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Yes.. God speaks to the messengers.thats true... Quran was revealed By God to Prophet Muhammad ... There are examples.. signs and proof eevry where.. what make you not believe in Him?..

What I was implying was that the Bhagats did leave their teachings behind, they are compiled in the Shabad Guru.

What do you mean believe in 'him'? Believe in the Semetic Prophets?

Do humans not have a choice in what they get to believe?

The Bhagats if used as an example did not force their opinion or condemn humanity. By virtue of the beliefs of the semetic religions (religioustolerance.org), they condemn all people including everyone here to so-called 'hell' for being non-believers.

Do you ppl believe that the World will end?

Who are 'you ppl'? Is this a general question for all?

Scientific theory states that if the Universe began, it will eventually expand before collapsing. Whether or not this is True is irrelevant, all we can do with this current life is Live it.

But no, there is no statement declaring the end of the world, and based on the argument that Semetic scriptures (specifically the Bible being mis-translated) it does not appear that this is the statement made by Jesus himself.

Rather the description of the Universe is more in line with the following...

When asked do you not think it strange to be reincarnated into another life... Eleanour Rousevelt: I don’t think it would be any more bizarre for me to show up in another lifetime, than it was for me to show up in this one.

A useful analogy is as thus:

If we can imagine for a moment the vastness of the Universe and consider the Ocean of Energy that pervades it. In this way we can consider that in the very beginning before the Universe came into being, there was only that Ocean of Energy. If we were to take this idea and realize that the Ocean of Energy is the Watery Oceans of the earth, then we can consider from where do the drops of Soul (water) come from? Just as the droplets of rain have their source as the ocean, each soul originates from that One Source.

From the One Source came all these billions and trillions of droplets of life, each unique. In the same way the rain drops on the leaf of a plant high upon a mountain, or on a blade of grass in a field. The drop (individual unique soul) must join up into a stream (family). Henceforth the stream begins to follow a path with each changing season, and eventually it will meet into a river, or perhaps it does not and it reaches a pond far away from the ocean. Those that reach the river (congregation/like minded spiritualists), then surely the final step is to reach the ocean.

What of those who reach the pond, or never meet a stream or a river? The beauty of the cycles upon this earth is that they precipitate (pass on), and come again, until eventually all the droplets that have left the One Source, will come back once again. But this time it is unique and with an individual experience gained through the adventure of life.

The key to this analogy is understanding that from the One Source, many have risen, and eventually come high road or low road, will merge as a unique droplet into the Ocean of Energy that pervades all.

As above regards.

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http://www.panthic.org/news/130/ARTICLE/3902/2008-02-21.html

If Sikhism, is the true religion, how come it was created/revealed 300 years ago, and not at the beginning of time?

Which religion was created at the beginning of time? Only God existed at the beginning of time and while Sikhism accepts that spiritual progress was open to human beings for many years prior to the arrival of Guru Nanak Dev Ji, only after Guru Nanak Dev Ji came to this world did the pure merger (in Sach Khand) between our soul and God become possible for all, as the Name of God and the Scriptures of God (gurbani) were revealed.

Humans have existed for tens of thousands of years. They existed in North America and Asia with established cultures 10,000 years ago. That is much before any modern religion. What must have become of those poor souls?

If we accept the Islamic approach, we have one shot at life. If we're a success we go to Paradise and if not, we go to Dozak/Hell. But that leaves a lot of questions.

Is God perfectly Just and fair? If he is, then why are some people born Muslims and other born in other religions? Those people born in other religions will have a much greater struggle and test to become Muslims than those born in Muslim homes. But at the end, the reward is the same: Paradise. So why do some people have to work so much harder for the same result that others earn much more easily? It's not fair.

What about babies that are still born and die in the womb? What about babies that die shortly after birth? What purpose did their life have? Why would God create them and let them die so soon? Their life didn't have any real 'meaning' and they faced no real tests nor did they have the opportunity to embrace a faith.

Finally, going back to the question, what about the millions of people that came before Islam or the Semitic religions or even now, the millions of people that will never be exposed to Islam? Why are they treated so unfairly? What will become of them?

Sikhism has the answer to all these questions. The soul proceeds on a path through many lives. When it is ready, it finds Sikhism and is able to be liberated through meditation on Naam. If someone is good but hasn't received Naam, then maybe in their next life they will be given the opportunity. No one is consigned to eternal Hell. Those souls that came before Sikhism were on a path preparing themselves to receive the divine revelation. As they become ready, they will now get the opportunity to learn of Sikhism and be saved.

As for your questions about Guru Nanak: Mohammed was not born a "Muslim" and Christ was not born a Christian. Guru Nanak was born in a Hindu household but did not accept any Hindu ritual even in childhood including the 'sacred thread', etc. Guru Nanak tells how he was summoned to God's court and assigned the duty of spreading Naam and being God's messanger. The ang (page) with one example of such a verse is 150. Guru Nanak then took this divine message further than any other "Prophet". He travelled as far as China, Sri Lanka. Russia and Turkey. He may have travelled farther but historical proofs exist for the countries mentioned.

Guru Nanak's companion, Mardana was indeed a Sikh. The story of how he became a Sikh and the conditions he accepted are also recorded. In fact, when he died, he was cremated by Guru Nanak. If he were Muslim, he would have been buried.

Guru Nanak coined the phrase "Sikh" and used it to describe those on the Path of "Gurmat".

As for revealing the "holy book", Guru Nanak's verses are the "holy book". As he was receiving them, he wrote them in his own hand. What further proof does one need?

Quoted for truth, other posts are just other peoples opinion, this is the gurmat view.

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Guest peacemaker
Quoted for truth, other posts are just other peoples opinion, this is the gurmat view.

Some people have quoted other religious scriptues, so it wasn't just their view. Yes, that is the gurmat view and this is a Sikh forum, I know.

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Quoted for truth, other posts are just other peoples opinion, this is the gurmat view.

Some people have quoted other religious scriptues, so it wasn't just their view. Yes, that is the gurmat view and this is a Sikh forum, I know.

That doesn't make sense, is that not also a personal view?

Are we not allowed to express opinions, or are links to specific websites monopoly over the opinions of others here?

I gave several references to several varying sources for a more comprehensive understanding of the situation at hand, is that not a more comprehensive, thus holistic view?

The fact of the matter is, this is a divisive argument unless we closely scrutinize what we say. Did you even read the other posts?

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please don't take offence, sorry, i realise how stupid that post came out.

No offence taken on my part. However, we must be highly critical about the assumptions and statements we make. Scientific method opts for this critical appraisal before dissemination of any theory. The world is full of debate, but Truth is only obvious in the words of the mouth of those who are Truthful.

Nonetheless, is it not more prudent for us to be enlightened in our thoughts and words. I have heard some people say that punjabi-Sikh community is in such a state that they are constantly offended by everything. Just read the side news bar on any given day and you will see that is somewhat True.

Additionally, most of what we say we say out of EGO, me included. Because it is a part of human nature. The questions we should be asking are "What is the best answer for this situation", while praying "Lord, let Your Presence be within me as you use me as a tool to Serve".

These are the more important questions and tasks we must set ourselves to accomplish so that we may awaken others to a greater way of living and being.

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Yes.. God speaks to the messengers.thats true... Quran was revealed By God to Prophet Muhammad ... There are examples.. signs and proof eevry where.. what make you not believe in Him?..

What I was implying was that the Bhagats did leave their teachings behind, they are compiled in the Shabad Guru.

What do you mean believe in 'him'? Believe in the Semetic Prophets?

Do humans not have a choice in what they get to believe?

The Bhagats if used as an example did not force their opinion or condemn humanity. By virtue of the beliefs of the semetic religions (religioustolerance.org), they condemn all people including everyone here to so-called 'hell' for being non-believers.

Do you ppl believe that the World will end?

Who are 'you ppl'? Is this a general question for all?

