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Dudley Singhs

Ekta.......Is This A Dream Or A Reality?

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Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

I would like to first state that im not a very knowledgable person in regards to Sikhi and Panth, but i do try, so if i say something wrong in my post please inform me of it and correct me and i would also like to apologise in advance.

I would like to discuss the topic of Ekta, as i was watching Panth Time on Sikh Channel on Saturday, from Guru Nanak Gurdwara, Smethwick. In my opinion, in the current climate, Ekta in the Khalsa Panth cannot be achieved. People are more dedicated to their Jathebandiya than they are to the "Khalsa Panth". I remember a Singh standing up in that programme and saying Ekta for who? Who do we want Ekta for? How are we going to get Ekta when we are not at one with ourselves? I would like to support this view as i believe he was right. The core values of Sikhi, values that Guru Nanak Devi Ji instilled in people were to do with Ekta of yourself and people were. I think that just like to Khalistan issue, the issue of "Can there ever be Ekta in the Panth" is a very very distant thing, as grass roots and the individual are things we need to concentrate on. Forgiveness, humbleness, honesty, sharing, togetherness, serving......the CORE elements of Sikhi. Guru Nanak Dev Jis message. If we dont have these core values, we cant have Ekta withourselves, therefore we cant have Ekta with our family, therefore we cant have Ekta with the community, so how can we even begin to even think about Panthic Ekta? its not just a case of not having these values, its a case of the fact that us not having them means we have others in their place. E.g. Hate, stubbornness, revenge, ignorance, anger, ego.......

Such are the feelings that certain Jatha's feel for others. This fact is the reason why so many Sikhs are Anti Khalistani (Being hated as a result by Jatha's who appose this view, increasing the gap between division and Ekta). Khalistan is not what will acheive Ekta: More Money, More Power = More Problems. Having said that, i myself am pro-Khalistan. For the reason of Sant Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale's qurbani. Now theres proof of Ekta occuring. Im my opinion, events and atrocities of 1984 led to Ekta occuring. If tanks rolled into Siri Harmandir Sahib today id like to meet a Singh who would say that he wouldnt go and defend Sikhi. As i believe every Singh would and should. Is that what it should take to bring about Ekta? Should things have to get so bad to make Sikhs unite? Although the events of Ludhiana were very tragic this year, i was hopeful and a little convinced that events like these can unite different Jatha's of our Panth. But i wish that it didnt take such events to wake people up......

Carrying on the issue of Khalistan and again on Panth Time, there was a Singh that said reiterated the issue of Khalistan and why we are asking about it now when we should be concentrating on grass roots. Although i have mentioned i believe that these grass roots start within ourselves, i would like to support this Singh's view about the role that Gurdwara's play (or can play) in supporting Khalistan or bringing about Ekta in general. I can relate to the issue of youth oppression in Gurdwara committies and Sangat as i have been struggling with it myself for two years being in the committee of my local Gurdwara. Gurdware are now all about power struggles, mis-trust of youth from elders, and to be frank, just like a business that turns over profit. Committees are content with opening locking up the Gurdwara and receiving enough donations to keep the place running.

Id like to challenge my elders, the committees of Gurdware, id like to ask them what they have done for the cause of Khalistan? 25 years have passed and committees have in fact gone in the other direction. they dont want it to be mentioned on their stages, they dont want the "hassle". yes, you may have lived through that era, and i know youve lived in fear of even just being a Singh, and i know you think it better to be quiet. but ive heard all the horror stories, and people my age and my generation are the ones that WANT to have justice, and WANT to fight for the rights of Sikhs, and WANT redemption at any cost. We know the language, we know how to communicate, we know how to make use of political avenues. so why dont you just give the youth a platform? get past your thinking of "they are going to close us down, they are going to waste our money, we dont get on with his dad, his uncle once spoke innapriately to me". get past that. because there are two ways around this. one way is you ACCEPTING that the youth are future. and when you go, they WILL take over, and as a result you start integrating them into your institutions now, and begin trusting them and teaching them the running of the Gurdwara. thats the humble route. Otherwise, it will be a case of community disruption and division, arguments, more power struggles.....and to use the example of the Gurdwara in Surrey, Canada as an example (as it has a youth committee) the sangat see what is right and what is not, they see the corruption in Gurdwara's and speaking from my personal experience, i believe they would support change and ensure it takes place.

