Ragi Darshan Singh Pushed And Booed By Surrey Sangat

[Inder Singh]

Prof Darshan singh should be charged for spreading blasphemy against holy scripture of sikhs in india and those new age fanatics should be also charged with battery assault... for pushing and hitting an old man(despite of his views).

No one should be charged for hitting and no one should be charged for blasphemny in the Indian State as THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT SIKHS BATTLING IT OUT

Sarpanch bhaji, if this push and shove was done by hindus you be picking up your ak47. please stop this generosity drama.

Gurki Ninda sune na kaan

Bhetat de ----

[SonyNeech]

SHRI GURU GOBIND SINGH JI ne sikh to singh banaye

akal takht koun hunda uhna di bani te hukum karan wala

plz veer ji people don't have mind to understand dasam granth ji

baani dian char tukan par ke sare giani ho gaye

bhul gaye ke sikh da matlab te sikhna hai..sikh should always learn from TRUE GURU.

oh RABA SAB NU AKAL DE

[ChakdePhatte]

Prof Darshan singh should be charged for spreading blasphemy against holy scripture of sikhs in india and those new age fanatics should be also charged with battery assault... for pushing and hitting an old man(despite of his views).

Which holy scripture are you talking about? Did Guru Gobind Singh give Gurgaddi to Guru Granth Sahib or so called Dasam Granth, which contains writings like Krishna Avataar, Rudra Avataar, Brahma Avataar, Chandi Charitra and so on..... then Charitro Pakhyan the biggest part of granth which is all garbage.

Don't go on what I write, read yourself on http://www.dasamgranth.org/dasamgranth/ which is site of Dasam Granth supporter Virsa Singh.

The supporters of so called Dasam Granth wants to merge Sikhs into Hindus and make them characterless as Iqbal Singh himself is.

Except Jaap Sahib, 10 Sawaiyye, Chaupai (Hamri Karo haath ..........Dusht dokh te leyo bachai) and few more shabads. Rest all is garbage.

Open your eyes Singh ji.

Chak de phate

Ajit is a respected newspaper and does not allow baseless news in its column.The news says that sikhs whose names are given placed some questions in froont of Darshan Bhatra but Darshan Bhatra refused to answer these questions.

The news of atatck on Darshan lal bhatra wass in spkesman also.

Next your above statements about Dasam granth is a total bundle of lies,misleading and far from truth.Dasam granth condemns these avtars in the worst possible language.You people including darshan lal Bhatra know nothing about Dasam granth and spreading misinformation about this important granth of sikhs.

Only agents of GOI call this scripture in this language.Not real sikhs.Read what this Granth says about Hindu avtars

ਦਸਮ ਬਾਣੀ ਵਿਚ ਅਵਤਾਰਵਾਦ ਦਾ ਖੰਡਨ

ਕਿਤੇ ਕਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਉਪਾਏ, ਉਸਾਰੇ ਗੜੇ ਫਿਰ ਮੇਟੇ ਬਨਾਏ॥

He hath Created millions of Krishnas like worms. He Created them, annihilated them, again destroyed them, still again Created them.

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ਕਿਤੇ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਸੇ ਕੀਟ ਕੋਟੈ ਬਨਾਏ ॥ ਕਿਤੇ ਰਾਮ ਸੇ ਮੇਟਿ ਡਾਰੇ ਉਪਾਏ ॥

Somewhere He hath created millions of servants like Krishna. Somewhere He hath effaced and then created (many) like Rama. (pg.98)

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ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਉਬਾਰ ਨ ਸਕਹੈ ਜਾਕਰ ਨਾਮ ਰਟੈ ਹੈ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਰੁਦ੍ਰ ਸੂਰਹ ਸਸਿ ਤੇ ਬਸਿ ਕਾਲ ਸਭੈ ਹੈ ॥੧ (ਸ. ਹਜਾਰੇ)

Ram and Rahim whose names you are uttering cant save you. Brahma, Vishnu Shiva, Sun and Moon, all are subject to the power of Death.1. .(pg.1349)

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ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ॥ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈਂ ਹਮ ਏਕਨ ਜਾਨਯੋ॥ ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋਊ ਆਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਨਯੋ ॥ (ਰਾਮਾਵਤਾਰ)

O God ! the day when I caught hold of your feet, I do not bring anyone else under my sight; none other is liked by me now; the Puranas and the Quran try to know Thee by the names of Ram and Rahim and talk about you through several stories, but I do not accept these

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ਜਾਕਰ ਰੂਪ ਰੰਗ ਨਹਿ ਜਨਿਯਤ ਸੋ ਕਿਮ ਸਯਾਮ ਕਹੈ ਹੈ॥ (ਸਬਦ ਹਜ਼ਾਰੇ ਪਾ.10)

