Attack Renews Sikh Dagger Debate

[Only five]

Some people are aware of it, but for majority they have no clue, even what the criminal Code is. In there it say anyone can carry a knife that has a blade 3 to 4 inches long and in some province it could be longer to different laws. So basically a pocket knife can be carried by any average joe.

How is that relevant? If it is relevant please paste the relevant section of the Criminal Code so we can look at it. Also, the Criminal Code of Canada is a federal statute and, as such, applies equally to all provinces.

It applies equally to all, then are all the rules the same, across the provinces? You can't see the connection between anybody is able to carry a knife with a 3 to 4 inch blade and Sikhs carrying Kirpans as freedom of religion? If Sikhs are not allowed to carry a kirpan then it becomes an infringment on their rights as Canadians.

It seems like you want to prove me wrong so pull up the criminal code and tell everyone which section speaks on knife carrying. And if there is not a section like this that exist, then just say it doesn't exist.

Here is the whole code

http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/cc/cc.html

Further to show Darshan laal and followers propaganda, we need to look back into the protest that took place in the UK. We have followers of Darshan Laal saying in the newspapers that no voilence broke out there. Now this is a complete lie. There was violence because Darshan Laal goons used wood sticks and metal rods to streak Singhs.

The reason why Darshan Laal is saying there was no violence in UK is because then he can say only the violence started here in Canada and previous protest were peaceful, therefore meaning I am innocent of knowing such things like this would happen(violence breaking out). The Gurdwara that invited him, Sikh lehar centre (members) and Darshan laal can be both charged with criminal offense. These goons knew violence would break out, like in Uk, and they still held an event that would disturb the peace here in Canada.

Please post the relevant section of the Criminal Code under which Sikh Lehar Centre/Members or Darshan Laal can be charged and explain. I don't think you are correct.

here you go sir,

http://www.efc.ca/pa...w/cc/cc.30.html

If the link does not open up then please go to section 30 of the criminal code of Canada. Darshan laal has been recongized as an excommunicated person from the Khalsa Panth, ruling given by the authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahb ji. Every Sikh or person that calls himself a Sikh or is a member of a Gurdwara or any other Sikh organization must obey the order given by the authority of Sri Akal Takht Sahib ji (not to associate or let him(Darshan Laal0 speak at a Sikh function). This ruling applies to everyone. Since Darshan Laal knew his presence and giving a sermon will cause problems(we saw violence break out in UK and will violate his conditions) and he is going against the Supreme Authority(Sri Akal Takht Sahib ji) and he was well aware of what will take place (the peace will be disturbed) then in my opinion his actions were intentional and deliberate. Which means a judge can give a ruling where Darshan Laal is not allowed to speak at any Sikh function, until the Supreme Authority of Sikhism gives him the right too. Otherwise Darshan laal will try to speak again at a Gurdwara and cause problems in Canada again.

It is not my intent to prove you wrong, but to have a well thought out discussion without jumping to conclusions.

In regards to Canadians having the right to carry a knife that is 3-4 inches in length, I haven't looked at the Criminal Code to find that Section but assuming that it does exist, I would comment as follows:

1) The Courts have recognized that the Kirpan is an "ARTICLE OF FAITH", if it was to be defined as a knife, we would be in trouble. I strongly recommend that no one refer to it as a knife or a weapon - it is an ARTICLE OF OUR FAITH that we are required to have on our person at all times. Also, most people should have a kirpan between 6 and 12 inches in length, that would not fit in the 3-4 inch exemption for knives that you referred to. That being said, a kirpan is not a knife and should not be defined as one.

2) There is case law around the kirpan and we need to be careful on how we represent our faith and articles of faith to the general public. Relying on a provision in the criminal code around knives will do no good but will have a lot of negative repercussions.

This is funny, the kirpan is being defined by the goons as a weaponed, so that's why i gave the example of a knife. In the context they put it kirpan=knife then it still is allowed( I am making the knuckle heads to understand even a bat or beer bottle or pens, kitchen knives, pencil can be used as a weaponed and by their thinking we should ban all these types, But that's why i said as Candians, Sikhs can wear kirpan on the bases of freedom of religion.

