Bitter Experiences At Hazur Sahib

[BhForce]

I had recently gone to hazur sahib, nanded. I was very disturbed because of the following rituals that take place there. THIS IS JUST MY POINT OF VIEW AND SO SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN BY ANY OTHER MEANS.

In general, people already know the maryada at Hazur Sahib differs in some respect from SGPC maryada. I don't think we should act shocked. If you disagree with some aspect, I think you should write a reasoned letter to the Jathedar there.

1. AFTER THE REHRAS SAHIB IN THE EVENING 3 HINDUS SIT RIGHT INSIDE THE GURUDWARA COMPLEX AND PLAY SHEHNAI DURING THE CHAUPAI SAHIB. THEY ARE SOMEWHAT IN THE RSS CLOTHING. I WENT UP TO THEM TO STOP THIS MANMAT I WAS SHOCKED TO HEAR THAT THEY WERE APPOINTED BY THE MANAGEMENT . PEOPLE WERE TAKING MATHAS TO THEM AND GIVING THEM MONEY. IS THIS SUPPOSED TO BE DONE?

From somebody's post, it seems these are Marathi musicians. Although it would probably be better to have Sikh musicians, this doesn't really seem like a huge deal (in the bigger picture). Granted, when someone is saying a shabad regarding Amrit Vela, and doesn't follow it himself, then you get into "Avar Updeshe Aap Na Karai" (Preaching to others, not practicing yourself). But they were just playing chenne (a percussion instrument).

2. I KNOW DASAM GRANTH IS A CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE BUT I WAS LISING TO ITS VYAKHYA IN THE EVENING. THE PREACHER REPEATEDLY SAID " GURU SAAB ONLY LOVED THOSE PEOPLE WHO GAVE HIM WEAPONS AND HORSES" I HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT THIS SO PLS DON'T GET AFTER ME.I WOULD LIKE SOME GIANIJI TO PU LIGHT ON THIS.

The Dasam Granth doesn't have anything to do with the point above. The Granthi just happened to mention this during the Katha.

The hukum to give horses and weapons was given by Guru Harbobind Ji, far before the Dasam Granth.

AFTER THE BHOG OF THE DASSAM GRANTH , A GOAT IS SLAUGHTERED RIGHT NEXT TO THE NISHAN SAAB AND TILAK IS PUT ON THE SIRI SAAB OF GURUJI. IS THIS RIGHT?

Maybe, maybe not, but the value of humans in India is less than that of animals, so why worry? (At least animals can be made into meat, which has a price -- in the jaded view of many.)

THE ARDAAS PERFORMED THERE IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM WHAT IS DONE IN PUNJAB , DELHI.

Would you like to go to the trouble of posting the differences for the benefit of readers who haven't been to Hazur Sahib?

[Khaalis]

Hazur Sahib Rehraas and Ardaas is Sampuran (complete) and the traditions are Puraatan (original/traditional).

It is the Punjabi and Delhi Gurdwaras that have been influenced by the British educated and nfluenced reformist Sikhs of the early 20th C - who formed the 2nd Singh Sabha commitee and SGPC.

Takhts in Patna and Nanded were outside of these reformist's clutches, hence still have traditional practices.

Try and understand real traditions with an open mind, and not judge them based on own limited experience/understanding.

[sahib_bindra]

first of all I wasn't upto any mischief .

I don't wanto discuss this more . admin pls delete the topic.

I would just like to say that if things are so right there . why don't we follow that everywhere.

[apnepart2]

Hazur Sahib Rehraas and Ardaas is Sampuran (complete) and the traditions are Puraatan (original/traditional).

It is the Punjabi and Delhi Gurdwaras that have been influenced by the British educated and nfluenced reformist Sikhs of the early 20th C - who formed the 2nd Singh Sabha commitee and SGPC.

Takhts in Patna and Nanded were outside of these reformist's clutches, hence still have traditional practices.

Try and understand real traditions with an open mind, and not judge them based on own limited experience/understanding.

lol! hazur sahib was well without a sikh for over a number of years after the death of ranjit singh. the sikhs abandoned the place after facing acute food shortage and facing constant opposition of local turks. and when the returned they regained control after great difficulty. so there is a vaccum of historical facts. as for reformists, why don't you guys drop a bomb on the place and return it to its 'original state' after gurujis departure; uncultivated, unhabitated jungle type barren land. that would be really puratan as present practise was not practised by guruji. Present Akali Dal is corrupt, but the original was purely religious awakening.

"1. AFTER THE REHRAS SAHIB IN THE EVENING 3 HINDUS SIT RIGHT INSIDE THE GURUDWARA COMPLEX AND PLAY SHEHNAI DURING THE CHAUPAI SAHIB. THEY ARE SOMEWHAT IN THE RSS CLOTHING. I WENT UP TO THEM TO STOP THIS MANMAT I WAS SHOCKED TO HEAR THAT THEY WERE APPOINTED BY THE MANAGEMENT . PEOPLE WERE TAKING MATHAS TO THEM AND GIVING THEM MONEY. IS THIS SUPPOSED TO BE DONE? "

the practise has been going for generations. It is said their ancestors did the same in front of guruji. theres nothing wrong in this.

and i don't think if RSS had any saying in matters of Hazur Sahib they would allow jatka of bakra there.

http://www.sanghpari...man-is-it-legal

[Bhagauti]

Sahib_Bindra, I have been to Hazur Sahib several times and have just recently come back from there last month. Firstly the Hindus that you refer to that "SIT RIGHT INSIDE THE GURUDWARA COMPLEX AND PLAY SHEHNAI " sit no where near the gurdwara and sit more towards the entrance of Sachkhand Hazur Sahib (the outer parkarma) - therfore not an addition to the Chaupai Sahib, but more there for their own sewa, you may also have noted that they do no just play their instruments during chaupai sahib, but continue to do so even after the rehras, arti and full samapti of the darbar has been done. They also play in the morning too, and I have to say I stayed there 6 days this time and not once did I see anyone mutha take to them, as for giving them money I don't see what could possibly be wrong with that - do we not give keertani's money on stage?