He, whose form and colour are not, how can he be called Shyaam (black)? .(p1349)

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ਕਾਹੂ ਕਹਯੋ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨਾਂ ਕਹੁ ਕਾਹੂ ਮਨੈ ਅਵਤਾਰਨ ਮਾਨਯੋ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਬਿਸਾਰ ਸਭੈ ਕਰਤਾਰ ਹੀ ਕਉ ਕਰਤਾ ਜੀਅ ਜਾਨਯੋ॥...ਅੰਤ ਮਰੇ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ ਪ੍ਰਿਥੀ ਪਰ, ਜੇ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਅਵਤਾਰ ਕਹਾਏ॥(33 ਸਵੈਯੇ)

Someone calls Him Ram or Krishna and someone believes in His incarnations, but my mind has forsaken all useless actions and has accepted only One Creator.12. (p.1352)

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ਕਾਲ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ਭਇਓ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਗਹਿ ਦੰਡ ਕਮੰਡਲ ਭੂਮ ਭ੍ਰਮਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਕਾਲ ਹੀ ਪਾਇ ਸਦਾ ਸ਼ਿਵਜੂ ਸਭ ਦੇਸ ਬਿਦੇਸ ਭਇਆ ਹਮ ਜਾਨਯੋ ॥

Brahma came into being under the control of time and taking his staff and pot his hand, he wandered on the earth; Shiva was also under the control of time and wandered in various countries far and near;

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ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਔ ਬਿਸਨ ਜਪੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋਟਿਕ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਭਲੀ ਬਿਧਿ ਧਿਆਯੋ ॥ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਜਪਿਓ ਅਰੁ ਸੰਭੁ ਥਪਿਓ ਤਿਹ ਤੇ ਤੁਹਿ ਕੋ ਕਿਨਹੂੰ ਨ ਬਚਾਯੋ ॥……..ਤੋਹਿ ਬਚਾਇ ਸਕੈ ਕਹੁ ਕੈਸੇ ਕੈ ਆਪਨ ਘਾਵ ਬਚਾਇ ਨ ਐਹੈ ॥ਕੋਪ ਕਰਾਲ ਕੀ ਪਾਵਕ ਕੁੰਡ ਮੈ ਆਪ ਟੰਗਿਓ ਤਿਮ ਤੋਹਿ ਟੰਗੈਹੈ ॥

Thou hast meditated on millions of Krishnas, Vishnus, Ramas and Rahims. Thou hast recited the name of Brahma and established Shivalingam, even then none could save thee…….They cannot save themselves form the blow of death, how can they protect thee? They are all hanging in the blazing fire of anger, therefore they will cause thy hanging similarly. (pg111)

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ਮੈ ਨ ਗਨੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਮਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਕਿਸ਼ਨ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹ ਧਿਆਊਂ ॥ਕਾਨ ਸੁਨੇ ਪਹਿਚਾਨ ਨ ਤਿਨ ਸੋਂ ॥ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਮੋਰੀ ਪਗ ਇਨ ਸੋਂ ॥੪੩੪॥ (ਕ੍ਰਿ.ਵਤਾਰ)

I do not adore Ganesha in the beginning and also do not meditate on Krishna and Vishnu; I have only heard about them with my ears and I do not recognize them; my consciousness is absorbed at the feet of the Supreme Lord.434.

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ਖੋਜ ਰਹੇ ਸ਼ਿਵ ਸੇ ਜਿਹ ਅੰਤ ਅਨੰਤ ਕਹਿਓ ਥਕ ਅੰਤ ਨ ਪਾਯੋ ॥ ਤਾਹੀ ਕੀ ਬਾਤ ਸੁਨੋ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਮੁਖ ਤੇ ਸੁਕਦੇਵ ਇਹੈ ਠਹਰਾਯੋ ॥੨੪੦੩॥

He, whom Shiva etc. had been searching, but could not know His Mystery; O Shukdev ! relate to me the story of that Lord.2403.

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ਜੌ ਕਹੌ ਰਾਮ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਅਜੈ ਅਤਿ ਕਾਹੇ ਕੌ ਕੌਸ਼ਲ ਕੁੱਖ ਜਯੋ ਜੂ ॥ ਕਾਲ ਹੂੰ ਕਾਲ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹਿ ਕੌ ਕਿਹਿ ਕਾਰਣ ਕਾਲ ਤੇ ਦੀਨ ਭਯੋ ਜੂ ॥

If you consider Ram, the Lord as Unborn, then how did he take birth from the womb of Kaushalya? He, who is said to be the destroyer of death, then why did he become subjugated himself before death?

