclutent about the middle man because there are so many kaal di sant (saints of the devil) gurbani warns us about these: SANT ANARI MAYA NAAL LOOJA (they are sants that are only after money) and then bani says KATHNI NAAH SOOJA (they will never realise this akath katha).

The second part, i guess this is up to you. Guru Granth Sahib Ji has already stated the need to meet those that have met god. And im not talking about some dera baba either.

As for understand guru granth sahib jis bani, Gurbani even tells us if u want understand bani do this:

Eh Hi Bani Mahapurkhan Ki Nijghar Vaasa Hoe

You can interpret this in two ways. Goto Nijghar your self and when you go there you will understand gurbani. Second, an example. When we goto a foreign country we usually require a translator to translate what is being said. Now we want to understand gurbani, but bani is saying if u want to understand me then u gotta come nijghar. Now we havent gone to nijghar so what do we do? We find a translator, one who has vaasa in the nijghar.

aah such is the time of kalyug there are so many sants and babas its too difficult to find the true gems. A request to you though tell me this, we read jap ji saab every day right? And you accept bani as akath katha right? In jap ji sahib it tells you the following:

Our mool (starting point)

What naam is

Where is saachkhand

How astool (physical) maya was made

How sookham (unseen) maya was made

How this earth was made

How our physical body was made

I read the same jap ji saab for many years and couldnt answer these questions, i then had sangat and i was so surprised when i realised the bani had been reading for many years explained this. My benti to you is goto www.simran.info/pmkc listen to abit of the akath katha and tell me your views after.

A real "Sant" is one in a million. If I meet him or her thats all well and good - will greet fateh to him or her thats all.

The rest I leave in Akal Purakhs hand. This shabad keertan comes to mind

http://www.rajkaregakhalsa.net/audio/Kirtan/Bhai%20Harjinder%20Singh%20Sri%20Nagar%20wale/Tu%20Samrath%20Wadda.mp3

"

qU smrQu vfw myrI miq QorI rwm ]

too samrath vadaa mayree mat thoree raam.

You are great and all-powerful; my understanding is so inadequate, O Lord."

read the rest here http://www.rajkaregakhalsa.net/Gurbani/Amr...an/tr_0271.html

(p/s: No thanks to the link provided. :D as I dont agree with tarmala's understanding in certain areas)

Re: Japji Sahib - Why not ask how we can be truthful.? How can we be Sach (sat) that we can realise Naam which is "sat" - Ek Ongkar Sat Naam

The answers to most of the other questions you have asked are in Gurbani (Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji).

[UKGupt Kaur]

Lets not discuss satgurus hukum lets first discuss gurus hukum, what is gurus hukum?

guru says DHAN MUN DHUN SAAB SAUNP GUR KO HUKUM MANYA PAAEYA

saying to the give me MIND your BODY and the DHUN (wealth) But what wealth does our guru speak of? Guru is talking about the breathe. the wealth that we are sent here with. Guru says give me your MIND, BODY and BREATHE.

So you say okay Guru Ji i give you my MIND, BODY and WEALTH OF THE BREATHE. Now guru says to you right today i want you to do assan in the nijghar and spend your breathes in the nirgun (this means have no furnai [thoughts] at all) ...we say 'err but guru ji we dont goto the nijghar and our thoughts dont even stop for a second' Slight problem in accepting hukum? Guru says okay today u go into trigun and i want you to only do ur livelihood, and come back home (nijghar)..okay so we goto the trigun what happens..we go from livelihood...to materialistic thirsts desires worries anxieties and we dont ever return to the nijghar we get stuck here..again we didnt obey hukum?

Yet we say we have given you our mind, body and wealth of the breath..yet at the same time we can't control our minds nor can we control how our breathes are spent.

This is why guru says 'pehala maran kabool kar jeevan kee shaad aas' guru is saying first learn to die, this means rise above the trigun so all your thoughts die. then the pankti finishes with 'thaa au humari paas' when u achieve this THEN COME TO ME.

Guru's hukam is Guru ji's bachan. You are doing vichaar on Guru ji's Hukam here. Thats actually already a step to obeying Guru ji.! I did not need a middle man to tell me this. You may need some guide from sangat and or from books but the rest is 'intuition' ie Guru ji's kirpa, pass kamaee etc.

[munjoth]

A real "Sant" is one in a million. If I meet him or her thats all well and good - will greet fateh to him or her thats all.

This is quite the opposite, a sant is not one in a million - the first nishaan (sign) that we have crossed the bhav sagar is we get the anhad shabad/anhad bani....and gurbani says if you have this call your self a sant (status of a mind).

The title sant is so glamourised we havent even asked gurbani who sant is, believe me when i say sant is not the highest status.

Gurbani also says if u meet such a person do this POOCHO SANTO MERA THAKUR KAASA.

Re: Japji Sahib - Why not ask how we can be truthful.? How can we be Sach (sat) that we can realise Naam which is "sat" - Ek Ongkar Sat Naam

You mis interpreted what i said. Secondly ik onakar..gurbani says understand how we came from IK to ONKAR (trigun)...notice the top of the onkar is left open...gurbani is saying although in the trigun there is still a path back. what is sat naam? There was sat in the beginning from his mukh came this naam..SATNAAM (tera mukh sohava sehaj dhun bani)

Beautiful bani here:

First gurbani shows us true humility and then does this benti:

saran tayree rakh layho mayree sarab mai niranjanaa.

But, what 'saran' is gurbani talking about...where do the gurus saran become paragat ...this saran is the anhad shabad that take us across the bhav sagar.

