Guru Ka Langar

[guptkuri]

please feel free to delete this post, maybe i am not ready to comment on this issue yet. i am sorry for any hurt feelings

[Mehtab Singh]

Once again, guptkuri, very well written indeed. But this story about Gurujee eating at the house of Bhai Lalo has been used as a tool and put forward many times to disprove GurSikhs (or as some would like to label "AKJs") and mock their strict eating habits (Bibek or Sarabloh Bibek) of eating only from Amritdharis, and eating only in Sarabloh utensils. I know guptkuri didn't intend to do so, but for the sake of those who may post later on, I am going to say what you are going to read. First of all, I confess I am not as strong yet myself to be able to keep as much Bibek as I want to. However, I adore GurSikhs who do, while some who claim that such "bahmanvaad" isn't part of Sikhi because their "version" of Sikhi is way too liberal. So much so that sometimes even matha tek is like a ritual to them. I choose to admit my own weakness rather than call those Bibeki GurSikhs as incorrect.

Lets say 5 men are sitting and there is a Sarabloh baataa in front of them. It has water and sugar pataashay in the water. Each one of the 5 men takes a Sarabloh Khanda and mixes the pataashay and water inside the baataa while reciting a Bani. This way, each of the 5 men recite 1 Bani each, thereby reciting the 5 Amrit Banis. Now note that I said men, not Singhs. What if all 5 are cleanshaven? Will you accept that Guru's Amrit has been prepared? No! Never! Thus, anything that we call "Guru da" or "Guru di", it is done by Guru vaalay, meaning Amritdhari GurSikhs. Whether its Guru ka langar or karah parshad, if its not prepared by Guru vaalay Amritdhari GurSikhs, how can you call it Guru ka langar or parshad? I admit that the local Gurdwara I go to has both langar and parshad prepared by non-Amritdharis (like 99% of Gurdwaare in USA/Canada). However, I want to explain the logic behind Bibek so that uninformed people don't label it as "bahmanvaad". Correct me if I am wrong, but I think at Siri Darbar Sahib only Amritdhari GurSikhs prepare langar.

For the anti-AKJ crew on this forum, don't worry if you can't understand what I said. Read more here: http://www.tapoban.org/langar.html and please do Ardas that those who wish to be Bibeki some day (like this fool Mehtab Singh) can do so by Gurujee's kirpa.

bhul chukk maaf if what I said is hard to digest

I am still learning and trying to get "there"

[guptkuri]

please feel free to delete this post, maybe i am not ready to comment on this issue yet. i am sorry for any hurt feelings

[Paneer Monster]

Vgjkkvgjkf

Guptkuri ji i must commend you on your hearty topics which you have clearly put a lot of thought and effort into – good job. In particular, I do like this thread and your previous rakhri thread.

Unfortunately, i was one of those people you described who did not partake in langar (only in gurduare in western places) because of it was not prepared by amritdharis etc..

However, i now (sometimes not always) partake in langar because i realised

1 – food such as bread etc is prepared in factories yet i still eat it, although this is not langar it is still food that i consume.

2 – you correctly mentioned aardas is offered. Aardas is very sacred it would be foolish for a Sikh to overlook this.

3 – the langar itself comes from the holy place of Guru ji’s Ghar.

On the other hand, i must say more effort should be made to have langar prepared by gursikh sevaks (unpaid). I do believe all Guruduare across the uk and else where should ban caterers proving langar for events such as weddings, least because there have been a few incidences of caterers providing foods containing egg etc. Also at times particularly at Gurpurabs, vaiskahi and bandi shhor diwas there are sweets being distributed in and around the Gurdwara which sometimes contain animal products such a fats and gelatine.