ਸੱਤ ਸਰੂਪ ਬਿਬੈਰ ਕਹਾਇ ਸੁ ਕਯੋਂ ਪਥ ਕੌ ਰਥ ਹਾਂਕ ਧਯੋ ਜੂ ॥ ਤਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਮਾਨਿ ਪ੍ਰਭੂ ਕਰਿ ਕੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਕੋਊ ਭੇਦੁ ਨ ਲੇਨ ਲਯੋ ਜੂ ॥੧੩॥

If he (Krishna) is called the Truth-incarnate, beyond enmity and opposition, then why did he become the charioteer of Arjuna? O mind! you only consider him the Lord God, whose Mysetry could not be known to anyone.13.

ਕਯੋਂ ਕਹੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਨਿਧ ਹੈ ਕਿਹ ਕਾਜ ਤੇ ਬੱਧਕ ਬਾਣ ਲਗਾਯੋ ॥ ਅਉਰ ਕੁਲੀਨ ਉਧਾਰਤ ਜੋ ਕਿਹ ਤੇ ਅਪਨੋ ਕੁਲ ਨਾਸੁ ਕਰਾਯੋ ॥

Krishna himself is considered the treasure of Grace, then why did the hunter shot his arrow at him? He has been described as redeeming the clans of others then he caused the destruction of his own clan;

ਆਦਿ ਅਜੋਨਿ ਕਹਾਇ ਕਹੋ ਕਿਮ ਦੇਵਕਿ ਕੇ ਜਠਰੰਤਰ ਆਯੋ ॥ ਤਾਤ ਨ ਮਾਤ ਕਹੈ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਤਿਹ ਕਯੋਂ ਬਸੁਦੇਵਹਿ ਬਾਪੁ ਕਹਾਯੋ ॥੧੪॥

If he (Krishna) is said to be unborn and without a beginning, then how did he come into the womb of Devaki? He, who is considered without any father or mother, then why did he cause Vasudev to be called his father? 14.

ਕਾਹੇ ਕੋ ਏਸ਼ ਮਹੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਭਾਖਤ ਕਾਹਿ ਦਿਜੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਏਸ ਬਖਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਹੈ ਨ ਰਘ੍ਵੇਸ਼ ਜਦ੍ਵੇਸ਼ ਰਮਾਪਤਿ ਤੈ ਜਿਨ ਕੌ ਬਿਸ੍ਵਨਾਥ ਪਛਾਨਯੋ ॥

Why do you consider Shiva or Brahma as the Lord? There is none amongst Ram, Krishna and Vishnu, who may be considered as the Lord of the Universe by you;

ਏਕ ਕੋ ਛਾਡਿ ਅਨੇਕ ਭਜੈ ਸੁਕਦੇਵ ਪਰਾਸਰ ਬਯਾਸ ਝੁਠਾਨਯੋ ॥ ਫੋਕਟ ਧਰਮ ਸਜੇ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਹੀ ਕੌ ਬਿਧ ਨੈਕ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਯੋ ॥੧੫॥

Relinquishing the One Lord, you remember many gods and goddesses; in this way

ਕੋਊ ਦਿਜੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਮਾਨਤ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਕੋਊ ਮਹੇਸ਼ ਕੋ ਏਸ਼ ਬਤੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਕੋਊ ਕਹੈ ਬਿਸ਼ਨੋ ਬਿਸ਼ਨਾਇਕ ਜਾਹਿ ਭਜੇ ਅਘ ਓਘ ਕਟੈ ਹੈ ॥

Someone calls Brahma as the Lord-God and someone tells the same thing about Shiva; someone considers Vishnu as the hero of the universe and says that only by remembering him, all the sins will be destroyed;

ਬਾਰ ਹਜ਼ਾਰ ਬਿਚਾਰ ਅਰੇ ਜੜ ਅੰਤ ਸਮੈ ਸਭ ਹੀ ਤਜਿ ਜੈ ਹੈ ॥ ਤਾਹੀ ਕੋ ਧਯਾਨ ਪ੍ਰਮਾਨਿ ਹੀਏ ਜੋਊ ਥੇ ਅਬ ਹੈ ਅਰੁ ਆਗੈ ਊ ਹ੍ਵੈ ਹੈ ॥੧੬॥

O fool ! think about it a thousand times, all of them will leave you at the time of death. Therefore, you should only meditate on Him, who was in the past, is there in the present and will also be there in the future.16.