Having said this much, id like to apologise for the many errors i must have made. I truly am sorry.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh.

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Id like to challenge my elders, the committees of Gurdware, id like to ask them what they have done for the cause of Khalistan? 25 years have passed and committees have in fact gone in the other direction.

Which direction? this is from a another foolish Jatt posting on yahoo: http://answers.yahoo...22125320AAgSvGi

Sikh 26 in US , wanna cut my hair but really confused to do it or not.?

I belong to sikh religion 26 in US from last 1yr ....I'm really fed up of me looking different ...I was never in favor of keep hair's personally its just that I never got change to get rid of it before & also my parents wud not feel so well...

But now I feel its affecting me both ways ...1) girls wont approach easily 2) at work I'm being treated as special or I say differently because of my looks...

I wont blame others for there behaviour its normal of anyone to think twice before talking to a person who looks different but then now I feel its high time.............but now sometime I feel its too late ......26 yr old.... it would be complete change in my personality ...kind of loose my identity & getting new.............

what shld I do...........inside I want to do it...just afraid of what ppl will say for first few months .........

  • 2 years ago

Best Answer - Chosen by Voters

bro am an indian..a muslim... wear a hijab...am nt ashamed of my identity ,in fact am proud of it..'ve u seen rang de basanti..?..see..u r u no matterwhat nyone thinks of u..u'r parents 've bought u up vit all deir luv n hope..can't u just do dis to appease dem...bro in case u 've nt been to india so far..tak a breakfrom u'r work ..visit here...hope u meet d rite persons...

i wud advise u to wear u'r turban vit pride...man...

  • Haha 1

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I think we should let Sikhs living in India get on with their own lives, as they know best what they want. They can choose for themselves what they want.

Sikhs in Punjab are travelling across India, they have jobs, business, university/college places in different parts of India. The sikh youth are finding jobs in gurgaon, Bangalore, Hyderabad etc.., making friends and relationships with their fellow Indians, and last thing they need is the turmoil of communal violence, partiton and extremism. A lot of sikhs have relations spread across India.

At the moment I think they appear to be happy and proud to be Indians.

A lot of Sikhs born and brought up or been living here in the U.K. for over 25 yrs or, U.S., Canada etc, have little experience of living and working in Punjab or any part of India. Unless you have and serious plans to go to India and live, pay taxes, or sacrifice your own families for your religious causes, it is better we stop causing trouble for sikhs living in India.

We have historical Gurudwaras in Delhi, Patna, Nanded. Tell me if you ever did get Khalistan, you will have to get separate visas to go there, and we will have to add these prayers of having darshan of these places in our Ardas, as we do with darshan for Pakistan Gurudwaras.

Have you thought about the 40% Hindus of Punjab? Have you thought about sikh minorities living across India, and where will they. We dont want another 1947, so lets move on with our lives and try to improve ourselves wherever we are settled abroad. If you want interefere in politics of India, I suggest you go and live there.

As for bhindrawale, there are so many negative things about him, that I cant believe he has been declared a saint. The people that like him, all seem to live in U.K. and Canada, not in India !!!

Even Guru Hargobind left Amritsar after the first battle, so that the historical shrines dont get attacked, same for Guru Govind Singh, he made his foritifications elsewhere in a more stratgeic location.

Bhindrawale is to blame for all events of 1984, he should have fought his battles by making his own castles. Harimandir sahib is not for such use.

Khalistan movement is nothing but Pakistan's attempt to get revenge on India for Bangladesh. They want to break India. Khalistanis are nothing but a Sikh version of Taliban.

