A U.K. Movement...

[Malwai]

WJKK WJKF,

Reality is a harsh word to use in this context...

How much you believe sikhi is dead is upto you, but how can the panth that was created by the true guru,

Our true guru that sat on a thatee tavee (hot iron plate),

Our true guru that gave their seis (head) for another faith,

Our true guru that gave up their everything, all their family, their comforts and even their shoes and still walked around Machiwara praising Akaal Purakh Waheguru,

Our true guru that sacrificed themselves over 2,500 times during the horrific hours of November 1984,

WE ARE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF THAT SAME GURU,

LOOK AT OUR FAMILY TREE WHAT DOES IT SHOW,

Our true brothers that were bricked alive,

Our true brothers that fought 1 on 125,000 and still fought to the end,

Our true brother that fought with their seis in their hands and still defended the purity of Sri Harmandir Sahib,

Our true sisters that became shaheed at the ages of 8 and 6 (Bibi Waheguru Kaur and Bibi Satnam Kaur) they held grenades and destroyed the tanks making their way to harmandir sahib,

Our true sisters and brothers that gave up their everything and gained matrydom to defend the purity of Sri Harmandir Sahib,

Our true sisters and brothers that became shaheed on the cold streets of Delhi in November 1984,

THAT IS REALITY AND OUR TRUE HISTORY...

SO, HOW CAN A PANTH SO GLORIOUS IN ITS PRIME, 'DIE DOWN', MAYBE FALL ASLEEP BUT THEN IT IS OUR TRUE DUTY TO REALISE WE ARE ASLEEP, WE NEED TO WAKE UP.

THE ONLY THING THAT IS SHAMEFUL IS THAT WE ARE NOT REALIZING THAT WE HAVE NO JUSTICE, WE ARE NOT REALIZING THE AMAZING JEEVAN THAT MANY SANTS BACK IN THE DAY HAD, IF WE LISTENED TO THEIR BACCHAN THEN WE WOULD ALREADY HAVE A HOMELAND WOULDN'T WE....

JUST LOOK AT THE JEEVAN OF SANT BABA THAKUR SINGH JI KHALSA BHINDRANWALE...

THIS IS THEIR BACCHAN IN THE FORM OF AN EYEWITNESS ACCOUNT...

"Baba Ji did a Sampat Paath at Mehta for Sant Ji to come back, after the Paath’s bhog Baba Ji said that, if Sant Ji comes back right now that their will be a nuksaan on the Singh’s, the government will not let the Singh’s live. Sant Ji will return when their will be a Jang. Baba Ji also said that Sant Ji has a duty from Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib Ji to get Khalsa Raj and put a Kesri Nishan Sahib on Laal Kila."

"In Toronto, Canada. Bhai Nishan Singh was telling Baba Ji about Sant Giani Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale’s speech that they made regarding Baba Ji. After Bhai Nishan Singh finishes talking about Sant Ji’s speech, Baba said that some people say that Sant Ji is not around no more. Baba Ji also said that all the biadbee that’s happening, that when Sant Ji comes back, that they will sort everything out. A Singh then asked Baba Ji that when will Sant Ji come back, Baba laughed and replied that when Sant Ji left that they told them not to tell anyone where they are or when they will be back. Baba Ji then said that they are not telling lies, that Sant Ji will definetly come back but they can’t tell anyone when they will be back. Baba Ji also said that people think that they are an old man that is lieing, but when Sant Ji returns that everyone will remember Thakur Singh was telling the truth."

IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME THIS IS TAKEN FROM THE OFFICIAL TAKSAAL WEBSITE...

http://www.damdamitaksaal.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=25:sangats-experiences-with-sant-baba-thakur-singh-jee-khalsa&catid=24:spiritual-inspiration&Itemid=53

SORRY FOR ANY MISTAKES MADE BY ME IN THIS POST...

WJKK WJKF

Whilst I don’t dispute some of your historical statements you make, you do have a very one dimensional view of Sikh history. What you fail to realize is, that all our troubles we face today, including being homeless is OUR fault, not the Muslims, British or the Hindus.

Sikh Quam = Quam of Gaddars (Back-stabbers)

[Malwai]

WJKK WJKF

WELL, I DID SAY I AM SORRY IF MY THREAD HURT SOMEBODY OR IF I MADE ANY MISTAKES....

BUT NO MATTER WHAT CHALLENGES OUR PANTH IS FACED WITH BOTH OF US KNOW THAT SOMEHOW OR SOMEWAY GURU SAHIB IS GOING TO PULL US OUT OF THEM....

WJKK WJKF

Bhai Ji,

You don't have to apologies for your thread, no problem. I admire your passion, but I feel it is misdirected, you need to channel it into doing something that will make a tangible difference.

[KhalistaniGunMan]

Sorry to bring you back down to reality, but nothing is going to happen, not in 2011, 2012, 2015 and so on.

There are so many reasons why nothing will ever happen, almost too many to list.

Sikhi will die out, at minimum in its truest form, arguably this has already happened.

What a shame.

Too many shaheediya have been made for sikhi for it to die out....our short itihaas is full of blood and sacrifice....sacrifice always bears fruit...even if it takes a while for the effects to happen...its up to the next generation to move the panth forward...the previous generation failed us...lets not make their mistakes

[SSG]

Bhai Ji,

You don't have to apologies for your thread, no problem. I admire your passion, but I feel it is misdirected, you need to channel it into doing something that will make a tangible difference.

WJKK WJKF,

BHAI SAHIB,

YOU ARE ALREADY 500x BETTER THAN ME... I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT INDIAN POLITICS, BUT WHAT I DO KNOW IS THAT THE DEAD HAVE NO VOICE.... NOT HEAR IN THE UK, NOT IN CANADA AND NOT IN PUNJAB....

