Is Sikhi A Missionary Religion

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all and Only five Jee!

You wrote "Those that say following the Koran or Vedas, which a Muslim and Hindu must do, is not a wrong act are saying the Koran and Vedas are the Shabad Guru. No where in Gurbani does it say to follow the Koran or the Vedas or Bible. It say to follow the Shabad Guru ONLY."

Is it possible that Scriptures and printed Granths of other religions are not their Sabad Guru but the printed Granth of Sikhs is their Sabad Guru?

The wisdom of the Sabad Guru is not received by possessing the bundle of printed paper and reading it. The secret of this wisdom lies in receiving it.

ਪੜਿਐ ਨਾਹੀ ਭੇਦੁ ਬੁਝਿਐ ਪਾਵਣਾ ॥

पड़िऐ नाही भेदु बुझिऐ पावणा ॥paRiai naahee bhedu bujhiai paavaNaa || SGGS Ang 148

Read not the secret resolved is receiving it.

Quote "If the Koran and rest of the religious text teach the Shabad Guru as some people are implying here, but don't want to come out and say it, then what was the need to write down the Shabad Guru and then place it on a Palki and bow down to it(Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj)?"

No text of scriptures is able to transfer this wisdom. The scriptures of all religions suggest only where and how to get it.

Quote "We already had the Shabad Guru according to some here, it is in the Koran. So why didn't Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji pick up the Koran and teach the true intrepretation of the Koran. Why didn't Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji pick up the Bible and teach the true intrepretation of it? He would have bowed at the Mosque and told them to get rid of the rituals. Shabad Guru is here in the written form(Koran, Biblie), so infact Gurbani becomes (forgive me for saying this) useless, as the Koran is a true path to Sri Waheguru ji, along with Vedas, Bible, etc, etc."

The preachers translate and misinterpret the scriptures.

The true Guru transfers the wisdom of the Sabad directly. Scriptures then become one's own experience. A translation is no more needed.

Quote "Creating a different religions that is doing the same as Islam or Hinduism is only creating more divisions among people that all come from the same, Sri Waheguru ji."

The reverend Gurus brought human beings back to their origin, God. They did not start a different religion. These are your preachers who are trying to encash it this way.

Quote "Lastly it would not be wrong if one day in the Gurdwara the Granthi replaced Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji with the Koran and the whole sangat bowed down to the Koran."

Do not worry about it. Sikh Mullahs and Sikh Brahmins are living on it. They will die not to let it happen.

*****

All can reach Truth through the Sabad Guru. Many get lost in printed matter. A rare few ones survive and revive the wisdom of Sabad Guru, with God's Grace.

Balbir Singh

[GPS]

GPS, you have divided Truth up into three different ones, when Gurbani tells us there is only one Truth(it never changes), which the Shabad Guru teaches us. The only way the Vedas can be true is if they are the Shabad Guru, same goes with every other religious text because Gurbani pounds into us, ONLY follow the Shabad Guru. By saying Muslms can reach Sri Waheguru ji as in following the Koran, you or anyone are for a fact saying the Koran is the Shabad Guru. If Koran was true, then it would teach Gurbani, same goes with the rest of the religious text. But the fact is that it does not teach Gurbani.

Only five ji

Read my post in proper context as it does not convey what you are trying to say here.

It says that for us SGGS is supreme and we are to follow that.

Muslims and Hindus have their own scriptures.

Tell me how does a true Hindu, not the one that worships an idol, because you're saying these are the rituals that are not a part of the True Hinduism, worship Sri Waheguru ji. Then also tell me how does a True Muslim worship Sri Waheguru ji? And this question is open to anyone else(Balbir Singh) that is adovacating that Koran is true and pure.

Please Read what i wrote .

All is being said here is that we do not look down upon teachings of otehr religions

and tell them that their path is inferior hence join us.That does not imply that we

start following those.

We should not claim that Other religions are useless.

This conclusion is completely anti Gurmat.We are no ones to supervise over religious beliefs of others. We have many faults

in our own lives and Guru sahib tells us to correct those first.

[GPS]

As customary, Bijla singh has dished out another long post without addressing the issue.

He has posted two lines of shabad i posted for being a good muslaman with his home made interpretations.

Bijla ji, the shabad is not that difficult to understand demanding a veechar from you

This is what you have interpreted

ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵਣੁ ਮੁਸਕਲੁ ਜਾ ਹੋਇ ਤਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥

musalamaan kehaavan musakal jaa hoe thaa musalamaan kehaavai ||

It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one can become a true Muslim (by surrendering completely to the Will of Waheguru), only then he may be called one.

ਅਵਲਿ ਅਉਲਿ ਦੀਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਮਸਕਲ ਮਾਨਾ ਮਾਲੁ ਮੁਸਾਵੈ ॥

aval aoul dheen kar mit(h)aa masakal maanaa maal musaavai ||

First requirement to become a true Muslim is to love the Dharama (religion) i.e. truth. Then cleanse the mind by sharing the wealth with poor and needy. This way false pride of possessions of worldly wealth goes away.