ਕੋਟਕ ਇੰਦ੍ਰ ਕਰੇ ਜਿਹ ਕੋ ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਉਪਿੰਦ੍ਰ ਬਾਨਇ ਖਪਾਯੋ ॥ ਦਾਨਵ ਦੇਵ ਫਨਿੰਦ੍ਰ ਧਰਾਧਰ ਪੱਛ ਪਸੂ ਨਹਿ ਜਾਤਿ ਗਨਾਯੋ ॥

He, who created millions of Indras and Upendras and then destroyed them; He, who created innumerable gods, demons, Sheshnaga, tortoises, birds, animals etc.,

ਆਜ ਲਗੇ ਤਪੁ ਸਾਧਤ ਹੈ ਸ਼ਿਵ ਊ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਕਛੁ ਪਾਰ ਨ ਪਾਯੋ ॥ ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਨ ਭੇਦ ਲਖਯੋ ਜਿਹ ਸੋਊ ਗੁਰੂ ਗੁਰ ਮੋਹਿ ਬਤਾਯੋ ॥੧੭॥

And for knowing whose Mystery, Shiva and Brahma are performing austerities even till today, but could not know His end; He is such a Guru, whose Mystery could not be comprehended also by Vedas and Katebs and my Guru has told me the same thing.17.

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ਬੇਦ ਕਤੇਬ ਨ ਭੇਦ ਲਹਯੋ ਤਿਹਿ ਸਿੱਧ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਸਭੈ ਕਰਿ ਹਾਰੇ ॥ ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤ ਸ਼ਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਬਿਚਾਰ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ ॥

The Vedas and Ketebs could not comprehend His Mystery and the adepts have been defeated in practicing contemplation; Different kinds of thoughts have been mentioned about God in Vedas, Shastras, Puranas and smrities; (p1351)

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ਸੋ ਕਿਮ ਮਾਨਸ ਰੂਪ ਕਹਾਏ॥ ਸਿਧ ਸਮਾਧਿ ਸਾਧ ਕਰ ਹਾਰੇ ਕਯੋ੍‍ ਨ ਦੇਖਨ ਪਾਏ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥ (ਸ. ਹਜ਼ਾਰੇ)

How can He be said to come in human form? The Siddha (adept) in deep meditation became tired of the discipline on not seeing Him in any way…..Pause. (p.1348)

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ਸ਼ੇਸ਼ ਸੁਰੇਸ਼ ਗਣੇਸ਼ ਮਹੇਸੁਰ ਗਾਹਿ ਫਿਰੈ ਸ੍ਰੁਤਿ ਥਾਹ ਨ ਆਯੋ ॥

ਰੇ ਮਨ ਮੂੜ ਅਗੂੜ ਇਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਤੈ ਕਿਹ ਕਾਜਿ ਕਹੋ ਬਿਸਰਾਯੋ ॥ 4॥ 1350 33 ਸਵੈਯੇ

Sheshnaga, Indra, Gandesha, Shiva and also the Shrutis (Vedas) could not know Thy Mystery; O my foolish mind! why have you forgotten such a Lord. 4.

Singh ji,

I can also quote your name as use Inder Kumar Bajrangi, but I will not.

Coming to the point. About Ajit newspaper, read its clarification also

http://www.ajitjalandhar.com/20080522/rashtri.php

Also Spokesman http://www.***anti-sikh website not allowed***/fullpage.as...=22&pview=7

http://www.***anti-sikh website not allowed***/fullpage.as...=22&pview=5

What you have written above have the concept similar to Sri Guru Granth Sahib, that is what I am trying to tell you that the when Sikh Rehat Maryada at Akal Takht was made with a struggle of 14 years, it was made clear that only Jaap Sahib, 10 Sawaiyye, Chaupai (HAmri Karo Haath de.............Dusht dokh te leyo bachai) and few shabads should be inducted into Nitnem. Rest of all can be read personally but not in Gurudwara or else where.

When Guru Gobind Singh gave Gurugaddi to Sri Guru Granth sahib, who r u and people like u to prakash Dasam Granth parallel to SGGS. Even Bhai Gurdass ji's Vaars, Bhai Nand Lal ji's Ghazals are also sung, do you do there prakash also. Then why Dasam Granth?

Now coming to Akhauti Dasam Granth, as I said it is the game of some miscreants who mixed Guru Gobind Singh's Bani with garbage. Read Krihna Avataar (Gopi Bach Prasang), Devi Ustat and so more.........

Bachittar Natak

"Mur pitt purab kiyas payana, bhant bhant ke tirath nana........"

Guru Tegh Bahadur who himself condemned Tirath bathing, will he go to Tiraths to beg for a kid..... think Bajrangi...

