Attack Renews Sikh Dagger Debate

[gaganji]

This is all the doing of Ragi D and Co.

First they try and strip us of the Bir Rass spirit of Dasmesh Pita's Bani.

Then they provoke us by using the most vile language to slander Guru Ji's Bani in order to get such a reaction, which in turn will now cause the debate that this article refers to.

If successful, they will have then stripped us of one of the Panj Kakkars, thus further emasculating Guru's Khalsa.

I have no doubts that this is their devious plan.

The only way is to fight back and rebuke their lies. Draw media attention to what the truth is, and how they are the ones that are going against the tenets of Sikhism.

Doesn't he say he believes in SGPC Sikh Rehat Maryada? 5K's are panthic parvaan, he's not against that.

I just think we need a better way to resolve our differences. Cause others are talking and they say Sikh's shouldn't be given the right to carry a kirpan (http://www.thestar.c.../article/791380), I don't agree with that. It's a few that went over the line.

But if we show this kinda stuff to the public then we have no base to our argument. Right?

How can we solve this argument without violence and ruining our image? Any ideas, I think we can find another way.

[SunSingh]

Protests should be peaceful. And the panthic singhs protesting should appoint one of their number who is articulate to discuss with the media. Otherwise we end up with very bias news reports due to nobody being left at the scene to talk to the media except for propagandaists.

[gaganji]

Protests should be peaceful. And the panthic singhs protesting should appoint one of their number who is articulate to discuss with the media. Otherwise we end up with very bias news reports due to nobody being left at the scene to talk to the media except for propagandaists.

So, if protests are held, we should tell those who are organizing it to have one person who knows the points they are protesting for, to speak to the organizers of the kirtan programmes. Then they (those who are protesting) should speak to Darshan Singh, and tell him what they feel and why.

Then we can take it from there...

That way, the protesters can get their points across. To the public, the image of Sikh's is kept stron, peaceful and smart people, where we talk about our differences and what can be done where compromises are reached.

I say the next time a protest is taking place, the points veerji (SunSingh) outlined are a good start. We as Sikh's will come together to talk about our differences and still have a good image in the public eye.

In fact, maybe even a better one, since they see us talking about our problems. We should then have reporters talk about both sides of the story and tell the public that Sikh's are reaching compromises.

Gur Fateh ji!

[gaganji]

I believe this article did it's job. Which was to present propaganda and get peoples emotions running high. Does it anywhere in the news article say anything about politians or member of Parliament, is debating Kirpans now?

Why get all emotional for nothing. Before they can even ban Kirpans, Canadians need to re-think if alchohol should be legal. Does the wider public know how many deaths are caused because of alcohol in a year? Does anyone know that alcohol is a gateway drug to harder drugs like cocaine, herion, acid, crack, etc, etc. Same goes for smoking cigarettes. It is completely ridiculous that people are being influenced by this propaganda article. More education is needed here to understand it all.

At the age of 18 I can register for a gun license and buy one and be one of the biggest id.oit in the world. The government is willing to give me a gun that can kill a dozen in 2 seconds, but I can't carry a kirpan that is carried by a person that has total respect for it and will think twice before using it and in self-defense. When I say id.iot, I mean his is at the top of his class, he's racist, narrow minded in everyway possible, unable to control his temper, and has the shortest fuse.

This in the past was not about what is rational and how to keep the public safe, but how easily idiots in this country can be influenced by propaganda. Take alcohol, majority of the people drink it, and this means selfish behaviour on the majority allows it to be legal. If majority did not use it and were not addicted to it and were told the stats of how harmful alcohol is, in a split second these id.iots will be up in arms yelling at the government to make it illegal. When a person commits an offense the majority of the time it is because they were on alcohol, not because of weed, herion, etc.

It has been proven that marijuna is a safer drug and is highly unlikely to cause crime than alcohol, but yet we have alcohol legalized. Any people that use, sell marijuana are being stripped of their rights and being thrown in jail.

It is because Sikhs are a minority in this country that the government gets away with fooling us and is able to ban something that causes harm once in a decade.