THE LEAST WE CAN DO IS TRY TO RAISE AWARENESS FOR KHALISTAN...

SORRY FOR ANY MISTAKES...

WJKK WJKF

[ladli-fauj]

lol Malwai, i was reading a book on Sant Jarnail Singhs Jis speeches and converstations and you know I read something that can relate to your first comment on this thread, where you say there is no hope and Sikhi will die WOW... Sikhi will die, enough with that crap, Sikhi had faced harder times, where jungle living was the only resort, we will always make it, where does your mind go when you Here RAJ KAREGA KHALSA huh, religion has no use for a person with no faith... so back on to Sant Jits convo... A Singh had come to Sant Ji once and said "I dont think Guru Gobind Singh JI can still come and help its Khalsa" and sant ji asked him what his name was and he goes Ajmer Singh and sant ji laughs and goes instead of putting your last name as Singh you should have been called Ajmer Dass because GUru Ji says SATGURU MERA SADHA SADHA NA AAVAY NAA JAAYEH--My satuguru is always and forever with me. He does not come and go.

[Malwai]

lol Malwai, i was reading a book on Sant Jarnail Singhs Jis speeches and converstations and you know I read something that can relate to your first comment on this thread, where you say there is no hope and Sikhi will die WOW... Sikhi will die, enough with that crap, Sikhi had faced harder times, where jungle living was the only resort, we will always make it, where does your mind go when you Here RAJ KAREGA KHALSA huh, religion has no use for a person with no faith... so back on to Sant Jits convo... A Singh had come to Sant Ji once and said "I dont think Guru Gobind Singh JI can still come and help its Khalsa" and sant ji asked him what his name was and he goes Ajmer Singh and sant ji laughs and goes instead of putting your last name as Singh you should have been called Ajmer Dass because GUru Ji says SATGURU MERA SADHA SADHA NA AAVAY NAA JAAYEH--My satuguru is always and forever with me. He does not come and go.

I don't think you can quite grasp the unique challenges we are faced with today in a global/corporate/elitist/capitalist society, and to equate these with examples from the 1600/1700's is naive at best.

Feel free to continue to romanticize about past glories, it’s not going to get us anywhere.

[ladli-fauj]

lol like i said religion has no room for a person with no faith, you dont need to worry about Sikhi, there is someone bigger than you worrying about it, looking at what you have to say one can clearly draw you have not gained knowledge Sikhi has to offer,, sad but Guru Jis will, if Sikhi was going to be defeated so easily like you say it would have in the 80's. You can believe what ever you want, its actually not going to get you anywhere, Guru Ji will always watch over Khalsa, and you Malwai will get to see the power of Khalsa in the coming years, as Kalyug comes to an end we will see then at what heights SIKHI will be.......

[VanHelsingh]

I don't think you can quite grasp the unique challenges we are faced with today in a global/corporate/elitist/capitalist society, and to equate these with examples from the 1600/1700's is naive at best.

Now, if you were to present your views on the above and identify how we might attempt to tackle the issues facing Sikhs, we could start to get somewhere. The problems facing us are overwhelming but we need to start identifying and discussing them first!

I'm always up for talking about the realities of the situation, even if I do sometimes let the "romantic" (not necessarily incorrect) thoughts dictate my appraisal of the situation.

[Malwai]

lol like i said religion has no room for a person with no faith, you dont need to worry about Sikhi, there is someone bigger than you worrying about it, looking at what you have to say one can clearly draw you have not gained knowledge Sikhi has to offer,, sad but Guru Jis will, if Sikhi was going to be defeated so easily like you say it would have in the 80's. You can believe what ever you want, its actually not going to get you anywhere, Guru Ji will always watch over Khalsa, and you Malwai will get to see the power of Khalsa in the coming years, as Kalyug comes to an end we will see then at what heights SIKHI will be.......

How did you reach the conclusion that I have no faith? Maybe Khalistan is not the Hukam of Waheguru? My faith in Waheguru is not based on materialistic or worldly needs, and that includes Khalistan. What knowledge have I not gained? Can you articulate? I don't think you can claim Sikh victory for the 80's, we were firmly defeated and operations in Punjab against Sikhs still continue today in covert guises, e.g. rampant drug abuse, lack of economic development and denial of free speech. This list is by no means exhaustive and these heading all have sub-contexts that pose their own threats and challenges.

One thing I do know is that Sikhi does not promote prophecies, but clearly your post appears to read like a Christian evangelical preaching the end of the world, we know nothing of Waheguru's Hukam and what the future of mankind holds. You also appear to underestimate Kalyug and its deep roots and devastating effects.

I really don't want to sit here being critical, but it has to be said that there is a whole generation of Western Sikhs who appear to be "Internet Warriors", have never been to Punjab or have significantly experienced the grass roots reality, but continue to live in a romantic fantasy world. Sitting on your laptop and getting fired up watching YouTube video of Shaheeds is only healthy if it promotes positive action, i.e. Libya, Egypt, Syria or other charitable efforts to have some positive influence on the Sikh community. Believe me, 10 minutes in a thana (police station) being dished out a beating by Punjab Police would make 99% of you forget about Khalistan, like the famous saying goes "Talk Is Cheap".

[Malwai]

Now, if you were to present your views on the above and identify how we might attempt to tackle the issues facing Sikhs, we could start to get somewhere. The problems facing us are overwhelming but we need to start identifying and discussing them first!

I'm always up for talking about the realities of the situation, even if I do sometimes let the "romantic" (not necessarily incorrect) thoughts dictate my appraisal of the situation.

I appreciate your comments Bhai Ji, very constructive and discussion worthy. I think my views on the challenges faced by the Quam merit a separate thread so not to dilute the reality with idealism. It will take me some time but it is something I will do in the coming days.