Charitro pakhyan........

You like it I know, as it had more than 415 stories which shows sex and nothing else. If you have courage enough read & translate in front of your Mother & Sister and your sangat. Best of luck and share the experience with me.

Ragi Darshan Singh pushed and booed by Surrey Sangat

By Ajit Jalandhar, SSNews

Surrey, Canada: Ragi Darshan singh who was in the news since his condemnation of Dasam granth Banis was confronted by Surrey Sangat.

It is reported that during last night in Sikh dominated area of Surrey Ragi darshan singh was invited to perform Kirtan in Singh Sabha Gurudwara. People from sangat led by Balwinder Singh Johal, Balbir singh Bains, Jathedar Mohan Singh and Sukhpal Singh placed a few questions on the harmonium of darshan Singh and sought answers for those. But Darshan singh did not give any answer.

In the list of questions included terming of Dasam Granth as a book of lies, disobeying Hukamnamas of Takhat Sri Akal Takhat sahib and Takhat Patna sahib and not agree to five banis of Nitnem.

Also included in singhs questions was a copy of Akal Takhat Hukamnama that states that do not cooperate with ragi Drashan singh. Ragi Darshan singh did not answer any of these questions. Instead, he tried to go away in a van. Sangat made this attempt futile. During this Darshan singh was pushed and hit also. Sangat surrounded his van and slogans were raised.

Joginder Singh, Gurudwara president intervened and calmed the crowd. Then only Ragi Darshan Singh could escape in the van. This was stated by Balwinder Singh Johal in a fax message to Ajit Jalandhar.

Response: This is what he (GuruNidak) deserved!!!

SikhSangat is Supreme

D S Gill. Chair IHRO

Read this also Gill ji,

Ajit newspaper clarification

http://www.ajitjalandhar.com/20080522/rashtri.php

Also Spokesman http://www.***anti-sikh website not allowed***/fullpage.as...=22&pview=7

http://www.***anti-sikh website not allowed***/fullpage.as...=22&pview=5

Response: This is what he deserved!!!

[SunSingh]

you are twisting things. these banis are not doing ustat of avtaars, instead they are showing that avtaars have flaws, are not perfect, and only one lord alone should be worshipped.

You use alarmist arguments like: "The supporters of so called Dasam Granth wants to merge Sikhs into Hindus and make them characterless as Iqbal Singh himself is."

However, Sant Jarnail Singh ji fully believed in and supported Dasam Granth Sahib ji. In fact, Dasam Granth is parallel prakash at Taksaali gurdwaras in India. Did Sant ji work to merge sikhs into hindus??

Here's a brief synopsis of some of the Dasam Granth banis with the word avtaar in the title:

CHOUBEES AVATAR

This is a very important literary piece. In this the stories of twenty-three Avatars of lord Vishnu have been included. These are Machch, Kachch, Nar, Narain, Mohini, Varaha, Narsingha, Baman, Parasram, Brahma, Rudra, Jallandhar, Bisan, Sheshmai, Arihant, Dev, Manu Raja, Dhanantar, Sooraj, Chandra, Ram Krishan, Nar (Arjan), Budh and Nehkalanki. Of these, Krishnavatar is the longest followed by Ramavatar and then Nehkalanki avatar. While some of the facts included are as per the scriptures, the writer has also used his own imagination to further elaborate on the facts.

At the beginning, Guru Gobind Singh Ji has clearly stated his aim for writing this literary piece. In this God has been referred to as the source and fountain head from which all avatars have come forth. Whenever the earth gets weighed down by evil and sin, God sends down lord Vishnu as an avatar. But even the avatars fall prey to their inflated ego hence face the displeasure of God who then sends another avatar. Each of these avatars is an expert at martial arts and strategies. It is this aspect of their personalities that is of utmost significance to the Guru.

UP AVATAR

This composition follows Chaubees Avatar. It begins by narrating the incidents and experiences of Brahma. But in this too there is the Îfallâ because of an inflated ego and excessive pride. At Godâs behest Brahma wrote the Vedas, but fell a victim to vanity. For this he was sent down on earth and it took him ages to rise again in the estimation of God. Finally, when he was successful in pleasing God, he was told that he would have to go down to earth and take the form of seven avatars. These were Balmik, Kashyap, Shukra, Brahaspati, Vyas, Sastrodharak and Kalidasa.

There are no such references in any of the existing scriptures. This composition is the outcome of Guru Gobind Singh Jiâs imagination.

The references to Brahma are followed by two avatars of Rudra-Dattatreya and Parasnath. Rudra too fell prey to conceit and suffered for it like Brahma. Similarly he had to take on the form of two avatars to redeem his mistake.

