1984 Operation Blue Star

[sskhalsa]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

I showed my father the 9 minute video on Khalsa.TV regarding 1984, and he expressed some views on it which I would like to have confirmed or abjured.

1. One interesting point he brought up was that Sant Bhindrawale had hired the "gundas" or mob/mafia like people to kill others. These gundas grew their dharis out, and if someone talked against the Khalistan movement, or the like, he would order them to kill the people who talked against it. Is this true?

2. Also, my father asked the question that if Khalistan was formed who would have gone there considering their position in already stable countries? (sidenote: if Khalistan was formed today, how many of you would actually leave your home, jobs, etc, and move to Khalistan?)

3. In addition, my father stated that most support and financial aid was coming from foreign places and many Sikhs in India were not full supporters of the movement. Is this true

4. My father related how Sant Bhindrawale advocated that people should carry guns, swords, at all times....isnt it obvious that this, in the eyes of the world, both violent and militaristic?

Please, do not misinterpret my questions as AGAINST Khalistan and Sant Bhindrawale.

As my father was in America during this time, he is not a True Gursikh, and i am a moorakh, I wish to hear the sangat's views on this matter. Please do not answer in overbearing tones!! im ignorant !

style='font-family:GurbaniWebThick'>vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

"1. One interesting point he brought up was that Sant Bhindrawale had hired the "gundas" or mob/mafia like people to kill others. These gundas grew their dharis out, and if someone talked against the Khalistan movement, or the like, he would order them to kill the people who talked against it. Is this true?"

Sant Jarnail Singh Ji was charged by the Government on various crimes. He went to trial and was acquitted. If he had indeed hired Gundas, then he would have been jailed for murder. To this day, no conclusive evidence has been given linking Sant Ji to any murders. Sant Ji himself never actually said that he was fighting for Khalistan. In his speeches, he never said he supported Khalistan (in fact, he said he was neither in support of it or against it. However, he said if the government would give them Khalistan, the Sikhs should readily accept it).

"2. Also, my father asked the question that if Khalistan was formed who would have gone there considering their position in already stable countries? (sidenote: if Khalistan was formed today, how many of you would actually leave your home, jobs, etc, and move to Khalistan?)"

You may take the example of the Jews. When Israel was created, Jews from all parts of the world left everything behind to go to Israel to be united and with their people. To say that nobody would move is proven incorrect by this precedent.

"3. In addition, my father stated that most support and financial aid was coming from foreign places and many Sikhs in India were not full supporters of the movement. "

Define many. Every Sikh at the time felt that the government was oppres

sing the Sikhs and not treating them equal as everyone else. They all noted with much grief and anger the atocities committed by the government. There was hardly any Sikh at the time that was not affected by 1984 and its aftermath. Did every Sikh support Khalistan? No. However, ever Sikh recognized that India was treating them very unfairly and something had to be done.

"4. My father related how Sant Bhindrawale advocated that people should carry guns, swords, at all times....isnt it obvious that this, in the eyes of the world, both violent and militaristic?"

First, a Sikh hardly cares what the world thinks of them. Second, it is the religious duty of Sikhs to carry weaponry, the minimum being the Kirpan. Sikhs, since the creation of the Khalsa (and many before then), were armed with guns, bows & arrows, swords. It is the image of the Khalsa to be a Saint-Soldier. That is what the Guru Sahiban made the Sikhs. Are the Sikhs militaristic? Yes. Are they violent? Sikhs desire peace a lot, hence the Ardaas asks the Almighty for "Sarbat Da Bhalla". However, administrations have not let the Sikhs live in peace, so to defend themselves and others who cannot defend themselves, the Sikhs have used their God-given duty to fight against such oppression.

Hope that helps.

[smartsingh24]

Great response ms514

[s s Jhamka]

vaheguru ji ka khalsa

vaheguru ji ki fateh

sandeep singh ji said:

1. One interesting point he brought up was that Sant Bhindrawale had hired the "gundas" or mob/mafia like people to kill others. These gundas grew their dharis out, and if someone talked against the Khalistan movement, or the like, he would order them to kill the people who talked against it. Is this true?

1

Its sad when ppl keep falling for the same lies that were said about Santji in the 80s, my parent are one example. They have neither taken time out to listen to Santjis speeches or have they any link with the movement. But once they saw myself change from a tear away teenager to some1 who started to practice sikhi and be committed to the goals off the singhs they changed. They are totally committed to what Santji stood for. Yes they are scared for their son but who’s parents are not. The crap that ppl still believe about Santji 20 years on is amazing. All we can do is to educate them and be good Sikhs ourselves and they will understand what a great person Santji was. Sabtji did not need to hire ppl nor did he kill innocent ppl. Yes the singhs did not spare anyone who committed abuses on Sikhi or the Sikhs. Like DSP bachana who the singhs killed, because he tortured Bhai Amrik Singh ji, countless others too paid the price off committing heinous crimes on the Sikhs and will do in the future.