All these old people on Sikh Channel demanding Khalistan, have nothing better to do now, they have settled in the U.K. and now they want to cause trouble in India. They all seem to love Pakistan, but they seem to forget Sikhs got ethnically cleansed in 1947 by Muslims in Pakistan. If they want Khalistan they should start with Pakistan first and demand Lahore (was that not our capital during Sikh rule!!). But they wont because Khalistanis are being supported by Pakistanis.

If we want unity, all sikhs need to unite, at the moment it seems sikh channel is only uniting for the sake of Khalistani's. All those who do not want Khalistan or do not like Bhaindrawale (who are a probably a majority of the total sikh population) are being ignore or silenced by the channel.

We can only move forward and unite, if we respect everyones views, and listen and talk in respcectful manner, at the moment it there appears to be an attempt in the process to hijack sikh institutions by extremists!

You dont get Unity by justing having one narrow opinion of Sikhism, you get unity by bringing together people of different opinions and views on to one platform so they can discuss in a civilised manner and put forward realistic solutions to real problems.

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"Even Guru Hargobind left Amritsar after the first battle, so that the historical shrines dont get attacked, same for Guru Govind Singh, he made his foritifications elsewhere in a more stratgeic location."

Guru Hargobind Sahib Jee fought defending Amritsar and left afterwards for their own reasons, Guru Jaanay. Guru Gobind Singh Jee stayed in Anandpur Sahib and fought to defend it from mughal/rajput attack

"Bhindrawale is to blame for all events of 1984, he should have fought his battles by making his own castles. Harimandir sahib is not for such use."

Sant Jarnail Singh and the Singhs fought defending Hermandir Sahib

Now, was Sant Jarnail Singh at the complex when the indian army made preparations to attack 18 months before?

Was it not the Indian army who imposed a curfew on the complex 2 days before, allowing people in but not out of the complex?

Was it not the Indian army who opened indiscriminate fire on 1st June 1984, firing 34 shots at Hermandir Sahib for no reason whatsoever?

Baba Gurbax Singh Jee and Baba Deep Singh Jee and countless other Gursikhs have given Shaheedi there, tell me, were they also making Hermandir Sahib their castle?

Was Sant Jarnail Singh also responsible for state sponsored terrorism in Punjab and elsewhere pre/post 1984?

"Khalistan movement is nothing but Pakistan's attempt to get revenge on India for Bangladesh. They want to break India. Khalistanis are nothing but a Sikh version of Taliban."

Khalistan is the birthright of the Sikh nation. Khalistan is the same as Khalsa Raaj and the Kesri Nishaan Sahib will soon fly over your laal kila. This is the bachans given by Guru Sahib themselves and various Mahapurakhs. Muppets like yourself can carry out spurting your propaganda but time will reveal the truth :rolleyes:

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http://sikhithoughts.blogspot.com/2010/03/back-to-basics.html ..........Blog Update:

"If some lucky men survive the onslaught of the third world war of atomic and hydrogen bombs, then the Sikh religion will be the only means of guiding them.' When asked, isn’t this religion capable of guiding mankind before the third world war? He said, ‘Yes it has the capability, but the Sikhs haven’t brought out in the broad daylight the splendid doctrines of this religion, which has come into existence for the benefit of the entire mankind. This is their greatest sin and the Sikhs cannot be freed of it."

Bertrand Russell (Philosopher, Mathematician 1872-1970)

Half of us don't follow the 'splendid doctrines of this religion'. How can this dude expect us to teach others about it??

We spend so much time worrying about tiny details in reht (conduct), pro vs anti-khalistan, jatha v jatha (groups/sects within Sikhi) that we've forgotten the basics of Sikhi:

Truth, Contentment, Humility, Love, Honest earning (Kirat Karna), Seva (selfless service) Vand ke Shakna (Sharing), Reading Gurbani and most importantly Naam Japna (contemplation on the Divine Name).