Mehtab veerji i do agree with some of your points, in particular that guru ka langar should be prepared by amritdhari gursikhs. However, I must object to you drawing comparisons of langar to amrit daan. They both serve totally different purposes. Also, if it was incorrect to call langar (not prepared by amritdharis) Guru ka langar, should we stop calling Gurduars built by non sikhs, Guru Duar? No. Guru Jis sacred presence and the sacred aardas (amogst other things) totally change an ordinary building into a holy place and an ordinary meal into a holy meal. Don’t get me wrong, I fully agree that langar should be prepared by Gurmukhs but at the same time i now think its wrong to doubt that langar is anything less then sacred. Even normal food is sacred and is given to us by Satguru ji.

plz bhul chuk maaf

vgjkkvgjkf

[hkaurP]

I am having trouble finding the problem with Non Amritdhari's preparing langar. I find this to be a very foolish reason to not eat Guru Ka Langar. Why does it matter who langar was prepared by? Through Ardas and Bhogh it becomes Guru Ji's langar. So regardless of who prepares it, it was still cooked in Guru Ji's Kitchen under Guru Ji's shelter. Then what is the problem? I have seen many Hindu's preparing langar, doing path, singing Kirtan and partaking in the congregation, they do it out of love and respect. I have also seen "Mona" Sikhs preparing langar with the same shrada as an Amritdhari Sikh.

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੁਰਕ ਕੋਊ ਰਾਫਜੀ ਇਮਾਮ ਸਾਫੀ ਮਾਨਸ ਕੀ ਜਾਤ ਸਬੈ ਏਕੈ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਬੋ ॥

Hindoo Turak kooo Raaphjoo Imaam Saaphoo, maanas koo jaat sahi ekai paithchaanbo||

Someone is Hindu and someone a Muslim, then someone is Shia, and someone a Sunni, but all the human beings, as a species, are recognized as one and the same.

Pg 51

ਏਕੈ ਨੈਨ ਏਕੈ ਕਾਨ ਏਕੈ ਦੇਹ ਏਕੈ ਬਾਨ ਖਾਕ ਬਾਦ ਆਤਸ ਔ ਆਬ ਕੋ ਰਲਾਉ ਹੈ ॥

Ekai nain ekai kn ekai deh ekai baan, khaak baad aatas au aab ko ralaao hai||

The eyes are the same, the ears the same, the bodies are the same and the habits are the same, all the creation is the amalgam of earth, air, fire and water.

Pg 51

Amrit Cannot be prepared by a non Amritdhari. But Langar is for the common people. Its a free kitchen for all no matter how rich or poor, what color, what caste, or what religion they belong to. Then we shouldn't exclude "Non Amritdharis" from being able to do this seva. If they are not Amritdhari then they dont become any less of a person than an Amritdhari. If someone thinks that, then its Pure Ego.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

[Paneer Monster]

it is not an ego thing.its not about amritdharis being superior - no one have said that. langar should not be prepared by people devoid of faith or poeple who follow pointless rituals or people that do not follow (or even believe in) gurmat.

whilst were on the subject ill quickly mention 2 things

1 one of the reasons why dhan panj pyare should be healthy practicing gurmukhs, learned in gurbani, not lazy, free from thieves and full of nidhaan etc etc is because during amrit sanchaar we get their attributes (i heard his in katha at gurughar and also i think baba johinder singh ji has said the same thing). also at the time of amrit sanchaar often the singhs and kaurs are told not to eat from people that take any types of nasha or that are guruless. (i cant speak for every amrit sanchaar but this hukam is often given)

2 i know many are against nanaksar, but on an occasion, a woman was going to prepare langar in cov, sant baba mihan singh jee (nanaksar) stoped her and asked her what she was doing. she explained she was going to prepare langar. baba ji said 1 hr ago u was making chicken for your husband (baba ji knew), and now with the same hands u want to feed the sadh sangat? at this, the bibi instead did shoe seva and vowed never to touch meat again. i dont want to name this bibi but many will already know who she is.

i vaguely remember sant baba thakar singh ji (taksal) expressing (somewhere in the midlands) that women should not wear nailpolish and dye their hair - i dont know if this story is langar related ..... perhaps someone can clarify the incident that had taken place.

I also remembered, guru gobind singh ji maharaj gave hukam that langar must be distributed equally. Therefore dedicated gurmukhs who obay satguru jis hukam should prepare langar as they are more likely to follow guru sahibs hukam. Please note: i personally understand this is not always possible / ideal due to the limited number of gursikhs in particular areas and their personal commitments.

This is why (in my opinion) langar should be (at least predominantly) prepared by Gursikhs.