In regards to Section 30 of the Criminal Code, I can assure you that it does not apply to this situation and Darshan nor anyone affiliated with Sikh Lehar Centre will be charged for what happened at the protest.

I am not talking about charges here, but a stop order placed on Darshan Laal, so he can't disturb the peace anymore here in Canada. It's to prevent further violence from breaking out.

This is what it comes down to in my mind.

1) Sikh Lehar Centre was established to cause trouble and preach Kala Afghana/Darshan propoganda

2) Darshan is not to speak at any Gurdwara as per Akal Takht

3) Sikh Lehar Centre has allowed Darshan to speak despite Akal Takht ruling

4) Singhs have been upset with Sikh Lehar Centre since it opened and with its members and supporters

5) Singhs heard Darshan was to speak on Friday at Sikh Lehar, they gathered at Glidden Gurdwara to organize a protest to stop Darsahn from speaking

6) An hour before going to Sikh Lehar from Glidden Gurdwara Singhs received notice that Darshan was not going to speak and that the program was cancelled

7) Protestors decided that since they will still go to Sikh Lehar Centre, out of the large group of protestors a small groups sole purpose was to fight and they were heard saying things like "get ready to give your head"

8) Protestors arrived and tried to enter the Sikh Lehar Centre and were denied entry and were told that the program by Darshan was cancelled (people may say denying access to a gurdwara is means for violence BUT Malton Gurdwara, Dixie Gurdwara, Rexdale Gurdwara have all denied access to different people at different times and are all a 10 minute drive from Sikh Lehar Centre - so it does not make sense for anyone to take a stand only here and not at the others - that is hypocrisy)

9) Mangat was pulled grabbed by 1 angry protestor and then another prominent protestor yelled "Fardo" and Mangat was then rushed by a group of people, at that time his face was stomped, his hair was pulled, he was punched in the face and stabbed 3 times.

10) After the protest certain members of the protest went online and boasted about their accomplishments

11) The issue blew up in the media

At the end of the day, based on the above facts which have been verified by protestors who were there to support those who were against Darshan and to speak in support of Dasam Bani , and were disgusted by what they saw, what happened was not justified. The whole purpose of the protest was to stop Darshan from speaking - he was not even at the program - MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. Whatever happened after that was out of hate and ego - not based on Sikh principles. In 84' mobs of hindus attacked Sikhs in Delhi - in mobs - it is easy to attack people in a mob - that is not bravery - any coward can do that. It's sad that the protestors acted as a mob and even worse used a Kirpan on a unarmed man who was not even fighting. A kirpan should never be used - as you can see from what has resulted from this incident.

If the protestors had kept their calm, thought about the big picture, and stopped once they achieved their goal - they would have full support of Toronto Sangat. From those who know the facts, it as almost unanimous that Darshan Ragi is an evil person and Sikh Lehar Centre is up to no good, but that the attack should never have happened and was not justified based on the facts and based on Sikh principles. Its not a question of whether you are against or support Darshan its a question about what happened at the protest and whether is what justified or not.

It is important to note that Darshan Laal, associates, came to the Gurdwara with weapons. It is good to note aswell not to just accept what you want to acccept and then, over look all the other facts. There is an eye witness account of a neutrol person put up here by Sunsingh where he states that Mangat was swearing at the Singhs and provoking them and Mangat associates also provoked the Singhs with their metal rods. This eye witness is a friend with the guys son who got stabbed.

6) An hour before going to Sikh Lehar from Glidden Gurdwara Singhs received notice that Darshan was not going to speak and that the program was cancelled

Can your provide us with a name and where you found this information from, who informed the Singhs that Darshan Laal was not coming anymore an hour before? This just sound like a lie made up and if you repeat a lie enough sooner or later peole start believing it to be true.

[SunSingh]

your description of events is inaccurate b/c you missed a major point. Lehar Centre members had weapons and attacked sangat first. We know this from Prabhjot Singh's firsthand account, and from the below firsthand account.