I bet you ANY money, once we start practicing all of these aspects together, everything will fall into place...until then...

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respect to comradz for your reply, much needed.

Jai Singh...

"Have you thought about the 40% Hindu's living in Punjab?"

Although i didnt agree with any of your message and dismissed it as coming from someone who does not have Sikhi in their heart, the above question of yours promted me to reply and voice my opinion.

Yes, i have thought about the 40% of Hindu's living in Punjab. But ive also thought of the thousands of Sikhs that werent living in Punjab who were brutally murdered, ive also thought about the thousands of sikhs who gave their lives to make india independant. you want to talk figures? 90% of all people who were martyred in relation to independance were Sikhs. Ive also thought about the many women who live in Widows Colony, left alone due to every generation of male family members in their lives being tortured and killed in front of their eyes, ive also thought about the plea's by the indian government of india, asking sikhs to stick by them "you are our right arm sword" eventually being promised a homeland. ive even thought about how after these very people turned around and declared that sikhs are "Hindu's with long hair" in their constitution. and that they should "clean themselves up and cut their hair" - words fromthe chief of justice, 2 years after independance.

ive thought about all of these things AND more brother.

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To comradz_singhs

I expected people ( i wont call you funny names like you do when you get with frustrated by liberal minded opinions by sikhs!) like you to say I am not a proper sikh and of spreading hindu propaganda here. Please be advised I am sikh, but one who is prepared for to discuss matters openly. If you dont believe then I can only apologise.

You say Guru Gobind Singh defended Anandpur sahib, and you use this as a justification for Bhindrawale's action. In the 17th century Anandpur sahib was not Anandpur sahib as we know it now, Guru Gobind Singh developed Chakk Guru, or Makhowal as it was then known as a fortified town. This had been the base of the Guru's since the 6 th Guru who decided to move here for its more strategic location, and where sikhs could defend themselves more easily than in the plains of the Punjab. The Gurus fortified this place as they knew full well this place would come under attack.

The aim of Guru Govind Singh was to bring the Hindus ( Hill Rajas/rajputs) together with the Sikhs and overthrow the cruel Islamic Mughal Governement. I cant find any historical evidence which suggests that Guru Govind Singh tried to carve out his own sikh state, so to separate Hindus and Sikhs. The Gurus were friends with the Raja's of Jaipur, Assam etc.. and they travelled extensivelly around India to spread their message. If they wanted Punjab, they would have stayed in one area, such as Punjab. You need to remember the Gurus were for everyone, and they throught big and in to the future. They wanted to reform all the people of India from a religious and social viewpoint. In Dasam Granth Guru Govind Singh has even confirmed his ancestoral lineage back to the sons of Ram, Luv and Kush. Read all of Bachittar Natak it clearly outines the purpose of his life : to destroy the tyrants, for sake of Dharma, righteousness and to protect the saints.

Next, point about Baba Deep Singh. Baba Deep Singh did not base himself in Harmandir Sahib. When he heard that Harmandir Sahib had been attacked in 1757, he travelled from Damadama Sahib to avenge the attack against the Afghans and free the place from the Afghans. I would suggest you go and read some history on sikhs in 18th century, before you put forward your baseless arguments.

Why do you think Banda Singh Bahadur did not make his capital Amritsar, and instead chose Lohgarh, in the Shiwalik hills??? !!!!

To Dudley Singhs -

I read your comments in favour of Khalistan. Fine, they are your opinions I respect you for that. But believe me killings and murders happened both ways, in the late 1980s many innocent Hindus in Punjab got killed by Khalistan fanatics. Who is accounting for them, who is apologising for that? You. I dont think so. Because you dont care.

Attacks on Sikhs in Delhi 1984 were organised by the Congress party, not by the general Hindu population of Delhi. It was an anti-sikh riot not a Hindu-Sikh riot, you need to remember that.