Scientific theory states that if the Universe began, it will eventually expand before collapsing. Whether or not this is True is irrelevant, all we can do with this current life is Live it.

But no, there is no statement declaring the end of the world, and based on the argument that Semetic scriptures (specifically the Bible being mis-translated) it does not appear that this is the statement made by Jesus himself.

Rather the description of the Universe is more in line with the following...

When asked do you not think it strange to be reincarnated into another life... Eleanour Rousevelt: I don't think it would be any more bizarre for me to show up in another lifetime, than it was for me to show up in this one.

A useful analogy is as thus:

If we can imagine for a moment the vastness of the Universe and consider the Ocean of Energy that pervades it. In this way we can consider that in the very beginning before the Universe came into being, there was only that Ocean of Energy. If we were to take this idea and realize that the Ocean of Energy is the Watery Oceans of the earth, then we can consider from where do the drops of Soul (water) come from? Just as the droplets of rain have their source as the ocean, each soul originates from that One Source.

From the One Source came all these billions and trillions of droplets of life, each unique. In the same way the rain drops on the leaf of a plant high upon a mountain, or on a blade of grass in a field. The drop (individual unique soul) must join up into a stream (family). Henceforth the stream begins to follow a path with each changing season, and eventually it will meet into a river, or perhaps it does not and it reaches a pond far away from the ocean. Those that reach the river (congregation/like minded spiritualists), then surely the final step is to reach the ocean.

What of those who reach the pond, or never meet a stream or a river? The beauty of the cycles upon this earth is that they precipitate (pass on), and come again, until eventually all the droplets that have left the One Source, will come back once again. But this time it is unique and with an individual experience gained through the adventure of life.

The key to this analogy is understanding that from the One Source, many have risen, and eventually come high road or low road, will merge as a unique droplet into the Ocean of Energy that pervades all.

As above regards.

This world will End for Sure.. ...Because it was created for a purpose to test human beings...But no one knows when....

yes 'you ppl ' meant for all.... Science is controlled by God.. If right now theres no theory proved that the world will end ....it does not mean it wont... Because God doesnt wait for Science.. Rather Science waits for God's will.....

Yes. i meant What makes you Not believe in the same religion of Moses Jesus & muhammad? and think that sikhism had to be created ?

A simpler version of tht question would b .. Moses , Jesus and Muhammad were calling ppl to ONE GOD.. and showed them the simplest and straight way?... why did Guru Nank hav to invent another way ?

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^^because they were not one with God themselves and did not have Gurmat Naam, which can only be obtained in the house of Guroo Nanak. Gurmat Naam is the only step which leads you to merge with Vaheguroo, other religions although they teach you to love Vaheguroo, because they dont have naam they can't merge with him, they can only go so far.

If someone follows their religion 100% then God will see their love and in their next life they will be granted Gurmat Naam from the Guroo.

and Guru Nanak Dev Ji did not invent Sikhi, but he revealed it to the world. Sikhi is basically the path to Naam itself, and the naam has always existed, so sikhi has aswell.

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That doesn't make sense, is that not also a personal view?

Did you even read the other posts?

I wasn't even talking to you directly. Mskcan, you need to stop assuming things about what other people are referring to in their posts. You did this to me the other day and notice how I didn't reply back to what you asked? Thank you in advance.

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Guest peacemaker
If someone follows their religion 100% then God will see their love and in their next life they will be granted Gurmat Naam from the Guroo.

So before Sikhism started, wasn't the concept of merging with Waheguru always there, and just so you know, to me, Waheguru and God are synonymous words. It didn't just start when Guru Nanak came to this earth in 1469, it should've always been there because God it is timeless.

Are you saying that nobody was ever able to merge with Waheguru before Sikhism started and those that were eventually able to merge with Waheguru, had to wait until Guru Nanak gave the message to do so?

I believe that God used all of the prophets to spread the devine word. I also believe that God has come to earth in various forms through the ages and utilized select indviduals to spread the Lord's message. Gurbani doesn't discourage other faiths, so why should we? (Not saying you did so.)

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