A Westerner's View Of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib Ji

[Mehtab Singh]

Prabhjot Singh December 2 at 11:30pm

Note: The following is an excerpt from a book, Sketch of the Sikhs, a singular nation in the province of Penjab,written by Sir John Malcolm* in 1812. John Malcolm's work is one of the rarest firsthand information recorded by a western historian on the lifestyle, belief systems and traditions of the Sikhs in Punjab during the 18th century .

Guru-mata

When Gurmata or great national council, is called, (as it always is, or ought to be, when any imminent danger threatens the country, or any large expedition is to be undertaken) all the Sikh chiefs assemble at Amritsar. The assembly, which is called the Guru-mata, is convened by the Acalis; and when the chiefs meet upon this solemn occasion, it is concluded that all private animosities cease, and that every main sacrifices his personal feelings at the shrine of the general good; and, actuated by principles of pure patriotism, thinks of nothing but the interests of the religion, and commonwealth, to which he belongs.

When the chiefs and principal leaders are seated, the Adi-Granth and Dasama Padshah ka Granth are placed before them. They all bend their heads before these scriptures, and exclaim, Wa! Guruji ka Khalsa! Wa! Guruji ki Fateh! A great quantity of cakes, made of wheat, butter, and sugar, are then placed before the volumes of their sacred writings, and covered with a cloth. These holy cakes, which are in commemoration of the injunction of Nanac, to eat and to give to others to eat, next receive the salutation of the assembly, who then rise, and the Acalis pray aloud, while the musicians play. The Acalis, then the prayers are finished, desire the council to be seated. They sit down, and the cakes being uncovered, are eaten of by all classes of Sikhs: those distinctions of original tribes, which are, on occasions, kept up, being on this occasion laid aside, in token of their general and complete union in one cause. The Acalis then exclaim: "Sirdars! (Chiefs) this is Guru-mata!" on which prayers are again said aloud. The chiefs, after this sit closer, and say to each other: "The sacred Granth is betwixt us, let us swear by our scripture to forget all internal disputes, and to be united." This moment of religious fervor and ardent patriotism, is taken to reconcile all animosities. They then proceed to consider the danger with whcih they are threatened, to settle the best plans for averting it, and to choose the generals who are to lead their armies against the common enemy. The first Guru-mata was assembled by Guru Govinid; and the latest was called in 1805, when the British army pursued Holkar into the Penjab.

(pages. 120-123)

________________________

*Sir John Malcolm (May 2, 1769 ‑ 1833) was a Scottish soldier, statesman, and historian. He held various distinguished posts, being Ambassador to Persia, Resident of Gwalior (1803-1804) and Governor of Bombay 1827-1830. He was the author of several valuable works regarded as authorities, viz., Sketch of the Sikhs, a singular nation in the province of Penjab (1812), A History of Persia (1815), Memoir of Central India(1823), Political History of India from 1784 to 1823 (1826), and Life of Lord Clive (1836)

[BhForce]

This excerpt clearly shows the existence and acceptance of two different Granths. Also since he specifically names "Adi-Granth and Dasama Padshah ka Granth", it's clear he's not using Dasam Patshah da Granth to mean a recension of Guru Granth Sahib created by the 10th master.

Some Sikhs such as Dr. Jasbir Singh Mann want us to believe that the British or someone else introduced the Dasam Granth in the 19th century. I guess Dr. Mann thinks that the British would first write spurious sketches like the above, introduce the Dasam Granth, and then fool the Sikhs by pointing to those sketches as proof of the DG's acceptance.

But that would only work if 1) the British were in charge, and 2) many, many decades had passed and no Sikh remembered the DG parkash.

Yet the British weren't in charge of Punjab in 1812, nowhere close.

Finally, why would the British want to write a granth that encourages their opponent (the Sikhs) to bear arms? If anything, they would want to suppress it and thereby neuter the Sikh threat.

[Inder Singh]

This excerpt clearly shows the existence and acceptance of two different Granths. Also since he specifically names "Adi-Granth and Dasama Padshah ka Granth", it's clear he's not using Dasam Patshah da Granth to mean a recension of Guru Granth Sahib created by the 10th master.

Some Sikhs such as Dr. Jasbir Singh Mann want us to believe that the British or someone else introduced the Dasam Granth in the 19th century. I guess Dr. Mann thinks that the British would first write spurious sketches like the above, introduce the Dasam Granth, and then fool the Sikhs by pointing to those sketches as proof of the DG's acceptance.

But that would only work if 1) the British were in charge, and 2) many, many decades had passed and no Sikh remembered the DG parkash.

Yet the British weren't in charge of Punjab in 1812, nowhere close.

Finally, why would the British want to write a granth that encourages their opponent (the Sikhs) to bear arms? If anything, they would want to suppress it and thereby neuter the Sikh threat.

Jasbir Mann is a phoney scholar. he does not know ABC about Dasam Granth. Why i say thia? Because we confronted him on learning-zone three years back and exposed him in full view of sangat

that he has not read Dasam granth at all. He ran away from there and never posted on this issue.

Only thing he can do now is play mischief through his connections to put articles off and on in a sheepish way.

http://patshahi10.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=161:guru-mata-sir-john-malcolm&catid=34:english&Itemid=63

Maharaja Ranjit Singh listening to the two sacred Granths being recited near Sri Harimandir Sahib.