Translation provided by Dr thind and was posted by me

ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵਣੁ ਮੁਸਕਲੁ ਜਾ ਹੋਇ ਤਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥

मुसलमाणु कहावणु मुसकलु जा होइ ता मुसलमाणु कहावै ॥

Musalmāṇ kahāvaṇ muskal jā ho▫e ṯā musalmāṇ kahāvai.

It is difficult to be called a Muslim; if one is truly a Muslim, then he may be called one.

ਅਵਲਿ ਅਉਲਿ ਦੀਨੁ ਕਰਿ ਮਿਠਾ ਮਸਕਲ ਮਾਨਾ ਮਾਲੁ ਮੁਸਾਵੈ ॥

अवलि अउलि दीनु करि मिठा मसकल माना मालु मुसावै ॥

Aval a▫ul ḏīn kar miṯẖā maskal mānā māl musāvai.

First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away.

Unquote

Inspite of your twisting the meanings it is quite clear to understand what Guru sahib is saying by defining

conduct of a true Muslim.You seem to be fond of Dr Sahib singh's translation and you have provided that here.

It is not essential that his meanings are always are correct.

This is what Sahib singh's interpretation of that shabad.It is obvious whom Guru ji is advising with a broad message to others.

(Asl) muslmwn AKvwxw bVw AOKw hY jy (auho ijhw) bxy qW mnu`K Awpxy Awp nUµ muslmwn AKwey [ (AslI muslmwn bxn leI) sB qoN pihlW (ieh zrUrI hY ik) mzhb ipAwrw l`gy, (iPr) ijvyN imskly nwl jMgwl lwhIdw hY iqvyN (AwpxI kmweI dw) Dn (loVvMidAW nwl) vMf ky vrqy (qy ies qrHW dOlq dw AhMkwr dUr kry) [ mzhb dI AgvweI ivc qur ky muslmwn bxy, qy swrI aumr dI Btkxw mukw dyvy (Bwv, swrI aumr kdy mzhb dy d`sy rwh qoN lWBy nwh jwey) [ r`b dy kIqy nUµ isr m`Qy qy mMny, kwdr nUµ hI (sB kuJ krn vwlw) mMny qy ^udI imtw dyvy [ ies qrHW, hy nwnk! (r`b dy pYdw kIqy) swry bMidAW nwl ipAwr kry, ieho ijhw bxy, qW muslmwn AKvwey [1[

The rest part of post is too long and does not address the subject of discussion

and is a waste of time.

Are you telling us that only sikhs can achieve union with God? That is the crux of your argument.

Per you if one is not sikh he is not entitled to union with God.If so then it is your personal opinion. Do not go overboard to present it as Gurmat by posting irrelevant

material.First assess own conduct before passing comment on other human beings.

YES. Guru Sahib preached Gurmat and took world tours and converted many Hindus and Muslims. People didn’t just like the physical look of Guru Sahib and become Sikhs.

Why Mardana was not converted by Guru sahib? He was his closest companion.

Why Peer behlol did not leave Muslim religion? He remained a Muslim in spite of being a disciple of

Guru Sahib.

There are many more examples from Sikh history i can quote. Your logic will fail there.

In your post 36 you brought another unrelated issue which i failed to notice.You wrote

You told me in another topic that unless one has read the scripture they should not comment on it so why are you commenting on

Though it does not relate to subject yet i find it necessary to address this.

You had written in that post that sarabloh Granth is not written by Guru sahib even though it was a completely different topic.

I asked you to qualify your statement by proof. You should have replied then and there

but you did not.

Have you got proof now.If so present it. Otherwise it is another missionary gimmick we read

on other sites.

Do not cause uncalled for confusion on our scriptures.

[Mehtab Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakaal!

Dear all!

Mehtab Singh Jee wrote "Sikhi is not a missionary religion in the Christian sense, rather "missionary" with respect to the fact that the Guru Sahibaan had a mission to preach truth to entire mankind."

Guru Sahibaan did not have their own mission. They followed God's Hukam.

Truth is not imitating someone who is following God's Hukam.

*****

Please mention one thing that the missionary does. Subsequently let all know if Guru Sahibaan ever suggested that.

Balbir Singh

So? God and Guru are different?

[Bijla Singh]

GPS, if you failed to understand the point of my post then that is your fault. Your every argument and assumption was refuted. Instead of addressing my arguments you resort to the excuse of "post is too long". Have you provided any evidence? Simply not. Follow your own advice first. If one cannot form an opinion without reading Sarab Loh then you shouldn't form an opinion on Quran without reading it first. I don't think this is too hard to understand for a normal person. What evidence did you provide in its favor? None as usual. Shabad you posted was discussed by me with Kulbir Singh and other gursikhs. As stated, words prophet and mohammad do not appear which means Dr. Thind is wrong. Also, conduct described in the Shabad resembles more with a Gursikh than Muslim of a Quran. Had you studied a little you would've known better instead of copying pasting from other websites. Not so difficult to understand the fact that if words don't appear in the actual Shabad then their appearance in the translation is illogical. You posting flimsy translation is causing confusion on our scriptures and the true message. I provided you with Gurbani quotes which you requested and now you resort to "too long" and "irrelevant". Entire post was related to the topic and your arguments. If part of my post is not related to the topic then don't post unrelated questions and false opinions without any basis. I have posted other Shabads that define Pandit, Brahmin, Yogi etc. which are not in agreement with definitions of these words in Hinduism and Islam. This means that Gurbani does not preach others to follow their religions. Try to go in-depth a little next time.

