Takht Hazoor Sahib Rejects Akal Takht Gurmatta

[SunSingh]

Veer Khalistan_Zindabaad, You might find it interesting to read what Sant baba Gurbachan SIngh jee says about the panthic Sikh rehit maryada, Since he seems to be above the panth for you guys, you should read what he said to giani kirpal Singh jee about following the panthic Sikh rehit maryada. If you cant be bothered to read it, ive written a translation in another discussion, you can search for it.

Please repost it here.

You have taken it out of context. Sant Jarnail singh ji also said to follow rahit of Akaal Takht. But note that he never called DDT's rahit wrong. He did prachaar of DDT rahit as true rahit, not SRM. I've addressed this point before, when masands took contorl of Akaal Takht, the true rahit of the Akaal Takht remained what the Guru's taught. Now that SGPC have control, and have forced through the SRM, which most of the panth did not agree to (if you think they did, provide proof, show me the final draft's signatures) they are controlling the rahit of the Akaal Takht. But the true rahit of the Akaal Takht remains that which the Guru's taugh, not something man-made.

Additionally, when DDT persons were appointed to high posts at the Akaal Takht, Sant Jarnail Singh ji strongly disagreed with their action fo changing the maryada their to something closer to that of DDT. He still believed that true rahit of the panth is not SRM, but also disagreed with forcing one's on idea of rahit onto others. This is the truth fo Baba Gurbachan Singh ji's quote, which you have repeatedly (hopefully unintentinally) taken out of context.

[Matheen]

He still believed that true rahit of the panth is not SRM, but also disagreed with forcing one's own idea of rahit onto others. This is the truth fo Baba Gurbachan Singh ji's quote, which you have repeatedly (hopefully unintentinally) taken out of context.

That's the point that everyone misses and is the key to ekta in the Panth - not trying to force your Maryada on others.

[ghorandhar]

Veer jee could you provide some referances of what you claim Sant Jarnail Singh jee said. Neither Sant Gurbachan Singh or Sant Jarnail Singh are above the panth. Also the decisions are not man made, do you not believe in the guru panth khalsa and the decisions made by the panj? Do you not accept the authority of the Akal Takhat. Whatever the Guru panth Khalsa says should be parvan. Veer jee the SGPC never forced any maryada through. The simply published the maryada which was passed by the guru panth Khalsa. The following is the discussion which took place:

quote name='Mehtab Singh' date='Feb 9 2008, 04:40 PM' post='324006']

Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Jee was indeed NOT there when this present maryada was drafted, as said by Sant Baba Hari Singh Ji Randhawae waale. The original title wasn't this, but the news article did refer to it pretty much.

Bhai Sahib I suggest you go to the SGPC daftar and look at their books which records what was happening daily during those times. If Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee was not present then why is name printed (Each person who entered meetings was recorded and the discussions are also in the log book). Also why did Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh jee not protest the publication of his name? Atleast he could have protested that he was not consulted. Word of mouth is not enough to convince people, one person is saying one and historical references are saying another. It's like the Taksal and Sant HAri Singh Randhava saying no bindia can be pronounced in Gurbani when Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh jees book shows that they should be pronounced. The same Hari Singh Randhawa (unless ive confused him with someone else) states 'I dont no where they have started putting these bindia in (this was in his khata i heard at the gurdwara, sorry I have no recording). So sorry, I do not listen to SAnt Hari Singhs opinions when facts are shown otherwise. Even if someone is not present in a meeting, I would why people make such a fuss, has that individual become the panth?

There is a single rehit maryada which was formed with consultation for all jhatas. The only purpose of amending the existing PAnthic Sikh rehit maryada would be if all jhatas were dissolved and we all conform to the Panthic Sikh rehit maryada.

SGPC is "panthic" maryada? since when? Akaal Takht Sahib Jathedars have not signed off on ANY maryada to state a single maryada as 'panthic'..

during the 1920's many prominent Sikh leaders walked out on the discussions because some people starting making so many changes that were not agreed with... therefore, it cannot be considered a panthic maryada... Akaal Takht Sahib has not 'endorsed' that maryada, meaning, it has not stated that maryada as panthic maryada.. even some of the other takhts go by different maryada then Akaal Takht Sahib..

i have a question...before 1920, how many times was there a 'meeting' like this arranged to discuss a 'panthic' maryada?

Bhai SAhib jee if you write a letter the Akal Takhat, they will clear your confusion by stating the rehit maryada is the panthic Sikh rehit maryada. Please look at the following books:

Darpan Sikh rehit maryada (Gurbaksh Singh Gulshan). The jathedar of Akal Takhat Sahib jee has written on page 11 slanajog karag. So he accepts this rehit maryada as being the panthic one, if not why has he written the foreword?