With reference to the RSS clothing, one observation I made was that wearing of topis is very common in that region, and these were not just worn by these individuals but also by many hindus that come to mutha take at Sachkhand Hazur Sahib.

As for the ardas, I think I can safely say that there is no one standard ardas followed by all Gurdware in Punjab, the ardas read will always vary depending on where you are, Nanaksar, Taksal, Budhal Dal, Hazur Sahib, Anandpur Sahib etc etc..

[Inder Singh]

hazur sahib was well without a sikh for over a number of years after the death of ranjit singh. the sikhs abandoned the place after facing acute food shortage and facing constant opposition of local turks. and when the returned they regained control after great difficulty. so there is a vaccum of historical facts. as for reformists, why don't you guys drop a bomb on the place and return it to its 'original state' after gurujis departure; uncultivated, unhabitated jungle type barren land. that would be really puratan as present practise was not practised by guruji. Present Akali Dal is corrupt, but the original was purely religious awakening.

Hazur sahib was never without a sikh. Read contemporary sikh literature especially parchian sewa das written in 1708. The author was at Hazur sahib.

Sikhs who had gone with Guru sahib stayed there. Gurudwara was built right after Guru sahib's leaving this world.

[Inder Singh]

hazur sahib was well without a sikh for over a number of years after the death of ranjit singh. the sikhs abandoned the place after facing acute food shortage and facing constant opposition of local turks. and when the returned they regained control after great difficulty. so there is a vaccum of historical facts. as for reformists, why don't you guys drop a bomb on the place and return it to its 'original state' after gurujis departure; uncultivated, unhabitated jungle type barren land. that would be really puratan as present practise was not practised by guruji. Present Akali Dal is corrupt, but the original was purely religious awakening.

I think Hazur sahib was never without a sikh. Read contemporary sikh literature especially parchian sewa das written in 1708. The author was at Hazur sahib.

Sikhs who had gone with Guru sahib stayed there. Gurudwara was built right after Guru sahib's leaving this world.

[apnepart2]

hazur sahib was well without a sikh for over a number of years after the death of ranjit singh. the sikhs abandoned the place after facing acute food shortage and facing constant opposition of local turks. and when the returned they regained control after great difficulty. so there is a vaccum of historical facts. as for reformists, why don't you guys drop a bomb on the place and return it to its 'original state' after gurujis departure; uncultivated, unhabitated jungle type barren land. that would be really puratan as present practise was not practised by guruji. Present Akali Dal is corrupt, but the original was purely religious awakening.

Hazur sahib was never without a sikh. Read contemporary sikh literature especially parchian sewa das written in 1708. The author was at Hazur sahib.

Sikhs who had gone with Guru sahib stayed there. Gurudwara was built right after Guru sahib's leaving this world.

i had 'sachkhand patra' with me which mentioned this fact from the history of hazur sahib. i would have taken a photo and pasted here from it but unfortunately i dont have it with me right now. sikhs priests/caretakers locked the doors of the gurdwara and returned back to punjab before the gates were forced open by locals and later when sikhs returned they wont let them back in. fights between sikhs and locals were frequent and violent.

[Inder Singh]

hazur sahib was well without a sikh for over a number of years after the death of ranjit singh. the sikhs abandoned the place after facing acute food shortage and facing constant opposition of local turks. and when the returned they regained control after great difficulty. so there is a vaccum of historical facts. as for reformists, why don't you guys drop a bomb on the place and return it to its 'original state' after gurujis departure; uncultivated, unhabitated jungle type barren land. that would be really puratan as present practise was not practised by guruji. Present Akali Dal is corrupt, but the original was purely religious awakening.

Hazur sahib was never without a sikh. Read contemporary sikh literature especially parchian sewa das written in 1708. The author was at Hazur sahib.

Sikhs who had gone with Guru sahib stayed there. Gurudwara was built right after Guru sahib's leaving this world.

i had 'sachkhand patra' with me which mentioned this fact from the history of hazur sahib. i would have taken a photo and pasted here from it but unfortunately i dont have it with me right now. sikhs priests/caretakers locked the doors of the gurdwara and returned back to punjab before the gates were forced open by locals and later when sikhs returned they wont let them back in. fights between sikhs and locals were frequent and violent.

When you say locals most probably it is a reference to deccani sikhs. They were the offosprings of local mother and a punjabi father to begin with.

There is a good article of nanak singh Nishter on the net on Deccani sikhs.

[apnepart2]

i really don't remember if it was deccani sikhs or turks or hindus. but what i do remember reading was that the gurdwara was the only establishment in the middle of a vast barren land. there was acute shortage of food and the offerings were nothing as there were no residences near it. and during summers the place would get like an oven. and facing shortage of food and life threatning situation the sikhs locked the doors and came back to punjab. this i read in the sachkhand patar which explained history of hazur sahib according to records of gurdwara which i think were written by the first jathedar , it was published around gurta gaddi diwas i think.