The authoriser of the riot was Rajiv Gandhi, he is not alive anymore. I agree that the people like Tytler and Sajjan Kumar who worked under his instruction and anybody else involved should be punished for what they did wrong.

One thing I note that you Khalistanis, never ever really bother about how you are going to deal through the political or judicial process in India or through International organisations to get justice for the victims of 1984, and to bring the perpretators of these hideous crimes to book. All you want is Khalistan!

My recomendation to you is first go and live in India for the long term, mix with the people there and then demand what you want directly from Indian Government.

I cant find 5 sikhs in India who want Khalistan!! All you Khalistanis who think you no more than all the non-Khalistani sikhs all live outside India! I know some Khalistanis who are less than 25 years old, and have never been to India in their life !!

We need to unite and work together, Hindus and Sikhs together, to improve things for ourselves, and resolve any internal issues. By breaking ourselves from each other and spreading hatred and propaganda, you can never achieve unity in any form. The Gurus preached love, this brings people together (Guru Granth Sahib includes Bhagats like Namdev, Jaidev, Surdas famous Hindu poets from around India), hatred divides mankind. Lets work to unite, not break and cause partitions.

You have seen what happened in 1947, dont tell me you want a repeat.

I think that says it all !!!

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In pm I have been talking to a individual that says the exact samething that jai singh said about Sant ji. These individuals have no knowledge on the event of 1984, but they act if they have their phds in this topic. Their source to learn the facts is a congress print out, so what do you expect from them.

Jai Singh, (also could be the person who I am talking to through pm under a different id) is here to spread propaganda and mod please keep an eye on him and the members will do their part on reporting post that slander Sant ji.

Singh comradz has given the facts here and I would like to add that on the same day Sri Akal Takht was attacked 40 other Gurdwaras were attacked aswell. Your illerate theories don't make sense and academically people like jai singh should be removed from society and put in a learning center. There punishment for such stupidity should be do get educated.

Jai it's time to take your sheep clothing off and put on some big boy pants.

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In pm I have been talking to a individual that says the exact samething that jai singh said about Sant ji. These individuals have no knowledge on the event of 1984, but they act if they have their phds in this topic. Their source to learn the facts is a congress print out, so what do you expect from them.

Jai Singh, (also could be the person who I am talking to through pm under a different id) is here to spread propaganda and mod please keep an eye on him and the members will do their part on reporting post that slander Sant ji.

Singh comradz has given the facts here and I would like to add that on the same day Sri Akal Takht was attacked 40 other Gurdwaras were attacked aswell. Your illerate theories don't make sense and academically people like jai singh should be removed from society and put in a learning center. There punishment for such stupidity should be do get educated.

Jai it's time to take your sheep clothing off and put on some big boy pants.

Read my post above yours. I think you missed that!!

If you think that I have two different ID's, then sorry thats your opinion. I cant help you further on that.

Your talking as though you were with Bhindrawale in 1984, and you helped him escape!!! ( that theory that Bhindrawale never died in 1984 and he escaped by Khalistanis, makes me laugh. You need your brains checked !!!)

You should be monitored for spreading hate, extremist, and terrorist propoganda.

I am sorry that I dont belong to your primitive club! Clearly, you are unable to discuss matters in an amicable manner or accept different opinions.

Dont worry I wont be spoiling your Khalistani propoganda anymore. I will let you carry on, as I HAVE SAID WHAT I HAD TO SAY. THIS AND MY POSTS ABOVE IS MY FINAL RESPONSES ON THESE MATTERS.

Any intelligent person can see whose right or wrong.

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In pm I have been talking to a individual that says the exact samething that jai singh said about Sant ji. These individuals have no knowledge on the event of 1984, but they act if they have their phds in this topic. Their source to learn the facts is a congress print out, so what do you expect from them.

Jai Singh, (also could be the person who I am talking to through pm under a different id) is here to spread propaganda and mod please keep an eye on him and the members will do their part on reporting post that slander Sant ji.