On reading these episodes on finds that the various avatars can be categorized under three heads. Shastradhari or those who took up arms and fought for right, Shaastradhari or those who on the strength of their knowledge fought for right and Kalyankari-these who transformed the world through their good deeds. Thus, whichever form they took, the fight was against the evil forces. The most important point that emerges on reading these compositions is that Guru Ji has not given undue and excessive importance to any avatar. He clearly states and believes that though an avatar has a divine spark in him, he is not God. Actually Guru Ji wanted to dispel the false belief that there can be different Gods. He wanted the people to understand that there is only One God.

KHALSA MAHIMA

This has four verses. It delineates the glory that is associated with the Khalsa. Guru Ji explains the role of the Khalsa to the priests who had come to perform a yagna. He says that it is only through the Khalsa that all achievements have been possible for him.

CHARITROPAKHIYAN

This composition highlights the various faces of woman. While the positive roles played by woman as a wife, as a mother, as a soldier are outlined, the negative aspect of some women who stoop to lowly activities has also been brought out.

It begins by elucidating the extreme bravery and courage of Devi Bhagwati and highlights her various deeds of glory. This is followed by the various positive ways in which women contribute to the welfare of their families in particular and society in general. The examples are drawn from the Mahabharata, Puranas, Brihat Katha, Katha Sahitya Saagar, Alif Laila, Ayaarey Dayish and other comtemporary literature. On reading about the various characters included in this composition one also gets an insight into the culture, tradition and values of the society and region of which they are a part.

Thus, through the given examples, Guru Ji has formulated a very strong value system for the reader, laying down rules to be upheld and followed by both men and women so that a society free from all mortal sins may be formed.

from gobindsadan.org

[Gurmat Sangeet]

CDF,

I hope you realise by demeaing Dasam Guru Granth Sahib you are going against the panth and are elegible for excommunication.

If you are a real man go to Akal Takh put foreward your blasphemous views and face the music, instead of being an internet warrior and hiding behind a computer.

[ChakdePhatte]

you are twisting things. these banis are not doing ustat of avtaars, instead they are showing that avtaars have flaws, are not perfect, and only one lord alone should be worshipped.

You use alarmist arguments like: "The supporters of so called Dasam Granth wants to merge Sikhs into Hindus and make them characterless as Iqbal Singh himself is."

However, Sant Jarnail Singh ji fully believed in and supported Dasam Granth Sahib ji. In fact, Dasam Granth is parallel prakash at Taksaali gurdwaras in India. Did Sant ji work to merge sikhs into hindus??

Here's a brief synopsis of some of the Dasam Granth banis with the word avtaar in the title:

CHOUBEES AVATAR

This is a very important literary piece. In this the stories of twenty-three Avatars of lord Vishnu have been included. These are Machch, Kachch, Nar, Narain, Mohini, Varaha, Narsingha, Baman, Parasram, Brahma, Rudra, Jallandhar, Bisan, Sheshmai, Arihant, Dev, Manu Raja, Dhanantar, Sooraj, Chandra, Ram Krishan, Nar (Arjan), Budh and Nehkalanki. Of these, Krishnavatar is the longest followed by Ramavatar and then Nehkalanki avatar. While some of the facts included are as per the scriptures, the writer has also used his own imagination to further elaborate on the facts.

At the beginning, Guru Gobind Singh Ji has clearly stated his aim for writing this literary piece. In this God has been referred to as the source and fountain head from which all avatars have come forth. Whenever the earth gets weighed down by evil and sin, God sends down lord Vishnu as an avatar. But even the avatars fall prey to their inflated ego hence face the displeasure of God who then sends another avatar. Each of these avatars is an expert at martial arts and strategies. It is this aspect of their personalities that is of utmost significance to the Guru.

UP AVATAR

This composition follows Chaubees Avatar. It begins by narrating the incidents and experiences of Brahma. But in this too there is the Îfallâ because of an inflated ego and excessive pride. At Godâs behest Brahma wrote the Vedas, but fell a victim to vanity. For this he was sent down on earth and it took him ages to rise again in the estimation of God. Finally, when he was successful in pleasing God, he was told that he would have to go down to earth and take the form of seven avatars. These were Balmik, Kashyap, Shukra, Brahaspati, Vyas, Sastrodharak and Kalidasa.

There are no such references in any of the existing scriptures. This composition is the outcome of Guru Gobind Singh Jiâs imagination.

The references to Brahma are followed by two avatars of Rudra-Dattatreya and Parasnath. Rudra too fell prey to conceit and suffered for it like Brahma. Similarly he had to take on the form of two avatars to redeem his mistake.