(A Painting by August Theodore Schoefft (1809-1888), made in Amritsar. From Princess Bamba Collection)

Note: The following is an excerpt from a book, Sketch of the Sikhs, a singular nation in the province of Penjab,written by Sir John Malcolm* in 1812. John Malcolm’s work is one of the rarest firsthand information recorded by a western historian on the lifestyle, belief systems and traditions of the Sikhs in Punjab during the 18^th century .

Guru-mata

When Gurmata or great national council, is called, (as it always is, or ought to be, when any imminent danger threatens the country, or any large expedition is to be undertaken) all the Sikh chiefs assemble at Amritsar. The assembly, which is called the Guru-mata, is convened by the Acalis; and when the chiefs meet upon this solemn occasion, it is concluded that all private animosities cease, and that every main sacrifices his personal feelings at the shrine of the general good; and, actuated by principles of pure patriotism, thinks of nothing but the interests of the religion, and commonwealth, to which he belongs. When the chiefs and principal leaders are seated, the Adi-Granth and Dasama Padshah ka Granth are placed before them. They all bend their heads before these scriptures, and exclaim, Wa! Guruji ka Khalsa! Wa! Guruji ki Fateh! A great quantity of cakes, made of wheat, butter, and sugar, are then placed before the volumes of their sacred writings, and covered with a cloth. These holy cakes, which are in commemoration of the injunction of Nanac, to eat and to give to others to eat, next receive the salutation of the assembly, who then rise, and the Acalis pray aloud, while the musicians play. The Acalis, then the prayers are finished, desire the council to be seated. They sit down, and the cakes being uncovered, are eaten of by all classes of Sikhs: those distinctions of original tribes, which are, on occasions, kept up, being on this occasion laid aside, in token of their general and complete union in one cause. The Acalis then exclaim: "Sirdars! (Chiefs) this is Guru-mata!" on which prayers are again said aloud. The chiefs, after this sit closer, and say to each other: "The sacred Granth is betwixt us, let us swear by our scripture to forget all internal disputes, and to be united." This moment of religious fervor and ardent patriotism, is taken to reconcile all animosities. They then proceed to consider the danger with whcih they are threatened, to settle the best plans for averting it, and to choose the generals who are to lead their armies against the common enemy. The first Guru-mata was assembled by Guru Govinid; and the latest was called in 1805, when the British army pursued Holkar into the Penjab. (pages. 120-123) ________________________

*Sir John Malcolm (May 2, 1769 ‑ 1833) was a Scottish soldier, statesman, and historian. He held various distinguished posts, being Ambassador to Persia, Resident of Gwalior (1803-1804) and Governor of Bombay 1827-1830. He was the author of several valuable works regarded as authorities, viz., Sketch of the Sikhs, a singular nation in the province of Penjab (1812), A History of Persia (1815), Memoir of Central India(1823), Political History of India from 1784 to 1823 (1826), and Life of Lord Clive (1836)

[Mike Singh]

This only one view of what was happening at the Akal Takht at the time of Malcolm, there was Akali Phula and his Akali Nihangs who ensured that

Amrit could only be undertaken at the Takht with both Granths prsent.

Read this great article that explains the role of the Dasam Granth at the Takht: Descriptions of the Dasam Granth from the "Sketch of the Sikhs" in view of Sikh History

http://www.sridasamg...cles/4526835041

Go to article 21.

[BhForce]

What's the learning-zone?

Anybody that's reading who is in confusion about the Dasam Granth: Just ask yourself why the British would want to encourage Sikhs to take up arms?

Have the British encouraged any other colonial entity to take up arms? It's one thing for the American founders to say:

* Patrick Henry: "The great objective is that every man be armed. . . . Everyone who is able may have a gun."

* George Mason: "To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them."

* Benjamin Franklin: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

But why would the British say that?

In the same way, it's one thing for 10th Master to say:

"Kal tuhu kali tuhi tuhi tabak aur tir"

But why would the British want to encourage that?

[Inder Singh]

learning-zone is a discussion forum.

I have not understood your query about British? Mann is a fool to link Dasam granth with british. He is outrightly bigot.His lies will be exposed by dedicated gursikhs in due course of time.

[TejiKaur]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

now I believe 100 percent in the Sri Dasam Granth Sahib and I have no doubts that it is Dasmesh Pitas Bani\

buir paralell Parkash I mean Guru Arjun Dev Ji would sleep on the floor While Guru Granth Sahib took up the bed

our Guru is Guru Granth Sahib Ji

Guru Gobind Singh Jis bani is for the Khalsa

it holds all the strengh n spirit

but Dhan Dhan Guru Granth Sahib Ji is Jagat Guru

if they are parkashed togather we should (even if we may not want to but of respect for Guru Gobind SIngh Jis wishes) have Dasam Granth Ji at alittle lower level

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru JI ki Fateh

[Southall Fauj]

judgement day for the nutty proffesser almost here

new vid showing all the mahan people of the panth supporting dg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qunSGOvYvWk

[BhForce]

It's true the question of parkash is separate from whether Guru Gobind Singh ji wrote Dasam Bani.

The point about the British is this: Some Dasam Granth opponents say the British introduced the DG to Punjab. My question to them is, why would the British promote a work that encourages people to bear arms?

Did the British encourage residents of their other colonies (such as America, Kenya, Ireland, etc.) to take up weapons? So why would they encourage Sikhs to take up weapons?

[BhForce]

If anything, the British were very happy to see Dasam Granth taken out of Sikh life and consciousness.