Singh comradz has given the facts here and I would like to add that on the same day Sri Akal Takht was attacked 40 other Gurdwaras were attacked aswell. Your illerate theories don't make sense and academically people like jai singh should be removed from society and put in a learning center. There punishment for such stupidity should be do get educated.

Jai it's time to take your sheep clothing off and put on some big boy pants.

Read my post above yours. I think you missed that!!

If you think that I have two different ID's, then sorry thats your opinion. I cant help you further on that.

I read your post above and laughed at how young your knowledge is on this topic, but you write as if you got a phd in 1984 attack. So narrow the gap between the two and come back to earth.

What you wrote in that post I have already discussed with sherepunjab, who said the exact samething as you only he added surrey youth slate and try to make the topic go off on a tangent. Both of you have the same misleading info on this topic and both hate Sant ji. It doesn't take much to put the two together. But I'll repeat myself and show how misleading your post is. You can yell and scream all you like, history doesn't change.

Your talking as though you were with Bhindrawale in 1984, and you helped him escape!!! ( that theory that Bhindrawale never died in 1984 and he escaped by Khalistanis, makes me laugh. You need your brains checked !!!)

Who said anything about Sant ji escaping, only person saying this is you and trust me this diverse tactics don'e work, so save it for your boiz, aite!!!!

You should be monitored for spreading hate, extremist, and terrorist propoganda.

Honestly is extreme for an individual like you. I didn't expect any else from you.

I am sorry that I dont belong to your primitive club! Clearly, you are unable to discuss matters in an amicable manner or accept different opinions.

I know the Khalsa Panth doesn't accept lairs and decievers. That's one of the policy the Khalsa Panth has. You might want to look into why it's so highly respected. Also your theories on how things went down don't make sense, why in the world would I accept propaganda. I forgot your part of the congress club, propaganda is your middle name.

Dont worry I wont be spoiling your Khalistani propoganda anymore. I will let you carry on, as I HAVE SAID WHAT I HAD TO SAY. THIS AND MY POSTS ABOVE IS MY FINAL RESPONSES ON THESE MATTERS.

Any intelligent person can see whose right or wrong.

now since the fun time is over I'll go through your post and shed light on it. But I do like the challenges you moderate Brahmins bring to try to speak bad about honorable men. Too bad your always on the losing end. There is room on the truth end, if you want to join, but the seats only open for certain period of time, then it's off to the jamdoot.

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To comradz_singhs

I expected people ( i wont call you funny names like you do when you get with frustrated by liberal minded opinions by sikhs!) like you to say I am not a proper sikh and of spreading hindu propaganda here. Please be advised I am sikh, but one who is prepared for to discuss matters openly. If you dont believe then I can only apologise.

Liberal minded Sikhs, what happened to the moderate Sikhs.laugh.gif Come on pal first learn there is no such thing. Next they'll come out with NDP Sikh, Green Pary Sikh, Conservaitive Sikh, Republican Sikh, Democrate Sikh, Congress Sikh.

You say Guru Gobind Singh defended Anandpur sahib, and you use this as a justification for Bhindrawale's action. In the 17th century Anandpur sahib was not Anandpur sahib as we know it now, Guru Gobind Singh developed Chakk Guru, or Makhowal as it was then known as a fortified town. This had been the base of the Guru's since the 6 th Guru who decided to move here for its more strategic location, and where sikhs could defend themselves more easily than in the plains of the Punjab. The Gurus fortified this place as they knew full well this place would come under attack.

The aim of Guru Govind Singh was to bring the Hindus ( Hill Rajas/rajputs) together with the Sikhs and overthrow the cruel Islamic Mughal Governement.

See right here this is misleading. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji primary goal was not to bring Hindus and SIkhs together, but bring peace, where no matter who it is, can live freely and not be oppressed by the ruling class, which in that time was the Mughals. When people live peaceful without inflicting their beleifs on another then all people live peacefully together on the same land.