Bhul chuk maaf

vgjkkvgjkf

[Mehtab Singh]

I must object to you drawing comparisons of langar to amrit daan. They both serve totally different purposes. Also, if it was incorrect to call langar (not prepared by amritdharis) Guru ka langar, should we stop calling Gurduars built by non sikhs, Guru Duar? No. Guru Jis sacred presence and the sacred aardas (amogst other things) totally change an ordinary building into a holy place and an ordinary meal into a holy meal. Don't get me wrong, I fully agree that langar should be prepared by Gurmukhs but at the same time i now think its wrong to doubt that langar is anything less then sacred. Even normal food is sacred and is given to us by Satguru ji.

Veerjee I grew up going to a Gurdwara in Dubai thats made and run by Sindhi Hindus. They have pictures of Hindu gods and goddesses and their own saints (most cleanshaven) all over the walls. My own Punjabi Hindu relatives who visited from Punjab were in shock and said this is more like a mandir and doesn't even feel like a Gurdwara. When they visited another one thats managed by Amritdhari GurSikhs, they said "now this feels like Punjab". Veerjee this was when I was myself a Hindu and had no idea about Sikhi, and back then itself I realized the difference. Its not about inferior/superior, its about the difference. We already have an example of a Gurdwara committee in Rochester, New York that is headed by monnay and has banned kirpans. I personally agree with you that Gurujee's presence is enough to turn any place into more than heaven, any person into more than an angel, no questions about it. Gurujee loves everyone, no doubt about that either. I am also not questioning the sanctity of langar prepared by non-Amritdharis as thats what I myself have every week. The only point is requesting fellow Sikhs to realize/understand that in Sikhi we are to live by a certain standard. It is absolutely alright if we are trying to get there and working on it. But to label a rehet as outrightly unwanted just because we can't follow it out of our convenient thinking is incorrect. Its better to choose to work on it instead.

I am having trouble finding the problem with Non Amritdhari's preparing langar. I find this to be a very foolish reason to not eat Guru Ka Langar. Why does it matter who langar was prepared by? Through Ardas and Bhogh it becomes Guru Ji's langar. So regardless of who prepares it, it was still cooked in Guru Ji's Kitchen under Guru Ji's shelter. Then what is the problem? I have seen many Hindu's preparing langar, doing path, singing Kirtan and partaking in the congregation, they do it out of love and respect. I have also seen "Mona" Sikhs preparing langar with the same shrada as an Amritdhari Sikh.

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੁਰਕ ਕੋਊ ਰਾਫਜੀ ਇਮਾਮ ਸਾਫੀ ਮਾਨਸ ਕੀ ਜਾਤ ਸਬੈ ਏਕੈ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਬੋ ॥

Hindoo Turak kooo Raaphjoo Imaam Saaphoo, maanas koo jaat sahi ekai paithchaanbo||

Someone is Hindu and someone a Muslim, then someone is Shia, and someone a Sunni, but all the human beings, as a species, are recognized as one and the same.

Pg 51

ਏਕੈ ਨੈਨ ਏਕੈ ਕਾਨ ਏਕੈ ਦੇਹ ਏਕੈ ਬਾਨ ਖਾਕ ਬਾਦ ਆਤਸ ਔ ਆਬ ਕੋ ਰਲਾਉ ਹੈ ॥

Ekai nain ekai kn ekai deh ekai baan, khaak baad aatas au aab ko ralaao hai||

The eyes are the same, the ears the same, the bodies are the same and the habits are the same, all the creation is the amalgam of earth, air, fire and water.

Pg 51

Amrit Cannot be prepared by a non Amritdhari. But Langar is for the common people. Its a free kitchen for all no matter how rich or poor, what color, what caste, or what religion they belong to. Then we shouldn't exclude "Non Amritdharis" from being able to do this seva. If they are not Amritdhari then they dont become any less of a person than an Amritdhari. If someone thinks that, then its Pure Ego.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

