Concentration While Meditating

[Sukhdeep Singhh]

Baba Nihal Singh Ji does NOT believe Naam Dhrir to be necessary, or the Taruna Dal Amrit Sanchars would incorporate it. They will hold Amrit Sanchars in Canada this year, so you can ask them yourself.

You claim not to be aa jatha follower yet you blindly follow Bhai Sahib Randhir Singh Ji's views even when they contradict Dasam Bani - i.e. Kesh as Kakkar or historical texts stating the importance of Raag Mala.

Do you know what the word "Dhrir" means? None of those Panktis support your views, they have nothing to do with the akj concept, even if you're going by the translations.

Regarding the Pankti by Bhagat Kabir Ji, from Ang 1123, a few lines down he states:

nagaree eaekai no dharavaajae dhhaavath baraj rehaaee ||

There is one body with 9 doors, keep the mind within them.

thrikuttee shhoottai dhasavaa dhar khoolhai thaa man kheevaa bhaaee ||3||

When the trikuti is left behind, and the Tenth Gate opens up, then the mind experiences true bliss, my brothers. ||3||

The brute is the mind, in preceeding panktis, Bhagat Ji talks about the futility of maya etc, and in your quoted line, they instruct us to turn inward rather than outward - i.e. to seek God within ourselves. The lines after that one cement that view by explaining that the 9 gates to the body must be closed before the Dasam Duar will open - i.e. all our attention must be inside - mouth closed, eyes shut, ignore all external sounds and smells etc.

Veera, I'm not looking for an argument, contrary to what you may think. Just that when AKJers go around to other Amritdharis and start telling then they have to retake Amrit in the akj style (happens a lot around here), it makes a mockery of Guru Ji's teachings. At the end of the day, Guru Sahib states "Jin Prem Kiyo, Thin Hee Prabh Paayo".

In regards to the rumors about Baba Nihal Singh Ji. Talking down on something and saying something is not necessary are two different things. Nobody is saying Naam Drir is necessary. Naam Dhrir is not a kakkar, but it very helpful in reaching dasam duaar in a quicker way. Similarily nobody can claim that doing 3 hours of Naam Simran for Amrit Vela is necessary. Yet im sure doing such a thing will help a person.

In regards to Bhai Randhir Singh Ji . It is no secret that I have great respect for Bhai Randhir SIngh Ji. His love and faith for Gurmat is unbelievable. In reagards to following his views. I agree with most his views because I believe they are right but doesnt mean I agree with all his views. By the way why are you mentioning Raag Mala now. I never once said anything about Raag Mala. Again I can only request that you stop playing this Desi- Jatha politics with me. Simply I am only into religion I dont care for these things. I belong to the same Jatha that Bhai Randhir Singh Ji,Baba Nand Singh Ji, Baba ISher SIngh Ji ( Rara Sahib), Sant Attar SIngh Ji ( Mastuana) Baba Harnam Singh Ji ( Rampur) etc belong to. This is the jatha that only rely on Gurmat. People change and groups change, but Gurmat can and will never change. Again this is the last time Im going to mention anything about Jathas. Im strictly into Sprituality these other things of being attached to people and groups have no interest for me.

The word Drir in Gurmat means to instill, implant, sow, stich,etc the wonderous Naam of Waaheguru into the Abhilakhi by the Panj Pyaarey and Panj Pyaarey because only Panj can give Gurmantar.

khu nwnk guir mMqRü idRVwieAw ]

kahu naanak gur ma(n)thra dhrirraaeiaa ||

Says Nanak, the GurMantra has been implanted within me;

kyvl nwmu ird mwih smwieAw ]4]42]111]

kaeval naam ridh maahi samaaeiaa ||4||42||111||

the Name alone is contained within my heart. ||4||42||111||

Could you provide your understanding of the word Dhir and back it up with Gurmat.

In regards to your translation to the Gurvak.

