End Of Baba Banda Singh

[jassa]

No Sikh source is as authentic as contemporary sources. Sikh sources were written later.

‘Banda wished to make Sikh abandon their blue dress, to refrain from drinking and eating flesh: and instead of exclaiming Wa! Guruji ki Futteh! Wa! Khalsaji ki Futteh! The salutations directed by Govind, he directed them to exclaim, Futteh D’herm! Futteh dersan! Which means, ‘Success to piety! Success to the sect!’ These innovations were very generally resisted: but the dreaded severity of Banda, made many conform to his orders. The class of Acalis, or immortals, who had been established by Guru Govind, continued to oppose the innovations with great obstinacy: and many of them suffered martyrdom, rather than change either their mode of salutation, diet or dress: and, at the death of Banda, their cause triumphed. All the institutions of Guru Govind were restored.’

‘Sketch Of The Sikhs’, by J.C. Malcolm, 1812, P. 83

[Matheen]

Sooraj Parkash Granth goes into a lot of detail - when was it written?

[jassa]

my only question is

how come a person who was given punj teer by guru gobind singh and was send to punjab to set up khalsa raj was defeated .... the ans which rattan singh bhangu gives ... during the chardikalla of banda bahadar mata ji told bhai nand lal to write a letter to banda bhadar to come to delhi ... but banda bahadar refused mata jis bachan ... after this downfall of banda bhadar started ... else there could be no chance a person who was given thapara by bajjan walle himself can loose to anyone in this world ...

one more point to be noted about attack on sirhand ... when guru sahib send banda bahadur to punjab they told him to wipe off all sirhand on ground ... after defeating he destroyed sirhand partialy ... which was in the mind of khalsa panth all the time ... and guru sahib bachans was fullfilled by jassa singh alluwalia later for which he started a special attack on empty sarhand when he cleared it and not even a single building was left ...

and when we have sikh sources whats the need of going for Persian sources ??? i would scan itehas of banda bhadar from different purtan granths sikh and non sikh and put them here !!!

[xHarinder_singh]

When it comes to Baba Banda Singh Bahadur Jee's life, I will give more importance to contemporary sources than the sikh sources written later. I am not trying to belittle the works of Kavi Santokh Singh Jee and Bhai Ratan Singh Bhangu jee, they have done great service to the panth by writing the historical granths, but many of the things they wrote were what they heard from the local sikh population of that time.

Lets take the example of 1984 India army attack on Sri Akal Takht Sahib. If today, just 24 years later, I decide to write a granth, I will get lots of different opinions from the local sikh population.

1. Some will completely slander Baba Jarnail Singh jee and say he was a congress agent.

2. Some will say that initially he was supported by Congress but later he changed.

3. Some will say that he was completely wrong in fighting against INdian Army and it was due to him that Sri Darbar Sahib was desicrated.

4. Some will say that Baba Jee escaped and is still alive and will return.

5. Some will say that Baba Jee had a problem with anti-raagmala kharrkus and decided to fight the battle against indian army in Haummee.

6. Some will say that Baba jee was one of the greatest sant-sipahis of the panth and he fought one of the greatest wars in the history of humankind.(that will be my opinion).

7. Some "scholars of naam" will say that Baba Jee dint have naam drirh and dint even know how to japp Naam, how can he be a great sikh saint ?

8. Some "warriors of panth" will say that Baba jee dint have a farrlaa and was not part of the laadli fauj and as a result dint have the power to fight the oppressors. He was just used by the Akaali leaders for their personal gains.

9. etc etc etc.

There will be so many different opinions about what happened in 1984.

In the same way, the works about the life of Baba Banda Singh jee's life were compiled much later,70-100 years after the shaheedi of Baba Jee, as a result lots of misinformation.

[jassa]

there would have been different views i agree to that ... but all scholars had a same view for baba banda bhadaur ... becuase thats what really happened ...

banda bahadar as warrior --- every one said in one same tone wonderfull

banda bahadar as shaheed --- same tone wonderfull

banda bahadar as sikh --- same tone wonderfull

banda bhadars life after the winning pahars to cpatured from gurdasnangals gaddi --- not that good full of downfalls and anti khalsa activities .... like forcing a new mareyada usage of fathe darshan instead of vahegurujikakhalsa vahegurujikifathe ... (there is a book published by punjabi university which contains all hukamnamas of sikhs ... it contains hukamname of banda bhadar in which he used fathe darshan ... )

same views from scholars ...

and what does these contemporary sources say about this period if you would share that would be good ....

[xHarinder_singh]

What is the source of information of all the scholars ? I think it is heresay. Ratan Singh Bhangu went to villages and talked to old people and that was the main source of his writings.

Is there any contemporary manuscript that mentions Baba Banda Singh Jee became a Guru ?

Only Satguru is Abhull(without mistake). A sikh(irrespective of how high his avashta is) can make mistakes and I have no problem if Baba Banda Singh jee made some mistakes. But saying that he started to call himself Guru, well... that is just the character assasination of Baba Banda Singh Jee.

