Raag Kirtan Query

[Khalasthan86]

VJKK VJKF

Yesterday night, I went to sleep by listening to Raag Kirtan,

and I had a query when I woke up, I heard that some Raags are only

supposed to be sung, at specific times, and, I was listening to a wide

range of Raag Kirtan, between the 9pm - 12am time. :huh:

Is it wrong to listen to Raag Kirtan, at 'wrong' times? :L:

Bhul Chuk Maaf :BL:

VJKK VJKF

[humkire]

In your case, you were just chilling and listening to a wide range of shabads sung in different raags. Thats ok, and I trust you to have gained much 'laha' by that, and felt love for Gurujee, a quickening of simran, and derived gurmat gyan by listening to gurbani kirtan.

Normally, the onus is on a Sikh who does kirtan to work out which ragas are appropiate for what time, and try to sing accordingly either on his/her own or in sangat. For example most morning Asa Ki // tunes are based on morning ragas such as raag Asa, Todi, Bhero etc, whereas a ragi in an evening kirtan darbar would normally sing in raag Sri, Kanra, Malkauns, Sorath, Tilang, Dhanashree etc. You find that some ragas are popular for all times of the day such as Bhervee, Shivranjani, Gunkalee, etc.

When you are listening to kirtan, become like a bee sitting on a flower and sucking out the nectar and getting totally intoxicated.

[chatanga]

Is it wrong to listen to Raag Kirtan, at 'wrong' times? :L:

No, the timings of raags are not important in Gurmat, but they were in the Hindu Classical Sangeet. This is where the confusion arises.

Normally, the onus is on a Sikh who does kirtan to work out which ragas are appropiate for what time, and try to sing accordingly either on his/her own or in sangat. For example most morning Asa Ki // tunes are based on morning ragas such as raag Asa, Todi, Bhero etc, whereas a ragi in an evening kirtan darbar would normally sing in raag Sri, Kanra, Malkauns, Sorath, Tilang, Dhanashree etc. You find that some ragas are popular for all times of the day such as Bhervee, Shivranjani, Gunkalee, etc.

if this were the case, then very few shabd of the early mornings raags would ever be sung, indiviudally or in gurdwaras.

[humkire]

chatanga jee,

You have misunderstood what I meant. All I meant was that when a person learns gurmat kirtan-sangeet, you are trained to know the difference in timing of ragas, and if you ask any ragi or Sikh who does kirtan in raags, they will tell you exactly what I said, i.e when you are doing Asa ki // you will normally choose raags such as Asa, Todi, Bhero etc. This is the usual maryada you find in Darbar Sahib to anywhere, and you would know this if you are well versed in raags and can work out which raag is being sung when you listen to kirtan. Likewise the rest of what I stated. A student of raag musicology would know why this is so, because morning raags usually go heavy on 'ma' sur rather than 'pa' as you find in Raag asa, which creates a lovely freshly woken up vibe.

That does not equate itself to what you understood about what I wrote, whereby you thought, I meant, one is to only sing shabads that were recited in a particular raag according to the timing of that raag in a 24 hour clock. There is no bandish or prohibition in gurmat to not read bani or even sing gurbani anytime not connected to the timing of the raag of that bani. Hence, if someone enjoys singing gurbani in raag jaijawanti at 6a.m, or gurbani in raag bhero at 7p.m, so be it. All I was stating was per gurmat tradition.

[chatanga]

Thank you please.

[sall]

WJKK WJKF

Of Huge importance, here are the timings etc>:

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Timings_For_Gurbani_Raag

[Jai Jai Jai Chandika]

Raags have certain moods and feelings which are bought out when sung, played etc these raags have been allocated a specif time of the day which brings out the best of the moods (ras) during that time frame. However there is nothing wrong with listening lets say darbarie during the day when its a late night raag or asa in the evening when its a morning raag etc. Its just that you get a better feeling or essence of that raag during that time. This may be a bad example but you would feel different if you do your amrit vela banis at 8pm rather than 4- etc not that there is nothing wrong with reading amrit banis during 8pm you just get a different feeling within when you do it at that specif time.

[alias]

raags are an aid that guru ji used in gurbani, just as is taal and sur and 'ways' of explaining phenomenon.

thus each raag (and shruti) help in the understanding of the shabad, which (the shabad) has the main major importence of the message.

siri raag is the 'first' raag in guru maharaaj. it is also a raag that is supposedly supposed to be sung in the first pahaar of the night. keeping in mind that raag is a tool, (as is taal and sur, and swaas and heartbeat, and footsteps e . t . c . ), {siri raag is a nite raag}, siri raag in guru maharaaj starts in the early morning of akhand paat. do the times match up? no. it is virtually imposible to read guru maharaaj consecutively, without breaking the timings of the raags. to restrict feelings to times is another obsticle to overcome that we ourselves may put infront of us.

so whyl raag etc is very importent, there is no point in restricting your feelings toward guru maharaaj at certian times as, this is what, effectively, the timings of the raags do, RE: SIKHI/GURU JI.

just as the akhar and sihaari n bihaari are very importent in gurbani, and raag is to >enhance< the feelings of gurbani, there comes a point as to where all limits to the most importent thing, the shabad, these limits must be finished.

there comes a point where the very akhar on the paper dissolve and dissapear (as one dissolves into it/God), beats merge to nothingness n non existance untill there is no beat, sur has no right and wrong sur, breath finishes, raag restriction (wot u wud feel floating in a space station where day n nite mean nothing, u wud also feel on earth), just as these factors, also ends.

in the end, shabad is the only thing that stays here, thus it is the focal point in gurmat. all else are tools to help us get to a certian somwhere, and nowhere at the same time, to God.

in this territory, is where everything looses meaning, and everything is understood.

so all in all, yes raags and timings are importent, but they will take you so far. just like the akhar.. jin ehe likhe tis sir naahe.. :L:

to find restrictions, is to stand infront of ones own progress. limitless is god, so limitless should be us too.

gur, parsadi, eko jaan.

:waheguru: :waheguru: :waheguru: :waheguru: :waheguru:

[alias]

Raags have certain moods and feelings which are bought out when sung, played etc these raags have been allocated a specif time of the day which brings out the best of the moods (ras) during that time frame. However there is nothing wrong with listening lets say darbarie during the day when its a late night raag or asa in the evening when its a morning raag etc. Its just that you get a better feeling or essence of that raag during that time. This may be a bad example but you would feel different if you do your amrit vela banis at 8pm rather than 4- etc not that there is nothing wrong with reading amrit banis during 8pm you just get a different feeling within when you do it at that specif time.

fateh gurmukho :D

the amritvela for sants are all the time so... sadha rehe anand din raati

and, the fruits that one recieves are different for AV. so from the benti that one duz at AV, guru ji hears it (as far as i see) cuzaour benti is better. benti is better, cus our minds are more serenem n calm. so cuza this, our benti is stronger, then this how we get more fruits at AV.

but this concentration n benti-abillity, can also be done at any time. so this is how u can get sadha AV.

AV = amrivela...:happy:

i think that AV is practice. u practice, then increase ur daswandh to double, the double gen etc till its all the time.

as a joke, uni AV = 6-8 cus this wen all party ppl are sleeping :cool: