bowing when maharaj isnt there

[DhadiMania]

ok the title may have been misleading.

on alpha punjabi, i have noticed people bow to the place where SGGS is placed, but its just maharaj isnt there at amritvela (well he is, but not 4am, maharaj arrives at 4.30am). and people obviously do matha theek before 4.30, as i have seen it as well.

so why is it, people bow down to the place where maharaj is usually seated, when maharaj isnt there, as well as maharaj says to bow to no-one other than SGGS?

also, about the jyot.

if anyone is on sikhphilosophy.net, you may have come across a gora known as "chocolate caramel", now he was asking me the symbolism of the jyot. i said it represents the 10 gurus have merged with god, and thats also the aim of a sikhs life, to merge into the jyot. now he disagreed and said god cannot be confined into a jyot, god is everywhere. i think he wrote a discussion on there. he goes many disagreed with the idea of the jyot there, though he hasnt shown me the topic, yet.

so what do you guys think on the jyot issue, i say its ok, whats it saying to you? or do you think its wrong because its kinda hindu superstition (as choclate caramel was saying).

bhol chukke muaff.

[Deep Singh]

http://www.gurbani.org/webart168.htm article on Joti Svaroop - The Original State.

i haven't found a site that explains Gurmat in more indepth....the site just great. maybe because all the articles are in english.. maybe the article is not quite what you are looking for...but read it anyway.

[kam1825]

i am aware that god is everywhere. the only way i have been able to explain Guru Sahib to non sikhs is by Saying that Guru Sahib is the embodiment of God just as in the simetic religion the ark of the covenant with contained the stone tablets inscribed with the ten commandments is seen as the embodiment of god.

see what he says to that

[S1ngh]

When i went to darbar sahib early in the morning.. i was shocked to see ppls bowing down even knowing that guru sahib jee "siri guru granth sahib jee" is not there.. I didn't actually matha teek cauz there was no guru sahib jee.. so i went to the akal takht sahib and there i was guru sahib jee resting in the room (a mirror door) and only two bibian were doing nitnem in front of the door.. rest of the hall/diwan hall was empty.. I got goosebumps rite there knowling that im just few feets away from guru sahib jee in a room where only few ppls were present :wub: ..

Bow to guru granth sahib, not to palkey sahib..

Same thing happened to us in our local sacto sikh youth camp.. Guru sahib jee didn't came yet and when we brought the kids inside, everybody started taking the matha taeek... (Even their parents too).. I think everybody mind and soul is way too much busy or distracted to even notice whether guru sahib is in the presence or not...

[Akaali]

on alpha punjabi, i have noticed people bow to the place where SGGS is placed, but its just maharaj isnt there at amritvela (well he is, but not 4am, maharaj arrives at 4.30am). and people obviously do matha theek before 4.30, as i have seen it as well.

so why is it, people bow down to the place where maharaj is usually seated, when maharaj isnt there, as well as maharaj says to bow to no-one other than SGGS?

ijQY jwie bhY myrw siqgurU so Qwnu suhwvw rwm rwjy ]

jithhai jaae behai maeraa sathiguroo so thhaan suhaavaa raam raajae ||

Wherever my True Guru goes and sits, that place is beautiful, O Lord King.

Even though guru sahib isn't there, if there are shasters there, you can bow to shasters as well.

[DhadiMania]

so god can take form, while the ardas says...

"oh formless form to waheguru"

formless, god can re-incarnate.

well i think he can, god can do anything, just how do i explain it to this gora (no offence, i dont mean to be racist).

[Deep Singh]

not harsh mnt...but i think it is often very hard to explain to others when we don't understand the thing completely ourselves...it happens to me all the time.

[anon]

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

just to expand on what khalsa jee said.....

ijQY jwie bhY myrw siqgurU so Qwnu suhwvw rwm rwjy ]

jithhai jaae behai maeraa sathiguroo so thhaan suhaavaa raam raajae ||

Wherever my True Guru goes and sits, that place is beautiful, O Lord King.

gurisKNØI so Qwnu BwilAw lY DUir muiK lwvw ]

gurasikha(n)aee so thhaan bhaaliaa lai dhhoor mukh laavaa ||

The Guru's Sikhs seek out that place; they take the dust and apply it to their faces.

there doesnt even have to be shasters there.....

vwihgurU jI kw Kwlsw!

vwihgurU jI kI &iqh!!

[nirgun]

I also think some people bow there because they might THINK guru ji is there and they can't see clearly whether guru ji's suroop is there or not. Sometimes I've gone to the gurdwara and accidently bowed, thinking guru ji's surroop was there, when sukhaasan had already been done or parkash hadn't been done yet... Sometimes you can't tell..

Sadly, some people also bow as a ritual without realizing what bowing represents or stands for

But that's true - wherever Guru Ji sat is probably stll really pure. His essence is still there...

(as long as we dont turn it into a ritual and bow to nothing)

[atl singh]

also whenever we are in tennessee gurmat camp. we always go to the waterfalls and do rehras sahb their and keertan on the rocks next to the falls. we cant bring the sawari their so after ardaas were normally just in a circle or spread out so we just matha teak everywhere.

this also brings up guru nanak dev jees sakhi where he went to some town and layed down but some muslim fakirs got mad at him for laying his feet down towards the mosque. so he turned around and saw another mosque. making the fakirs feeling stupid for moving guru jee around.

moral of sakhi..

akal purakh is everywhere and is evervesant