By reading this bani one does not become it, firstly the avasta bani is talking about is where one is on tamogun. The mind is doing benti for help:

mwieAw moih mgnu kiF lyhu murwrI rwm ]

maa-i-aa mohi magan kadh layho muraaree raam.

I am intoxicated with the love of Maya - save me, Lord!

Then guru is dyaloo (compassionate) and tells us how we can cross over maya (trigun: RAJGUN SATGUN TAMGUN EHI KAHYA TERI SAAB MAYA):

Aap shod benati karoh.Sadh sang agan sagar taro

[munjoth]

uru's hukam is Guru ji's bachan. You are doing vichaar on Guru ji's Hukam here. Thats actually already a step to obeying Guru ji.! I did not need a middle man to tell me this. You may need some guide from sangat and or from books but the rest is 'intuition' ie Guru ji's kirpa, pass kamaee etc.

I dont understand...guru ji's hukum is guru jis bachan..please find some gurbani to back this up because we read: DHUN MUN DHAN SAAB SAUP GUR KO HUKUM MANIYA PAEYA (when we give the guru these 3 things then we obey his hukum)...and then i further explained how this is done.

books and bhagati ...books wont tell you how to rise above trigun only poora guru can and our poora guru is shabad guru.

[UKGupt Kaur]

We need to obey satguru ji's hukam (Guru ji's bachan) first to get to the destination not the other way round. Sacha shabad is Gurbani. How do we become "sach" is the question.

There is no "voice" or "bells" ringing etc when you get there. The place where you are lead to is indescribable.

This is most misleading, bani explains other wise: Here is bani about sacha shabad, or sehaj dhun --- TERA MUKH SAUHAVA SEHAJ DHUN BANI, when i say voice im not talking about a voice that speaks punjabi or english or something The laka is ANHAD the language there is ANHAD, ANHAD BANI.

the sacha shabad is wot came from vahegurus MUKH - and what happened?

NAAM KI THAARI KHAND BRAHAMAND.

I dont see the point you are making.

Yes Gurbani says that Sacha shabad is Gurbani and also is in us.

Yes shabad/naam/bani/anhad dhuni is in us ie true home. Yes shabad Gurbani states that in "sehaj" that we realise Akal Purakh as Sikhi is a path of "Sahaj Maarag".

"shjY no sB locdI ibnu gur pwieAw n jwie ]

sehajai no sabh lochadhee bin gur paaeiaa n jaae ||

Everyone longs to be centered and balanced, but without the Guru, no one can.

piV piV pMifq joqkI Qky ByKI Brim Bulwey ]

parr parr pa(n)ddith jothakee thhakae bhaekhee bharam bhulaaeae ||

The Pandits and the astrologers read and read until they grow weary, while the fanatics are deluded by doubt.

gur Byty shju pwieAw AwpxI ikrpw kry rjwie ]1]

gur bhaettae sehaj paaeiaa aapanee kirapaa karae rajaae ||1||

Meeting with the Guru, intuitive balance is obtained, when God, in His Will, grants His Grace. ||1||

BweI ry gur ibnu shju n hoie ]

bhaaee rae gur bin sehaj n hoe ||

O Siblings of Destiny, without the Guru, intuitive balance is not obtained.

sbdY hI qy shju aUpjY hir pwieAw scu soie ]1] rhwau ]

sabadhai hee thae sehaj oopajai har paaeiaa sach soe ||1|| rehaao ||

Through the Word of the Shabad, intuitive peace and poise wells up, and that True Lord is obtained. ||1||Pause||

shjy gwivAw Qwie pvY ibnu shjY kQnI bwid ]

sehajae gaaviaa thhaae pavai bin sehajai kathhanee baadh ||

That which is sung intuitively is acceptable; without this intuition, all chanting is useless.

shjy hI Bgiq aUpjY shij ipAwir bYrwig ]

sehajae hee bhagath oopajai sehaj piaar bairaag ||

In the state of intuitive balance, devotion wells up. In intuitive balance, love is balanced and detached.

shjY hI qy suK swiq hoie ibnu shjY jIvxu bwid ]2]

sehajai hee thae sukh saath hoe bin sehajai jeevan baadh ||2||

In the state of intuitive balance, peace and tranquility are produced. Without intuitive balance, life is useless. ||2||

shij swlwhI sdw sdw shij smwiD lgwie ]

sehaj saalaahee sadhaa sadhaa sehaj samaadhh lagaae ||

In the state of intuitive balance, praise the Lord forever and ever. With intuitive ease, embrace Samaadhi.

shjy hI gux aUcrY Bgiq kry ilv lwie ]

sehajae hee gun oocharai bhagath karae liv laae ||

In the state of intuitive balance, chant His Glories, lovingly absorbed in devotional worship.

sbdy hI hir min vsY rsnw hir rsu Kwie ]3]

sabadhae hee har man vasai rasanaa har ras khaae ||3||

Through the Shabad, the Lord dwells within the mind, and the tongue tastes the Sublime Essence of the Lord. ||3||

Read the rest here http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=177

[munjoth]

challo penji, we are merely arguing now - and us moorkahs if we keep arguing won't let us progress to naam.. so what we'll do is do our abhyaas...and in about say 6th months we'll see how much we have progressed...if you get the sacha shabad before me then you be a penji and tell me how you got there...if i get there then ill tell you how i got there because it is a prem marg..and if we both get there..well then ill cu in the nijghar :D

AKAATHAR HOVO MILO MERA BHAI, DOOBA DHOOR, KARO LIV LAE