You stated "they instruct us to turn inward rather than outward - i.e. to seek God within ourselves"

The pangti is clear about reversing ( Ult) your Pavan ( swas- Breath) . Yet you make no mention of swas in your interpration. The word Pavan is also considered as Swas and resides in the human body.

In Anand Sahib Guru Ji states

hir jIau guPw AMdir riK kY vwjw pvxu vjwieAw ]

har jeeo gufaa a(n)dhar rakh kai vaajaa pavan vajaaeiaa ||

The Lord placed the soul to the cave of the body, and blew the breath of life into the musical instrument of the body.

vjwieAw vwjw paux nau duAwry prgtu kIey dsvw gupqu rKwieAw ]

vajaaeiaa vaajaa poun no dhuaarae paragatt keeeae dhasavaa gupath rakhaaeiaa ||

He blew the breath of life into the musical instrument of the body, and revealed the nine doors; but He kept the Tenth Door hidden.

gurduAwrY lwie BwvnI ieknw dsvw duAwru idKwieAw ]

guradhuaarai laae bhaavanee eikanaa dhasavaa dhuaar dhikhaaeiaa ||

Through the Gurdwara, the Guru's Gate, some are blessed with loving faith, and the Tenth Door is revealed to them.

In this Pauri it is clear that Pavan refers to swas which exists within the body through Gods grace.

This is very important to know when understanding pANGTI By Bhagat Kabir Ji.

In that Pangti Guru says turn the breath inwards. Could you tell me where this breath is located and how is it turned inward?

I agree about attention must be focused internally. But please tell me where the focus should be focused on. Also who can give instructions for the swas to turn inward surely we cant give ourselves instructions? Because that would be just plain manmat.

Also is there anything that handicapps the breath from turning inward? If yes what is it. If no please explain.

Thanks

[Akal Ustat]

So this whole argument is about putting hands on your head to dridh naam in you by panj pyareh? And if they dont that means naam dridh is not done? lol This whole dicussion seems to be whether the panj pyareh need to put their hands on your head for naam dridh to happen.

[Guest blah]

WJKK WJKF

I read someone's attachment and it's got me thinkin on the attachment it said "if evolution claims that humans' come from apes - then why are there apes still around?"

So what does Gurbani say; where have humans come from?

Thanks.

WJKK WJKF

[Sukhdeep Singhh]

So this whole argument is about putting hands on your head to dridh naam in you by panj pyareh? And if they dont that means naam dridh is not done? lol This whole dicussion seems to be whether the panj pyareh need to put their hands on your head for naam dridh to happen.

In the past during Charan Di Pahaul when the Abhilakhi drank Amrit from Guru Jis Charan Guru Ji would put his hand on the head and instill/implant Naam in the devotee. For Naam Drir to occur the devotee had so stay attached ato Guru Jis Charan. When Guru Sahib changed Charan Di Pahaul to Khanda Di Pahaul this method of Guru Sahib blessing the abillakhi with the power of his hands did not change. The abhilakhi still bowed down to Guru Jis charan and Panj Pyaarey instill Naam, and swas swas simran is understood. Anybody who recieves the Gurmantar is a truly blessed person there is no doubt about it. Naam Drir is the instilling of this Gurmantar in which Guru Ji gives instuctions on how to reverse the breath.

jwsu jpq ieh inrml soie ]

jaas japath eih niramal soe ||

Meditating on Him, one acquires this pure reputation.

jwsu jpq kmlu sIDw hoie ]7]

jaas japath kamal seedhhaa hoe ||7||

Meditating on Him, the heart-lotus is turned upright. ||7||

guir suB idRsit sB aUpir krI ]

gur subh dhrisatt sabh oopar karee ||

The Guru has bestowed His Glance of Grace upon all,

ijs kY ihrdY mMqRü dy hrI ]

jis kai hiradhai ma(n)thra dhae haree ||

within whose hearts the Lord has implanted His Mantra.