Sri Akal Takhat Sahib ati Jathedhar Sahiban (Singh Sahib Giani Kirpal Singh sabka jathedhar Akal Takhat Sahib jee) Please go to page 99 right at the bottom of the page it is clearly written: 'on the 2nd of April 1958 I was appointed head granthi of Sri Harmander Sahib, Sri Amritsar. I approached Sant Giani Gurbachan Singh jee to ask him that 'our Jhatas maryada is different to that of the maryada at Sri Harmander Sahib je, what is your advise for me to do? Sant jee replied, 'You should follow the maryada which has been placed at Sri Harmander Sahib, because this maryada is the maryada of the Panth, the other maryada is mere our jhatas maryada, You should do palana of the PAnthic Rehit maryada. Note that on page 100 Singh Sahib jee says that Sant jee always supported this notion which he had told the Singh Sahib. Sant baba Gurbachan Singh jee also used the words panthic Sikh Rehit maryada. Singh Sahib jee was then made head granthi on the 2nd of April 1958.

There was no maryada in 1920, it was only a karara, the Panthic rehit maryada was part of a process where dicussions would take place and then finally written down as a karara. It was only after the 1930s that the Rehit maryada was published not in the form of a karara for the first time

15th of March 1927 The JAtehdar sahib of Akal Takhat Sahib (Bhai Teja Singh jee) presented the list of Bidwan In that list includes the 4 Jathedhar Sahiban (Damdama sAhib was not a Takhat then). Look at 'Panja sahalia ithaas' Page 41-42. You can go to SPGC office sign in to read the book.

In 1927 Babu Teja Singh Basour was excommunicated, according to my research he was the only one thrown out of the committee. Also note that Giani Sundar Singh jee Bhindra was present in meetings until he passed away in 1930.

Until 1933 there were still discussions regarding the Panthic rehit maryda, on the 30th of December 1933 a panthic smallen at Sri Akal Takhat Sahib was called. Go to Page 111-114 Panja <admin-profanity filter activated> Ithas, when I looked at the records I counted 170 people at this meeting alone. This book by the way can be seen by all. After 2 days discussion continued however the Singh Sahiban decided that still more discussions should continue, Also note that Hazoor sahib jee was also represented in the meetings. For the next 3 years meetings took place. The karara was passed on the 1/8/1936. On the 12/10/1936 Akal takhat Jathedar Singh Sahib giani Mohan Singh jee along with other gursikhs (including the head granthi Sri harmander Sahib jee) under mata number 149 passed the Panthic Sikh Rehit maryada, these people signed the mata.

Until 1945 Changes were made by the Panthic rehit maryada by the panth which included the Akal Takhat Sahiban.

[Matheen]

Veer Ji, you're missing the whole point!!

:homer

[ghorandhar]

Veer Ji, you're missing the whole point!!

:homer

I was asked a question regarding the formation of the Sikh rehit maryada and Sant Gurbachan Singh jees views. If Ive missunderstood the question Veer jee asked me, I ask for muafee.

[aadsach]

The five takhats were not involved in the decision making so the sandesh fails.

singh sahib iqbal singh was right to excomunicate darshan because he spoke against dasam guru granth sahib ji

singh sahib joginder singh is just a puppet of sarkar and wasn't even chosen as jathedar per maryada he didnt have the sikhee inside3 of him to uphold that decision

then the great "bahadari" of keeping singh sahib iqbal singh out of the meeting

all this is being done to undermine the 300 salaa at Takht sri abchal nagar hazoor sahib, wher dasam guru granth sahib ji will be prakash next to sri guru granth sahib ji and a hukam will be taken from dasmesh pita as well as the sikhs guru sri guru granth sahib ji.

by the way singh sahib kulwant singh was not chosen by maharashter govt he was chosen by the sangat.

[Azaad]

Its funny how all these contraversies spliting the panth have cropped up in the year of the 300th Gurgaddi Divas of Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj...It seems that whenever the chance arises of the whole panth to get together and unite, something or someone messes it up! I remember in 1999, when the whole panth was excited about the 300 years of the creation of Khalsa, the event was overshadowed by the alleged fights between G S Tohra (SGPC) and Prakash Singh Badal (Akali Dal). This created rifts in Panjab owing to alleigncies and the event was separated into different parts.

Again this year, when the panth was uniting (Sikhs in Panjab and outside Panjab..possible unification between SGPC AND DSGPC) contraversies are again dividing us apart...Many people believe its the work of the Government agencies dividing us, others believe its Sikh leaders with vested interests..WHATEVER it is, lets try and keep the Panth together....UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL!!!

Bhul Chuk Maaf

[blly21]

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee FATEH!!!!

I think what everyone needs to uderstand is, when the mougals were sitting at Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib orders to the Panth were given from the jungles.

Why should we follow hukam of a so called "jathedar" (vedandi) who we all know is baddals puppet and dosent have a back bone.