If the government can't tax it then it is illegal. Why don't they ban alcohol, it's because the Canadian government collects truck loads and truck loads of tax from it every week. Do they care about public safety for even one second? HELL NO!! All these government programs that we enjoy so much are at the expensive of people drinking alcohol and smoking cigarettes and destroying their lives.

So before even tackling such issues as kirpans, which happen once or max twice a decade, we Canadians need to look at how to control alcohol uses better and not profit of others addictions.

And why not ban a knife in general. That kitchen knife, which your mom uses to chop off vegetables is also deadly as any other knife out there. Here is the reasoning behind it to be legal. How man times has a kitchen knife been used in a murder or stabbing and we need them to cut stuff in the kitchen. And if you want to see the same reasoning in kirpan terms, here it is

How many times has the kirpan been used in a murder or stabbing and we need kirpans because Kirpans are apart of Sikhs daily life, just like eating. Freedom of religion is part of living in Canada.

And if you look at the stats on kitchen knifes and murders or stabbing, I bet they are much higher than Kirpans and yet no one makes a big deal out of it when this type of crime happens and these knifes are sold at Wal-mart, hell even a dollar store and the wider public has access to it.

All this kirpan banning is a big joke and as Sikhs we should know better than to fall for propaganda news articles.

I agree, I'm sure the stats on non-kirpan involved violence is MUCH higher. Then maybe we should educate those who think banning the kirpan is right. We could give them stats of what the differences are.

Honestly though, to outsiders, they don't know our values - they don't understand it, cause they're not Sikh. We need to show them hard facts of why it's just not fair to say that due to a couple of incidents that banning the kirpan makes any sense.

I mean look at france and denmark, they banned it there (it can be done). So we need to advocate that in fact, due to a couple of incidents, and the range of other "knife" involved violence, the value to a Sikh of the kirpan condemns the use of it for violence against others. In fact, there are other "knife" involved incidents that should be looked at - let the Sikh's work on re-educating those Sikh's who have abused the kirpan's use and meaning.

Gur Fateh ji!

[gaganji]

The damage is Done. I dont think it will get banned and i hope i am not wrong.

I don't believe it will get banned veerji. Though, with this event we have poked a small hole in our image. We need to advocate to the public, as Manjit Singh has:

But Mangat, who also wears a kirpan, says this abuse of the dagger should not be used against the religion. "These people have used religious emotions and symbols to attack others. It does not mean all Sikhs are violent."

http://www.thestar.c...tarticle/791293

With guru's kirpa we will learn from this...

Gur Fateh ji!

p.s. okay, i'm going to stop talking now. i've posed my opinion. chardi kala!

[GPS]

If Mangat has interest of sikh community at heart he should not invite an excommunicated person to his center.

He should not invite Ragi darshan lal who is on record for abusing bani of khalsa.

He should not promote kala afgahnaism which in essence is sugar coated poison and anti religion.

If he wants ragi to come and abuse sikh scriptures then he should form a separate sect like nirankaris.

gagan ji writes

Doesn't he say he believes in SGPC Sikh Rehat Maryada? 5K's are panthic parvaan, he's not against that.

This akirtghan ragi has two tongues.he uses them to convey different and contradictory messages.

He does not obey sikh rehat marayda. He says there is no proof that five banis were read in 1699.

Whom are you fooling here, gagan ji. The real face of ragi is in front of all of us.

Protests should be peaceful. And the panthic singhs protesting should appoint one of their number who is articulate to discuss with the media. Otherwise we end up with very bias news reports due to nobody being left at the scene to talk to the media except for propagandaists.

So, if protests are held, we should tell those who are organizing it to have one person who knows the points they are protesting for, to speak to the organizers of the kirtan programmes. Then they (those who are protesting) should speak to Darshan Singh, and tell him what they feel and why.

Then we can take it from there...

That way, the protesters can get their points across. To the public, the image of Sikh's is kept stron, peaceful and smart people, where we talk about our differences and what can be done where compromises are reached.

I say the next time a protest is taking place, the points veerji (SunSingh) outlined are a good start. We as Sikh's will come together to talk about our differences and still have a good image in the public eye.

In fact, maybe even a better one, since they see us talking about our problems. We should then have reporters talk about both sides of the story and tell the public that Sikh's are reaching compromises.