Does this mean that those who dont understand Swas Swas from Guru Jis instructions that their Naam Simran it has no effect? Of course not anybody who does Naam Simran will get GUru Jis blessing. Swas Swas just has a stronger effect. Learning from Guru Jis instructions is a great aid in learing Swas Swas simran immediately. Otherwise It takes lots and lots of Naam Simran to learn this method form Guru Ji. Does this mean that those who have not recieved Naam Drir during AMrit Sanchar they unvalid Amrit? Abolutely no, it would be blasphemous to think such a thing.

Naam Drir along with Guru Jis instructions is the greatest gift in doing Swas Swas Naam Simran it makes the technique more easier and undestable. For example, at the local Gurdwara I attend there are some older Singhs who have not recieved Naam Drir. They do Naam Simran during Amrit Vela ( 1-4) everyday with the Sangat. They are truly blessed to do so much Naam Simran. When they are doing Naam Simran one can notice at times they are doing it with their swas, but this is not all the time. Its obvious Guru Ji has blessed these older Singhs with some understanding of Swas Swas Simran technique due to their lifetime Bhagti. Gurmukhs like Baba Attar Singh Ji ( Mastuana) Baba Isher Singh Ji ( Rara Sahib) Baba Nand Singh Ji, Baba Harnam Singh Ji ( Rampur) , and Baba Thakur SIngh Ji did Swas Swas Naam Simran without learning the technique during AMrit Sanchar. But they would do Naam Abhyiaas all day Guru Ji eventually blessed them with the technique. For householder its extrememly diffiuclt to do as much Naam SImran as those Gurmukhs to learn the technique of Swas Swas, thus it is advisable to learn directly from Panj Pyaarey who are the emobidment of Guru Sahib. DO you think it is more helpful to learn instructions from a Sant or Guru Ji? I think it is wrong to question the power and ability of Panj Pyaarey. People who do such things are taking a daring risk, I only hope such people think before they try to put doubts about Panj Pyaarey in peoples mind.

I think the people who talk down on Naam Drir do not have bad intentions I just think they are misguided. They think by talking down on Naam Drir they are just talking down on AKJ. But this is not the truth. They are talking down on Panj Pyaarey who is the emodiment of Guru Ji.

[SunSingh]

I clarified what i meant about naam dhrir vs jugti, you ignored that and chose to use a strawman technique to pretend I had made a different argument, then you defeated that false argument that you had made and pretended to defeat my argument. I have seen you use this tactic numerous times. Sukhdeep Singh ji, A Gursikh should always be honest. Their is no excuse to turn away from these principles, even when you are doing vichaar about a belief that you hold dearly.

In response to your question, I read that Gurbani Pankiti you mentioned for the first time years ago. Upon reading it, I simply reversed my swas and started breathing in the manner indicated in the pankiti. There was no effort involved. I just tried it, thought it happening, and it happened. The swas can be lead by the surti (focal point of attention). This occured before I had taken Khande batte da Amrit.

As for the sants mentioned, how did they learn how to meditate? Well, they were probably taught by other mahapurkhs. This is common in the sampradas.

And wrt Baba Nihaal Singh ji, I didn't speak to him personally. I saw a video in which he stated that once you receive Amrit, Naam is already dhrir. Any special technique that others use is not required. It was a video of Amrit sanchaar, showing the entire process. They did NOT use the naam dhir technique used by AKJ and namdharis.

[Guest sant baba 108]

This topic is interesting.

Gurmantar= mantar form of Naam

Gurbaani= teachings, knowledge and Naam

Gurbaani has Naam in it as well, banis like Jap Ji Sahib, Jaap Sahib, Sukhmani Sahib, Manglacharan(also called mool mantar) are FULL of Naam

Chaubees Avataar, Charitropakhyan have less Naam and more of teachings and knowledge.

So basically what we are talking about is GURMANTAR DRIRH

Gurmantar drirh= implanting gurmantar into the breaths and this can ONLY happen via the Satguru Jyot working through 5 singhs.