2. Also, my father asked the question that if Khalistan was formed who would have gone there considering their position in already stable countries? (sidenote: if Khalistan was formed today, how many of you would actually leave your home, jobs, etc, and move to Khalistan?

)

2. Khalsa Raaj (Khalistan) was fought by the Sikhs in hindia, they

Gave their blood for it who are we to take away their dream. Its not about me or u, when Guruji gives us the kirpa Khalsa Raaj will be made. When we get khalsa raaj we will find out how many off us will go there to live, but when we get it at least we will able to sleep at night knowing our brothers and sistas are safe and sound, not hounded by the army or police.

3. In addition, my father stated that most support and financial aid was coming from foreign places and many Sikhs in India were not full supporters of the movement. Is this true

3. Yes the money came from abroad as the Sikhs in India could barely feed themselves and its our duty to help out our brothers and sista. Don’t the Sikhs living abroad send money to their relatives so they can buy more land, tractors etc??? over 250,000 sikhs got shaheed in hindia and over 300,000 where there at the Sarbat Khalsa 26th Jan 1986 where they passed the Gurmatta of all out war on hindia and the deceleration of Khalistan so yes the Sikhs did want their freedom. A revolution is only fought by 2% off the population, just look at the battle of Chamkur their was only 40 left with Guruji, but Guruji didn’t give up and say the majority are not with us so we should not carry on the struggle against oppression and injustice.

4. My father related how Sant Bhindrawale advocated that people should carry guns, swords, at all times....isnt it obvious that this, in the eyes of the world, both violent and militaristic?

4. Santji only advocated what Guruji’s hukam was

“was to bear and carry arms. Do not come before me with out arms or kesh.”

Just look at the world powers they display their weapons on parades, why should we be shy and weak. We are Sant/Saphis, yes to kill innocents or to scare the weak is a sin, but a bigger sin is to have arms and not defend the weak and not to get justice for ur community.Veerji hope I dnt offend u

. am no scholar, just say it from the heart.

Hope it was useful

Take care

sukdev

[SSB]

s s Jhamka u rock i always get that from some of my family he drinkl and eat meat :wub: . I also hav a another question people say is ' the police came to their house killed the whole family it so scary' ik know this was true but they use this and say we should stop takin bout the nations neeed khalistan and jus get a goood job and keep your family happy. ALso they say after somone was a shaheed no one looked after his children they live onm the streets wat if that happened to ypu. I am very stuck on these to welll not questoin but 'talk'

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

"' the police came to their house killed the whole family it so scary' ik know this was true but they use this and say we should stop takin bout the nations neeed khalistan and jus get a goood job and keep your family happy. Also they say after somone was a shaheed no one looked after his children they live onm the streets wat if that happened to you. I am very stuck on these to welll not questoin but 'talk' "

Jewish poem about the holocaust (my paraphrase...don't remember the exact words):

When they came for the fruit vendor, I did not say anything.

When they came for the butcher, I did not say anything.

When they came for my neighbor, I did not say anything.

Then they came for me. Who is left to say anything for me?

All this eventually did affect innocent Sikhs who had no objective but to make money and live in peace with their families. That is why they say that Sant Ji woke a sleeping Panth up. Every person in the Panth must at least realize what happened and understand that there are elements in Indian society that do not want Sikhs to survive. If the Sikhs do at least this much and not go back to sleep, then that would still be plenty.

Think about it. Were the people attacked in the Riots of November 1984 all hardcore Khalistanis? Nope...just average Sikhs trying to make a living. How about the ones in Punjab? The same. Sikhs would love nothing better than to live in peace and harmony, but that has not been allowed. So when people say that they simply will make money and raise their families, they are making themselves into sheep...who shall eventually be slaughtered (if not them, then their

future generations). Always be aware of what is going on and trust nothing that any government promises or says to you.

[smartsingh24]

This is why people need to stop worrying about themselves, and start worrying about the greater good. If there's one thing I learned from my dad, ultra trekkie, it's the semi-final words of spock at the end of the second star trek movie-"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"

[sskhalsa]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

You guys rock! thanks for the input, im gonna tell my dad right away

SikhSangat.com 4 life

:wub:

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!