With all due respect sister, whatever you've stated is purely your own opinion. Like I said in my post, this rehet has been practised for a long time by Gurmukhs. Did you read the link to the article I posted? It answers all your questions. The Gurbani tuks you posted are talking about all humans being equal. Who said we aren't? Its not ego, its a rehet. Why did Gurujee say "rehet pyaari mujhko Sikh pyaara naahi"? Gurujee Himself loves the rehet of a Sikh more than the Sikh himself/herself. Yes langar can be prepared by non-Amritdharis and I myself eat that always because very rarely is it prepared only by GurSikhs. But then how do we call it Guru ka langar?Why have different rules for different things? Bhai Sahib Bhai Randhir Singh Jee was a strict Bibeki who observed Sarabloh Bibek even in jail for 17 years. I don't think I'd ever go as far as calling him foolish. You may have seen Hindus and monnay preparing langar but just because it happens doesn't mean its right. I have seen monnay taste langar while preparing it to make sure it tastes good. I hated the sight of it. Please read the link I posted. Now even Hindus and Westerners believe that the thoughts running in one's mind while preparing food have a subtle effect on the food which in turn has a subtle effect on the mind. I leave the choice to the readers. You want to consume food prepared by Amritdhari GurSikhs reciting Naam/Bani or by others who probably smoke and are singing pop songs while preparing food/langar? Yes its all about love in Sikhi, no doubt. But true love is where you are ready to pay any price for it. Amritdharis are NOT superior, they're just committed to the point of being ready to pay any price. Bhenjee, I have seen several examples of people with this "love and shardha" dare to do a lot of stupid things which irritates the life out of me. They come to Gurujee's taabeya with socks on, if you object, "oh come on, so what, its all about love". They run around in the langar kitchen bare-headed, if you object, "oh come on, so what, its all about love". They even sit in the langar gall bare-headed and eat langar, f you object, "oh come on, so what, its all about love". They start eating before the jakaara, if you object, "oh come on, so what, its all about love". Sorry, this is not love, its slacking to make life more convenient. Bhenjee such people disrespect the very core of Sikh maryada and call it as rituals.

it is not an ego thing.its not about amritdharis being superior - no one have said that. langar should not be prepared by people devoid of faith or poeple who follow pointless rituals or people that do not follow (or even believe in) gurmat.

whilst were on the subject ill quickly mention 2 things

1 one of the reasons why dhan panj pyare should be healthy practicing gurmukhs, learned in gurbani, not lazy, free from thieves and full of nidhaan etc etc is because during amrit sanchaar we get their attributes (i heard his in katha at gurughar and also i think baba johinder singh ji has said the same thing). also at the time of amrit sanchaar often the singhs and kaurs are told not to eat from people that take any types of nasha or that are guruless. (i cant speak for every amrit sanchaar but this hukam is often given)

2 i know many are against nanaksar, but on an occasion, a woman was going to prepare langar in cov, sant baba mihan singh jee (nanaksar) stoped her and asked her what she was doing. she explained she was going to prepare langar. baba ji said 1 hr ago u was making chicken for your husband (baba ji knew), and now with the same hands u want to feed the sadh sangat? at this, the bibi instead did shoe seva and vowed never to touch meat again. i dont want to name this bibi but many will already know who she is.

i vaguely remember sant baba thakar singh ji (taksal) expressing (somewhere in the midlands) that women should not wear nailpolish and dye their hair - i dont know if this story is langar related ..... perhaps someone can clarify the incident that had taken place.

I also remembered, guru gobind singh ji maharaj gave hukam that langar must be distributed equally. Therefore dedicated gurmukhs who obay satguru jis hukam should prepare langar as they are more likely to follow guru sahibs hukam. Please note: i personally understand this is not always possible / ideal due to the limited number of gursikhs in particular areas and their personal commitments.

This is why (in my opinion) langar should be (at least predominantly) prepared by Gursikhs.

Good points veerjee, thanks for sharing.

Please forgive anything that may be offensive as I would never want to push someone away from Sikhi. I am sorry, but living Sikhi is to live how your Guru wants you to live, not how you choose to. Please do Ardas that those who wish to be Bibeki some day (like this fool Mehtab Singh) can do so by Gurujee's kirpa. I am no one to judge anyone as at this point I am myself unable to keep the amount of Bibek I wish to. However, lets not mock/judge a rehet that Gurmukh pyaare have been observing for ages just because we are not prepared to abide by it. I used to think exactly the way what others have posted above, and thats fine. Everyone is most welcome to have an opinion and share it. I repeat, I choose to admit my own weakness rather than call those Bibeki GurSikhs as incorrect. No one saying at all that Amritdharis are better/superior. There have been a number of Gurmukhs who may not have been Bibeki, and I am never going to judge them as I am not even close to the dust of their feet.

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