[xHarinder_singh]

Afer the shaheedi of Sahibzade, there were surely quite a few sikhs in Punjab and nearby areas. Why dint they all join together and attack Sirhind ? Why did Guru Sahib go to Nanded, Maharashtara and chose Baba BAnda Singh jee to punish Sirhind ?

Jealousy is deeply embedded in human nature. Some of the sikhs in Punjab might have become jealous of Baba Banda Singh jee and his charrdikala and that could be one reason of the misinformation about Baba Banda Singh Jee.

Puratan singhs were much better than the prsent ones but they were not perfect. Only Satguru jee is perfect and it is highly possible that punjabi singhs developed dislike for Baba Banda Singh jee.

If today, some bihari hindu becomes amritdhari, comes to Punjab, kills all the corrupt and dusht police officers and ministers and establishes khalsa government, I am sure that many punjabi sikhs will feel jealous and might spread some rumours about him like "bhayaaa jaa jada samajhda apne aap nu, barraa hankaari hai, kise de gall nahin sunndaa" etc etc etc.

[Bijla Singh]

Banda wished to make Sikh abandon their blue dress, to refrain from drinking and eating flesh: and instead of exclaiming Wa! Guruji ki Futteh! Wa! Khalsaji ki Futteh! The salutations directed by Govind, he directed them to exclaim, Futteh D’herm! Futteh dersan! Which means, ‘Success to piety! Success to the sect!’ These innovations were very generally resisted: but the dreaded severity of Banda, made many conform to his orders. The class of Acalis, or immortals, who had been established by Guru Govind, continued to oppose the innovations with great obstinacy: and many of them suffered martyrdom, rather than change either their mode of salutation, diet or dress: and, at the death of Banda, their cause triumphed. All the institutions of Guru Govind were restored.’

‘Sketch Of The Sikhs’, by J.C. Malcolm, 1812, P. 83

So history written 90+ years later is more authentic? Why are you quoting non-Sikh historian if you only need Sikh historians? Malcolm is wrong. He has no evidence. English historians distorted Sikh history.

how come a person who was given punj teer by guru gobind singh and was send to punjab to set up khalsa raj was defeated ....

He was sent by Guru Sahib and he did his best but imperial forces were too strong for him. If you read his history you will know that when he hid in the mountains for a while, he came back and took over Sadhuara and other cities which means he lost, won and then lost. Some historians have attributed his victories to miraculous powers or special powers of arrows due to his sudden success in a short period of time but this is all false. He did establish Khalsa Raj and did kill the perpetrators but when imperial forces came in hundreds of thousands he ran out of supplies and men and eventually lost. When he was captured he was reading Gurbani. Why would the government go after him when he did not even remain a Sikh (if you are correct)? And what brought him back?

the ans which rattan singh bhangu gives ... during the chardikalla of banda bahadar mata ji told bhai nand lal to write a letter to banda bhadar to come to delhi ... but banda bahadar refused mata jis bachan ... after this downfall of banda bhadar started

This makes no sense. Bhai Nand Singh Ji went to Lahore after leaving Anandpur Sahib. He died in 1705. Perhaps you or Bhangu can explain to me how Bhai Sahib reached Delhi and met Mata Ji after death? What was the need to call Baba Ji to Delhi when he was busy in defeating Mughal forces? It seems foolish to call Baba Ji to Delhi and leaving his mission in between. Bhangu is wrong.

one more point to be noted about attack on sirhand ... when guru sahib send banda bahadur to punjab they told him to wipe off all sirhand on ground ... after defeating he destroyed sirhand partialy ... which was in the mind of khalsa panth all the time ... and guru sahib bachans was fullfilled by jassa singh alluwalia later for which he started a special attack on empty sarhand when he cleared it and not even a single building was left ...

This is neither here nor there. He kept the fort but doesn’t prove how he established himself a Guru.

and when we have sikh sources whats the need of going for Persian sources ???

Then clearly you don’t know the importance of history. Bhangu is not the end of history and Sikh sources written much later do not stand against eye witness accounts and contemporary sources. Ask historians why we need such sources and how important they are. There are some account written by companions of Baba Ji but I have not found a copy yet. When I do I will post their info also. People can read life of Baba Banda Singh written by Prof. Ganda Singh. He clears all the misconceptions.

[Mehtab Singh]

Bhai Nand Lal Goya (a.k.a Bhai Nand Singh Ji) passed away only after joti jot of Dasam Pita, right?

[xHarinder_singh]

Saying that Baba Banda Singh Jee became a Guru, is a huge paap.

Some time back, I met an amritdhari. We were discussing about the best gurmat literature available for the sikh youth. He referred to the books of a Sant and I told him that I consider the writings of Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Jee to be one of the best Gurmat literature available. On hearing this, that amritdhari spoke " so you are a sikh of Bhai Randhir Singh and u took amrit from him and u people are given a special naam". I was a bit shocked to hear this.

Now, if that amrithdhari writes a granth today, he will quote Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Jee as a Guru and 200 years from now, people might even start believing what he wrote.

Thats how misinformation is spread.Thats why the eye witness accounts and the contemporary sources(written by unbiased non-sikhs) are more reliable than some of the sikh literature we have.