I cant find any historical evidence which suggests that Guru Govind Singh tried to carve out his own sikh state, so to separate Hindus and Sikhs.

I applaud you for your decieving ways. Vah, all that effort put into decieve people, only if it was put toward truth, you could actually accomplish something pure. This goes back to what I was talking about above bring peace. In order to bring peace and freedom on people, you have to defeat the ruling class that is oppressing everyone. The reason why the Mughals were able to oppress people was because they had a big army and they (the bells should be ring like no tomorrow after this sentence) owned/held under their control the land and were able to enforce their laws on people. If they didn't have the land where people lived and could not enter then they can't oppress people!!!!, Do you get it now or should I go further (I know you know the truth, but are just trying to decieve people so I'm keep going). The land which people live on has to be ruled by freedom fighters. Otherwise your stuck with oppressors who put their fanatic rules on you. The LAND is not the primary reason for Khalistan, just like for Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji, but to live freely it is required. Unless your a person who wants to live on air in the sky like aldin's genie, which your writing tells me you are(Can I have my three wishes nowbiggrin.gif ).

The Gurus were friends with the Raja's of Jaipur, Assam etc.. and they travelled extensivelly around India to spread their message. If they wanted Punjab, they would have stayed in one area, such as Punjab. You need to remember the Gurus were for everyone, and they throught big and in to the future. They wanted to reform all the people of India from a religious and social viewpoint. In Dasam Granth Guru Govind Singh has even confirmed his ancestoral lineage back to the sons of Ram, Luv and Kush. Read all of Bachittar Natak it clearly outines the purpose of his life : to destroy the tyrants, for sake of Dharma, righteousness and to protect the saints.

The Gurus were spreading Dharma to everyone and they traveled for that reason and to take people out of opression. Your not making sense. How can Guru Sahib spread his message to everyone, when you had mughals that were holding towns under their control and Guru Sahib was a enem to them. Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji freed people first from the oppressors and then was able to spread the Dharma. Again this comes back to land, but again land is a secondary reason for the bigger goal (FREEDOM). Land is a tool used for bigger goals. Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji after freeing the people did he just leave the land or kept his Khalsa their to look over it and make sure THE MUGHALS DON'T COME BACK. Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji left his Khalsa in charge to make sure no fools can oppress anyone in that area. Now was land the reason why Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji left his Khalsa in charge. NO! IT WAS BECAUSE THEN NO MOORAKH CAN HURT ANYONE ANYMORE IN THAT REGION. At this point you should be shaking your head up and down and in your brain you should be saying. Blink!!! the light bulb just turned on.

Next, point about Baba Deep Singh. Baba Deep Singh did not base himself in Harmandir Sahib. When he heard that Harmandir Sahib had been attacked in 1757, he travelled from Damadama Sahib to avenge the attack against the Afghans and free the place from the Afghans. I would suggest you go and read some history on sikhs in 18th century, before you put forward your baseless arguments.

The fact you present the info yourself and are unable to see the light is real funny. So Baba Deep Singh ji did not base himself at Harmandir Sahib. Not going into history then that would mean if he had based himself in Harmandir Sahib then ahmad shah abdali would not have been able to destroy Harmindir Sahib. But Baba Deep Singh ji at the time was fight against other oppression so it was not his fault. But the point is clear, if Baba Deep Singh ji was on the land at the time this would not have happened. Again land is just secondary reason for the over all goal of freedom.

Why do you think Banda Singh Bahadur did not make his capital Amritsar, and instead chose Lohgarh, in the Shiwalik hills??? !!!!

[/quote

Ignorance is truly bliss. Bhai Sahib, when Baba Deep Singh ji wasn't there in Harmandir Sahib it still got attacked. So it did not matter if Baba Banda Singh Bahadur was there or not, if Harmandir Sahib was going to be attacked again then it would have happened, regardless if they were their or not(but if they were their surely we would be reading history differently). Now let's just forward to 1984. We know the Indian army was already planning to attack harmandir Sahib, even before Sant ji went in. So by Sant ji going in he stood up to protecting it, just like Baba Deep Singh ji would have done if he found out sooner what was going to go on there. True Khalsa don't sit back and let their Gurdwara be attacked by butchers. If Sant ji didn't go then Harmandir Sahib would have still been attacked by the Indian Army. But instead of calling Sant ji bad for going in, you would be calling him bad for not going to protecting it and being called a Sant. Your tail will never straighten out.