[GPS]

The shabad is very clear and does convey the broader messagge to everyone with address to Muslims.

Dr thind and Sahib singh interpret it the same way with minor variation.

The shabad does not endorse what you are trying to propagate here i.e it does not say that Oh, Muslims

your reliign is no good and leave it join mine.The shabad is simple and you do not have to run to otehrs for

interpretation.The stress is on good conduct.

If one cannot form an opinion without reading Sarab Loh then you shouldn't form an opinion on Quran

it is not only sarab loh you have some problems with Dasam Granth sahib also and you have expressed those here in

an indirect way. Have you read that? This is egotism at display.

I have posted other Shabads that define Pandit, Brahmin, Yogi etc. which are not in agreement with definitions of these words in Hinduism and Islam. This means that Gurbani does not preach others to follow their religions.

Guru sahib was baring hypocrisy, greed and double standards of these pandits who had no life themselves and were preaching

to public.The same apply to us as sikhs if we indulge in such activities. We should scrutinize our conduct first before trashing others beliefs.

IF Guru sahib's mission was to convert people on his tours why he did not convert

His life long Companion Bhai Mardana ji .Bhai sahib died while Guru sahib was by his side

a nd he was buried by Guru sahib with Muslim rites.

Why Peer behlol did not leave Muslim religion? He remained a Muslim in spite of being a disciple of

Guru Sahib.

Have You got any answer for above.Then add few more to this list such as Peer Budhu shah ji,

Rai Bular ji, Rai Kalla ji, Nabbi khan and Ghani Khan ji.

You can misinterpret shabads by harping on one thing but these are glaring examples of tolerance

, compassion,humility, accommodation and equality of humans in sikhism.Let us not turn it into religion

of bigtory by our own theories.

[harryss]

so are we to go around like your saying telling people just believe in your faith. saying to hindus believe in your gods and goddesses even more and tell muslims to kill the pagans as the koran says, if you dont believe this please read islamic history and the koran and hadith. it is full of killing christians, jews and pagans.

47:4 "Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers, smite at their necks, at length when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them) ... but if it had been God's will, he could certainly have exacted retribution from them (himself), but (he lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of God, he will never let their deeds be lost."

9:5 "... fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) ..."

also should we say to radhswami be good radhswami and to the namdhari and other groups.  Who are we to say they are wrong.

 

[GPS]

Your above post is general display of disliking for other religions/sects.It is unrelated to the topic that

you had started by heading it as " Is sikhi a missionary religion."

Our scriptures call for introspection of our own life before passing judgment on others.If others are

bad they will reap their own actions of their own karmas.

If you are so intolerant towards them Go and fight them.

Guru sahib's message is clear

ਹਿੰਦੂ ਤੁਰਕ ਕੋਊ ਰਾਫਜੀ ਇਮਾਮ ਸਾਫੀ ਮਾਨਸ ਕੀ ਜਾਤਿ ਸਬੈ ਏਕੈ ਪਹਿਚਾਨਬੋ ॥

हिंदू तुरक कोऊ राफजी इमाम साफी मानस की जाति सबै एकै पहिचानबो ॥

Someone is Hindu and someone a Muslim, then someone is Shia, and someone a Sunni, but all the human beings, as a species, are recognized as one and the same.

ਕਰਤਾ ਕਰੀਮ ਸੋਈ ਰਾਜਕ ਰਹੀਮ ਓਈ ਦੂਸਰੋ ਨ ਭੇਦ ਕੋਈ ਭੂਲਿ ਭ੍ਰਮ ਮਾਨਬੋ ॥

करता करीम सोई राजक रहीम ओई दूसरो न भेद कोई भूलि भ्रम मानबो ॥

Karta (The Creator) and Karim (Merciful) is the same Lord, Razak (The Sustainer) and Rahim (Compassionate) is the same Lord, there is no other second, therefore consider this verbal distinguishing feature of Hindusim and Islam as an error and an illusion.

Dasam granth sahib

[harryss]

Im not bashing anyone when i say Sikhi is right and the Radhaswami and Namdhari and other groups like those are wrong. you agree.

[GPS]

Im not bashing anyone when i say Sikhi is right and the Radhaswami and Namdhari and other groups like those are wrong. you agree.

But it does not relate to the heading of this topic? Does it?

Start another topic "Sikhism versus Radhaswami and namdharis. An analysis"