On reading these episodes on finds that the various avatars can be categorized under three heads. Shastradhari or those who took up arms and fought for right, Shaastradhari or those who on the strength of their knowledge fought for right and Kalyankari-these who transformed the world through their good deeds. Thus, whichever form they took, the fight was against the evil forces. The most important point that emerges on reading these compositions is that Guru Ji has not given undue and excessive importance to any avatar. He clearly states and believes that though an avatar has a divine spark in him, he is not God. Actually Guru Ji wanted to dispel the false belief that there can be different Gods. He wanted the people to understand that there is only One God.

KHALSA MAHIMA

This has four verses. It delineates the glory that is associated with the Khalsa. Guru Ji explains the role of the Khalsa to the priests who had come to perform a yagna. He says that it is only through the Khalsa that all achievements have been possible for him.

CHARITROPAKHIYAN

This composition highlights the various faces of woman. While the positive roles played by woman as a wife, as a mother, as a soldier are outlined, the negative aspect of some women who stoop to lowly activities has also been brought out.

It begins by elucidating the extreme bravery and courage of Devi Bhagwati and highlights her various deeds of glory. This is followed by the various positive ways in which women contribute to the welfare of their families in particular and society in general. The examples are drawn from the Mahabharata, Puranas, Brihat Katha, Katha Sahitya Saagar, Alif Laila, Ayaarey Dayish and other comtemporary literature. On reading about the various characters included in this composition one also gets an insight into the culture, tradition and values of the society and region of which they are a part.

Thus, through the given examples, Guru Ji has formulated a very strong value system for the reader, laying down rules to be upheld and followed by both men and women so that a society free from all mortal sins may be formed.

from gobindsadan.org

Veerji

You have extracted "from gobindsadan.org " which is a anti-sikh organization. They worship idols of Baba Sri Chand, Jesus Christ, Mother Mary. Visit Gobind sadan's web site http://www.gobindsadan.net/gallery2/main.php and see what they do.

You have written " However, Sant Jarnail Singh ji fully believed in and supported Dasam Granth Sahib ji. In fact, Dasam Granth is parallel prakash at Taksaali gurdwaras in India. Did Sant ji work to merge sikhs into hindus?"

Taksaali Gurudwaras are place of Brahamanical rituals. Read Giani Gurbachan Singh Bhindranwale's book, " Gurbani Paath Darshan ", you will get to know what they want. Full of rituals. Sant Jarnail Singh was a warrior, what he did is matchless. But if he supported Dasam Granth doesn't mean his wordings are final and supreme. Taksaal made his Qurbani worthless by telling lies that he is Alive, for more than 20 years in front of SGGS.

If Sikhs can't learn from SGGS which is Shabad Guru, ordered by Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji as "Sabh Sikhan ko Hukam hai, Guru Maneyo Granth", what they will learn from so called Dasam Granth which even he didn't promoted.

Sikh can read Dasam Granth, and other scriptures but our only Guru is SGGS. Do you do prakash of Bhai Gurdass ji's vaars, Bhai Nand Lal's ghazals, which are sung in Gurudwaras. NO........ then why DG.

Taksalis read Upnashids, Purans, Vedas and every other Hindu scriptures, then do the parallel prakash of these also with SGGS.

[ChakdePhatte]

CDF,

I hope you realise by demeaing Dasam Guru Granth Sahib you are going against the panth and are elegible for excommunication.

If you are a real man go to Akal Takh put foreward your blasphemous views and face the music, instead of being an internet warrior and hiding behind a computer.

Gurmat Sangeet

Which means the sangeet which is according to Guru's mat, but I think you should be "Mata diyan Bheta", as you are not going according to what Guru said.

"Agya bhayi akaal ki, tabhai chlayo panth, sabh sikhan ko hukam hai Guru maneyo granth". Granth only and only Sri Guru Granth Sahib not so called Dasam Granth.

As far as Akal Takht, I am going according to Akal Takht sahib's maryada, which clearly mentions,

The Definition of Sikh

Ariticle 1

Any human being who faithfully believes in

(i) One Immortal Being,

(ii) Ten Gurus, from Guru Nanak Dev to Guru Gobind Singh,

(iii) The Guru Granth Sahib,

(iv) The utterances and teachings of the ten Gurus and

(v) the baptism bequeathed by the tenth Guru, and who does not owe allegiance to any other religion, is a Sikh.

where is Dasam Granth in it?

Its a diffenet issue that you might be a Taksali or follower of any other Baba, who never follows Akal Takht's Maryada.