Harjeet Sahota from facebook:Quote

i was there..it was unfortunate but as an observer one has to remember that the side that got stabbed was not pacify the crowd as the artcle says...the guy was swearing and not letting people into a gurdwara as well his followers had metal rods which they brandished and charged at the people outside with..i am NOT in anyway affliated with any side...I am just telling what i saw...In fact I am friends with the son of the guy who got stabbed but his followers did brandish weapons first

Accounts of the protests in UK also state that they had metal rods in the Gurdwara. These guys were trying to instigate sangat. That doesn't justify what happened, but it is absolutely key and should be made known to the general sangat so that they gain some sort of understanding that it wasn't one-sided like the Lehar members claim.

[GPS]

Sher punjab

Everyone knows that sikh lehar center is a gathering place of kala afghanis.So my statement is not wrong that it is a kala afghana/Darshan lal and Gurnindaks gathering place.

Your post directed at me is just a criticism of mine but does not reveal facts of the situation.

Sun singh has posted the facts that match ragi darshan lal site's claims that Sikh lehar memebers had weapons with them.

Sikh lehar center is not worth to be believed like any other kala afghana outfit.They will say there is no programme of darshan lal and next minute they will hold the programme.That is the reason singhs wanted to go inside and attend their gurudwara.They did not like it and charged at singhs at entry point.

[apnepart2]

http://www.bramptonguardian.com/news/article/661746--sikh-wants-kirpans-banned

The protesters were obviously blind to the deep dug hole that awaited them.

[Only five]

http://www.bramptong...-kirpans-banned

The protesters were obviously blind to the deep dug hole that awaited them.

In order to be a Sikh, you must follow the teachings and it is not a birth right. So by teaching the fact that Bikram Lamba is wanting a ban means he is not a Sikh. Even the Constitution of Canada is more of a Sikh because it believe in freedom of religion.

I forgot to say

Stay in Chardikala!!!!!!!!!

[GPS]

http://www.bramptong...-kirpans-banned

The protesters were obviously blind to the deep dug hole that awaited them.

Lamba is just like some ravidasis iN london who took out a protest march in London after Vienna incident asking ban

on Kirpan.

It is just his personal opinion and does mean that this will happen.Better disregard views of such heretics

[apnepart2]

I was just wondering. Could the protesters have done Ardaas to Maharaj, just as they do before boarding planes that they are going on a protest but are leaving their kirpans behind and ask for forgiveness and then went ahead without the kirpans? They could have done whatever they liked and anti Sikh lobby wouldnt have an issue with kirpaan then.

[GPS]

We should not make assumptions.It is known now that Kala afghanis at center were armed with rods and sticks.

They did not allow sangat to enter gurudwara and attcked first.So let us alow law enforcement agencies to determine what

happened.

Let us lay this to rest till then.

[Gurmat Sangeet]

aapne singh ehmi kacheria'ch batt pai jande a :rolleyes:

[harjits4]

http://www.bramptong...-kirpans-banned

The protesters were obviously blind to the deep dug hole that awaited them.

Lamba is just like some ravidasis iN london who took out a protest march in London after Vienna incident asking ban

on Kirpan.

It is just his personal opinion and does mean that this will happen.Better disregard views of such heretics

I enquired from my contact in Canada.

Lamba is not like Ravidassi. He is a jatt sikh and will be Governer General soon and he strongly believes that knives worn by Sikhs should be BANNED. They will be very soon banned. A knife is a knife is a knife. People who argue that one can kill with a bat also forget that 99% of people play with bats while 99% of people kill with knives.

Lamba, very rightly said that knives have no place in today's civil society. Only uncivilized people carry such weapons and use them. I also learnt that that Sukhwant Singh when he went to court, there was not even a single sikh to support him in the court and <banned word filter activated> didn't get bail also. Knife carrying criminals should be treated as criminals. Because of this mess in Toronto, in New York also, sikhs started getting catcalls.

Go to www.thestar.ca and search word "Sikh" and you will see glowing stories about Gobind Singh and obscenities he uttered in Dasam Granth. Read the comments from readers about banning the religious knife and you would know why Sikhs are the second most hated community in Canada. This is happening in largest newspaper of Canada. Way to go guys !

Admin Note: You are officially Banned from this forum. Attacking Amritdhari lifestyle & supporting anti-kirpan movement by anti-sikh elements are not allowed. You had 3 previous warnings.