Gur Fateh ji!

Protests are held ebcause ragi abuses bani of dasam pita, ridicules sikh rehat maryada, disowns sikh ardas and condemns Nitnem banis.

That is the reason protests are held. Don't you know that yet? You are aware why protests are held.

Ragi is also making indirect statements casting doubts on banis of Sri guru Granth sahib ji.

[gaganji]

If Mangat has interest of sikh community at heart he should not invite an excommunicated person to his center.

He should not invite Ragi darshan lal who is on record for abusing bani of khalsa.

He should not promote kala afgahnaism which in essence is sugar coated poison and anti religion.

If he wants ragi to come and abuse sikh scriptures then he should form a separate sect like nirankaris.

(...deleted as it was really long...)

Protests are held ebcause ragi abuses bani of dasam pita, ridicules sikh rehat maryada, disowns sikh ardas and condemns Nitnem banis.

That is the reason protests are held. Don't you know that yet? You are aware why protests are held.

Ragi is also making indirect statements casting doubts on banis of Sri guru Granth sahib ji.

Gur Fateh veerji,

My point was to ask how to solve this problem, not what the sangat's stand is (that's been done to death).

I know what the reasons are for the protest, my point is different. My point was how to do it differently. The way that it was done recently was not within the law, nor Sikhi principles (e.g. vichar, nimritha, etc.)

You obviously want him to stop and I understand that. But that is not the point, because there are many stands on the matter and that will never end since everyone has a say (e.g. Panth - millions of Sikhs - many have their own views).

We as Sikh's need to solve it, not break its head or stab it, right?.

It's the 21^st century veerji, violence or harsh words doesn't cut it anymore; since, people use to solve their problems by fighting, but our guru's taught is vichar they taught us a different way .

Gur Fateh ji!

[GPS]

gagan ji

You are quite an expert at propaganda.You wrote Ragi darshan obeys sikh rehat marayda

Here is a link that proves that he does not.In this video he is creating doubts about banis of amrit sanchar and nitnem

http://patshahi10.or...0org&Itemid=138

Finally do not cook up your own storiand deliver sermons about good conduct.As already written the incident at kala

center is under investigation.No one knows who was responsible for violence especially when Darshan lal website wrote that Mangat and his men had broken skull of of some protesters.

Let us wait for police to conclude their findings.

[gaganji]

gagan ji

You are quite an expert at propaganda.You wrote Ragi darshan obeys sikh rehat marayda

Here is a link that proves that he does not.In this video he is creating doubts about banis of amrit sanchar and nitnem

http://patshahi10.or...0org&Itemid=138

Finally do not cook up your own storiand deliver sermons about good conduct.As already written the incident at kala

center is under investigation.No one knows who was responsible for violence especially when Darshan lal website wrote that Mangat and his men had broken skull of of some protesters.

Let us wait for police to conclude their findings.

Alrighty, I'm not going to try to talk about how to fix the problem anymore, it seems GPS veerji doesn't want to talk about alternative solutions to violence and harsh words within the community.

I'm out.. Guru kirpa one day we look forward to the solution and not how to hurt other's (brothers and sisters), physically and mentally - I'm quite hurt .

Gur Fateh ji.

damn don't know who are the bigger idiots the tea party in america or these guys (and im talking about both sides)

I agree ji. I have many times seen the parallel:

Gur Fateh ji!

[GPS]

Alrighty, I'm not going to try to talk about how to fix the problem anymore, it seems GPS veerji doesn't want to talk about alternative solutions to violence and harsh words within the community.

What alterantive solutions we are talking here? The fact is that Ragi darshan is excommunicated for making blasphemous comments against Guru Gobind singh ji.He is barred by akal takhat not to hold his hate spewing sessions in gurudwaras.Still one Gurudawra in toronto selects to invite him.Sikhs go there for protest and are not allowed inside.Scuffle broke out and one person is injured.

Question is why such situations are created by Ragi followers? No one is condoning violenec here. Can ragi followers learn to behave having some civic sense.

Most important is for ragi to learn to behave.he has been making his living reading dasam bani all his life.Now this traitor is abusing that bani.Not believing in Bani is one thing but to ridicule it is another. no law of land permits it.