A mahapurash telling the jugti wont implant the gurmantar in the breaths as the Satguru jyot cannot work through 1 person.

and yes, this jugti is not as simple as some people make it to be, some people say that say wahe on ihnale and guru on exhale. Its not that simple. Its about GERRAA(lakh lakh GERRAA akhiyae, eek naam jagdess, sri jap ji sahib), a complete round of tongue from the top of the mouth to the bottom and then again to the top.

"V" is pronounced at the top of the mouth,

"R" is pronounced at the top when the tongue is coming back from bottom to top

"H" is pronounced when the tongue is touching the floor of the mouth and

"G" is pronounced when tongue is at the floor and is going to the top to complete the GERRA

This is also the explanation of the Bhai Gurdaas Jee's stanza talking about the origin of Gurmantar.

Satjug(at first) "v" letter was formed, then "r" was formed, both these sounds are produced at the top of the mouth.

Then "h" was formed, this is pronounced when the tongue is touching floor on the way down.

Then "g" was formed, this is pronounced when the tongue is touching floor on the way up.

[Sukhdeep Singhh]

I clarified what i meant about naam dhrir vs jugti, you ignored that and chose to use a strawman technique to pretend I had made a different argument, then you defeated that false argument that you had made and pretended to defeat my argument. I have seen you use this tactic numerous times. Sukhdeep Singh ji, A Gursikh should always be honest. Their is no excuse to turn away from these principles, even when you are doing vichaar about a belief that you hold dearly.

In response to your question, I read that Gurbani Pankiti you mentioned for the first time years ago. Upon reading it, I simply reversed my swas and started breathing in the manner indicated in the pankiti. There was no effort involved. I just tried it, thought it happening, and it happened. The swas can be lead by the surti (focal point of attention). This occured before I had taken Khande batte da Amrit.

As for the sants mentioned, how did they learn how to meditate? Well, they were probably taught by other mahapurkhs. This is common in the sampradas.

And wrt Baba Nihaal Singh ji, I didn't speak to him personally. I saw a video in which he stated that once you receive Amrit, Naam is already dhrir. Any special technique that others use is not required. It was a video of Amrit sanchaar, showing the entire process. They did NOT use the naam dhir technique used by AKJ and namdharis.

I dont understand what you keep saying when you say strawhat. Im not doing any kind of argument tactics. Pose any questions and I will answer it honestly to the best possibility.

In regads to the Pangti the main focal point is not the surti. The main focus/search point is the navel. This is written in Gurbani. In the following Pangti Mool ( root-origins) and Tat ( essence/truth- God) mean the same thing.

iehu mnu inhclu ihrdY vsIAly gurmuiK mUlu pCwix rhY ]

eihu man nihachal hiradhai vaseealae guramukh mool pashhaan rehai ||

When the mind becomes steady and stable, it abides in the heart, and then the Gurmukh realizes the root, the source of all.

nwiB pvnu Gir Awsix bYsY gurmuiK Kojq qqu lhY ]

naabh pavan ghar aasan baisai guramukh khojath thath lehai ||

The breath is seated in the home of the navel; the Gurmukh searches, and finds the essence of reality.

When you focus on this point eventually the Surti/Taksal becomes more focused and takes shape.

As for those Sants who learned the method they learned it directly from Guru Ji because of their immense Bhagti.

[Papi]

You guys can stop arguing about this now, way to ruin the topic :rolleyes:

To OP: There is only and only one "technique", LISTEN with LOVE. A lovely article posted by pjs in Gurbani Section will provide some more details on this:

[Guest khalsa 2012]

the sound of contunious jaap of vaheguroo gurmantar!

breathe in = VAAAAHEEE

breathe out = gurrrrro

..if ur unsure ...the panj will help you

erm, no its not breath in breath out...you shouldn't be telling others the saas giraas method, only panj pyare can.

:rolleyes: She just did! Is this what you lot keep 'hidden' :rolleyes: Like Seriously? :rolleyes:

Stop bringing down NAAM to specific technique !!! <_<

shes right... thats how dasam duar is opened..

[SunSingh]