We have to follow Gurmat, and anyone who leads the panth the wrong way and tries to split it by giving anti-gurmat "hukams" will be dealt with by Vaheguru himself.

It is time to unite as a Panth and what surprises me the most is that these kinds of issue allways arise at important junctions of Sikhi (300 yrs Gurgaddi Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaaj).

Just to re-iterate, when the enemy and destoyers of the Quam sit at Takhat Sri Akaal Takhat Sahib and give anti-panthic and anti-Gurmat "hukams" they do NOT have to be followed, they have to be CHALLENGED.

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa, Vaheguru Jee Kee FATEH!!!!

[SunSingh]

The five takhats were not involved in the decision making so the sandesh fails.

singh sahib iqbal singh was right to excomunicate darshan because he spoke against dasam guru granth sahib ji

singh sahib joginder singh is just a puppet of sarkar and wasn't even chosen as jathedar per maryada he didnt have the sikhee inside3 of him to uphold that decision

then the great "bahadari" of keeping singh sahib iqbal singh out of the meeting

all this is being done to undermine the 300 salaa at Takht sri abchal nagar hazoor sahib, wher dasam guru granth sahib ji will be prakash next to sri guru granth sahib ji and a hukam will be taken from dasmesh pita as well as the sikhs guru sri guru granth sahib ji.

by the way singh sahib kulwant singh was not chosen by maharashter govt he was chosen by the sangat.

You are 100% correct. An avastha wala Singh i know verified that the 300 salaa at Takht Sri Hazoor Sahib is being put on mostly by the sants. This is a real thorn in the minds of the politicians who try to control the panth. Very few politicians are involved in the 300 sal celebrations. All the games of nindya etc are done by govt. agents to weaken and divide the panth.

And Ghorander, I don't want to take this off topic, but I don't believe what you are saying. A signature on a draft only means that people are willing to work towards a final version, it does not mean they accept the draft. I would like to see the final draft and its signatures, so I'll take you're advice and go take a look at it if I get a chance and have the time to in the future. But I don't believe for a second that Guru roop khalsa panth passed the SRM as the Sikh rahit. Rahit is what the guru gave us. Can you imagine the Guru saying that the rahit with regard to ragmala is believe in it or not, it's up to you? no mere human being or group of humans have the right to change the rahit.

And for future reference, the Khalsa Panth, and the Punj Pyare are not the Guru. They are Guru ROOP. o/w with all the disagreements it would mean that our guru was disagreeing, would make no sense. Gurbani is the Guru.

[ghorandhar]

The five takhats were not involved in the decision making so the sandesh fails.

singh sahib iqbal singh was right to excomunicate darshan because he spoke against dasam guru granth sahib ji

singh sahib joginder singh is just a puppet of sarkar and wasn't even chosen as jathedar per maryada he didnt have the sikhee inside3 of him to uphold that decision

then the great "bahadari" of keeping singh sahib iqbal singh out of the meeting

all this is being done to undermine the 300 salaa at Takht sri abchal nagar hazoor sahib, wher dasam guru granth sahib ji will be prakash next to sri guru granth sahib ji and a hukam will be taken from dasmesh pita as well as the sikhs guru sri guru granth sahib ji.

by the way singh sahib kulwant singh was not chosen by maharashter govt he was chosen by the sangat.

You are 100% correct. An avastha wala Singh i know verified that the 300 salaa at Takht Sri Hazoor Sahib is being put on mostly by the sants. This is a real thorn in the minds of the politicians who try to control the panth. Very few politicians are involved in the 300 sal celebrations. All the games of nindya etc are done by govt. agents to weaken and divide the panth.

And Ghorander, I don't want to take this off topic, but I don't believe what you are saying. A signature on a draft only means that people are willing to work towards a final version, it does not mean they accept the draft. I would like to see the final draft and its signatures, so I'll take you're advice and go take a look at it if I get a chance and have the time to in the future. But I don't believe for a second that Guru roop khalsa panth passed the SRM as the Sikh rahit. Rahit is what the guru gave us. Can you imagine the Guru saying that the rahit with regard to ragmala is believe in it or not, it's up to you? no mere human being or group of humans have the right to change the rahit.

And for future reference, the Khalsa Panth, and the Punj Pyare are not the Guru. They are Guru ROOP. o/w with all the disagreements it would mean that our guru was disagreeing, would make no sense. Gurbani is the Guru.

Veer Sun Singh jee, It would be incorrect to call it a draft, its been passed by the panth and the mata number has been given.

Veer jee ive given my opinions and presented my beliefs in the decision made by the Akal takaht, end of the day we might have a different opinion, but we are still brothers and should respect each other. This year is the 300 years Gurgaddi divas of the Guru Granth Sahib jee, we have survived this long after such a struggle with guidance by Guru granth Sahib maharaj, Guru maharaj kirpa kari and we the panth continues.