To Dudley Singhs -

I read your comments in favour of Khalistan. Fine, they are your opinions I respect you for that. But believe me killings and murders happened both ways, in the late 1980s many innocent Hindus in Punjab got killed by Khalistan fanatics. Who is accounting for them, who is apologising for that? You. I dont think so. Because you dont care.

Did Singhs kill these people. NO it was opportunitist who wanted to capitilize over the conflict. Just like today opportunist are waiting to collect off the current conflict Darshan laal against Khalsa Panth.

Attacks on Sikhs in Delhi 1984 were organised by the Congress party, not by the general Hindu population of Delhi. It was an anti-sikh riot not a Hindu-Sikh riot, you need to remember that.

This is exactly what the sherepunjab member said. So you can get up and swear on your congress holy book of, how to decieve and butcher anothers, that no Hindu killed one Sikh. Bring out the garbage trucks we got alot of trash here.

The authoriser of the riot was Rajiv Gandhi, he is not alive anymore. I agree that the people like Tytler and Sajjan Kumar who worked under his instruction and anybody else involved should be punished for what they did wrong.

You say your congress party changed, these Hindu fanatics are up to the same old ways, just now there under knew faces, but same ideology.

One thing I note that you Khalistanis, never ever really bother about how you are going to deal through the political or judicial process in India or through International organisations to get justice for the victims of 1984, and to bring the perpretators of these hideous crimes to book. All you want is Khalistan!

Very smart tactic, but it won't work. The Sikh youth slate here in surrey are 100% behind Sant ji's word. Ask Bikramjit Singh ji of what he thinks about Sant ji. And the people that are trying to get justice are with Sant ji. Only fanatical people like you are against a land of freedom. Your tail will never straighten, said this already, but their is a reason why I repeat it.

My recomendation to you is first go and live in India for the long term, mix with the people there and then demand what you want directly from Indian Government.

I cant find 5 sikhs in India who want Khalistan!! All you Khalistanis who think you no more than all the non-Khalistani sikhs all live outside India! I know some Khalistanis who are less than 25 years old, and have never been to India in their life !!

The amount you lie, I can write a 100 page report. I know, you mean only five people support your fanatical ways.

We need to unite and work together, Hindus and Sikhs together, to improve things for ourselves, and resolve any internal issues. By breaking ourselves from each other and spreading hatred and propaganda, you can never achieve unity in any form. The Gurus preached love, this brings people together (Guru Granth Sahib includes Bhagats like Namdev, Jaidev, Surdas famous Hindu poets from around India), hatred divides mankind. Lets work to unite, not break and cause partitions.

You have seen what happened in 1947, dont tell me you want a repeat.

I think that says it all !!!

Who said anything about breaking. Khalistan is not about breaking but about strengthing the Khalsa Panth and letting people live without being oppressed today.

What I told sherepunjab. Go to india find yourself a wife get married and then get your marriage certificate and put it in your office. Frame that thing and be proud that your marriage is under Hindu marriage act. Laddo and galibe for everyone Jai is officially a Hindu and slave.

Again I say put on your big boy pants and take your sheep clothing off.

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liberate Akal Thakt n sikh institutionz 4rm hindu forces thn u will gt guranteed unity

its Guru Gobind Singh Ji not Guru Govind as you say so called jai singh hindu undacova

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Unity is a word we sikhs today dont really deserve to use in my opinion.

Much of the real life bickering and arguments among sikhs are clear to see just from the internet.

If they really wanted a united front they would take real steps towards it.

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