Above all, Akal Takht is not Supreme, Akal Purakh is. Sri Guru Hargobind Sahib made Akal Takht symbol for political sovereignty of Sikhs, not for excommunicating sikhs. It went to wrong hands, which started abusing the Guru's edict. Jathedar is not Guru. Nowadays Jathedars are mere jokers who just Dance what Badal and Badal like politicians say.

Last, but not the least, I am not hiding behind computer, I sit in front as you do. Keyboard is in the front of computer not behind.

Gussa nahin karna, waiting for reply.

[SunSingh]

SRM actually states that sikhs must believe in teaches in utterances of all 10 gurus, this includes dasam bani.

As for Gobind Sadan, I did not see these pictures of idol worship, could you please post a direct link to them? Additionally, truth is truth, regardless of who says it. If an organisation that attempts to promote mutual understanding and tolerance between religions states truth, it remains as true as truth stated by anyone else.

My main problem with Darshan Singh is that he claims he wants vichaar, but he has avoided past opportunities for vichaar by stating that he will not do vichaar with those who believe in parallel prakash. Then why not just discuss dasam bani while not discussing parallel prakash??? the reason is that this flimsy excuse makes him look like he is not afraid to face debate (to ignorant/bias people), while simultaneously allowing him to avoid a face to face debate with those most likely to trump him on the issue.

[ChakdePhatte]

SRM actually states that sikhs must believe in teaches in utterances of all 10 gurus, this includes dasam bani.

As for Gobind Sadan, I did not see these pictures of idol worship, could you please post a direct link to them? Additionally, truth is truth, regardless of who says it. If an organisation that attempts to promote mutual understanding and tolerance between religions states truth, it remains as true as truth stated by anyone else.

My main problem with Darshan Singh is that he claims he wants vichaar, but he has avoided past opportunities for vichaar by stating that he will not do vichaar with those who believe in parallel prakash. Then why not just discuss dasam bani while not discussing parallel prakash??? the reason is that this flimsy excuse makes him look like he is not afraid to face debate (to ignorant/bias people), while simultaneously allowing him to avoid a face to face debate with those most likely to trump him on the issue.

Sun Singh

Its ok to have mutual understanding between religions, but intermingling them has problem. These deras like Gobind Sadan, Sacha Sauda, Radha Swami etc. are just shops to attract people to distract from their path. These deras just use Sri Guru Granth Sahib to attract people and when their shop is able to make millions of money, then their real face come out.

View Gobind Sadan's web site

http://www.gobindsadan.net/gallery2/v/events/mothermary/

http://www.gobindsadan.net/gallery2/v/events/christmas2006/

and many more, browse through all. Does Sikhism allows Idol worship?

About Baba Siri Chand who was Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji's elder son, Guru ji himself didn't gave Gurugaddi to Srir Chand. But this Virsa Singh promoted Siri Chand and Dasam Granth. Is it not against Sikhism?

And reg Prof. Darshan Singh, why he should talk to any organization? When Akal Takht is there, why not Jathedar Akal Takht summons him? Organizations who challenged him in Punjab at Damdama Sahib, what is their authority? Then anyone who wants to challenge him will make some socities and organizations now & then, calls him to debate with them. Why?

If Akal Takht has any problem with him, Jathedar Akal Takht should summon him. But he will not, as he is spreading only Akal Takhts edicts and maryada which is not accepted by Akhand Kirtani Jatha, Taksal, other Babas including Nanaksar, Gatka Jathas etc. That is why they challenge him not Akal Takht.

As of today 24 May 2008, read spokesman http://www.***anti-sikh website not allowed***/fullpage.as...=24&pview=7

he is ready to do katha of controversial parts of Dasam Granth.

Guru Rakha

[SunSingh]

It's one thing to do katha, quite another thing to do vichaar with learned invidivuals, which I eagerly await.

I agree all idol worhship is wrong of course, but merely havinga statue is not idol worship. also, pingalwara is a multifaith organisation run by a sikh as well. there's nothing wrong with it, i don't see any intermingling. in the end, gobind sadan's work on dasam bani is what i care about and what is relevant to this thread.

Baba Sri Chand was a Sikh, there is nothing against sikhi in promoting him.

Additionally, the Akaal Takht issued hukumnamas to prohibit debate on Dasam Bani, when nindaks wouldn't stop with slander they then requested sikh intellectuals to defend Dasam Bani. Clearly, Darshan Singh is violating the Akaal Takht's hukum.

I have some questions:

Does Darshan Singh accept Jaap Sahib, Tav Prasaad Svaiye, and Chaupai Sahib as Gurbani? What is his stance on them?

Why did he suddenly change his stance on Dasam Bani? I mean teh specific reason, what happened to convince him to change his mind on it?