Guru Nanak Gudwara Smethwick Major Beadbi

[m4ndy]

I totally agree with mandela's views on this subject.

I don't like how some gurdwara sahibs have benches and chairs in the main hall for example Baba sang gurdwara smethwick and Soho road gurdwara it looks highly insulting. When it's less busy you get young people sitting on chairs/benches, whats the future chairs line by line in the darbar sahib? If someone is really disabled they will be in a wheelchair I understand about the disabled issue, but really how many are there in our community who cannot

sit on the floor? It's ignorance it's nothing to do with

discrimination people don't even sit for long 5 minutes at the most.

Personally when I see the chairs/benches I find it insulting and intimidating when every other member of the sangat is sitting on the floor we have people behind us sitting higher I found that strange when they can clearly walk why not just sit on the floor, sitting on the chairs makes them seem inferior to others, more people come and sit to gossip.

[gurdssingh]

This has been discussed before, I stand by my opinion that the disabled, elderly and all others who can not physically sit on the floor should be able to sit on a bench or chair as long as it is lower than Maharaj SGGS Ji. I've noticed some people have an issue with those who can't physically sit on the floor, sitting higher than the sangat. As long as they are lower than SGGS Ji what's the problem? I have mentioned before the kirtani jatha's sit on a raised platform, the response was well they are spreading gurmat and imparting knowledge so we should show respect to them. This is true, BUT we should also show respect to those who can't physically sit on the floor. I mean majority of kirtanees can sit on the floor as they do on a raised platform, so those who want darshan of maharaj why can't they?

Only when you or one who is close to you can not sit physically or comfortabally without extreme pain on the floor, will you think that it's wrong. As long as the person is showing respect is lower than maharaj, then what is the problem?

OFCOURSE lazy, arrogant people should not abuse this. Satkar to dhandhan SGGS Ji is upmost. But just put yourself in the place of someone who wants to be in darbar of SGGS Ji but can't sit on the floor.

[DustOfTheSaintsFeet]

I totally agree with mandela's views on this subject.

I don't like how some gurdwara sahibs have benches and chairs in the main hall for example Baba sang gurdwara smethwick and Soho road gurdwara it looks highly insulting. When it's less busy you get young people sitting on chairs/benches, whats the future chairs line by line in the darbar sahib? If someone is really disabled they will be in a wheelchair I understand about the disabled issue, but really how many are there in our community who cannot

sit on the floor? It's ignorance it's nothing to do with

discrimination people don't even sit for long 5 minutes at the most.

Personally when I see the chairs/benches I find it insulting and intimidating when every other member of the sangat is sitting on the floor we have people behind us sitting higher I found that strange when they can clearly walk why not just sit on the floor, sitting on the chairs makes them seem inferior to others, more people come and sit to gossip.

Some peoples views on here are Foolish and laughable to say the least.

Firstly, when Baba Nanak went to Mecca, he faced his feet towards the Kaaba. This was not just because the kaaba is a rock or an idol.

He was trying to make a point that God resides everywhere so who cares where we point our feet. He was trying to say that respect for God comes from within, not without and that when he is recognised to be every where in Everything, that's true respect.

Yes respect to Guru Granth Sahib Ji is deserved, but to see the Guru in everything and everyone, ie. the elderly lady or man sitting at the back on the chair, is the best deed.

I give respect to my Guru while sitting on the toilet, I see him in the <banned word filter activated> in the toilet, in everything and every one. When the Guru Merges with god, he becomes All pervading like the One.

You judge elderly people who wish to come and meditate in remembrance of Him, who sit on chairs because they find it more comfortable, yet you ignore Him every second in those very same people. That's not respect and it makes you a hypocrite.

It is no crime for a perfectly able person to sit risen above Guru Granth Sahib Ji if they felt comfortable and it helped them go into meditation or deep samadhi and to silence the mind, for that is our aim in life. Faced with the choice to live another janam in Kalyug/ without bhagti or to sit in the Gurdwarra comfortably doing naam simran and going into samadhi, I would happily choose the latter- and the Guru would be happy with His student, for She would have passed his test.

I go into samadhi whilst on the toilet as I find that comfortable- is someone going to slander me? When I go into samadhi in the Gurdwarra, people think I'm sleeping, does anyone really think I care? Sometime the amrit flows spins my chakras and makes my body make sudden uncontrollable movements, like I'm dancing- people stare, but do you think I care? Sometimes I lie completely flat on the floor in prostration to God in the Gurdwarra, people stare, but I really don't give a rat as**.

Guru Ji said On this path to give our heads to Him and pay no attention to public opinion. Everyones path is unique,

Anything that leads to the silencing of the mind is good- Silencing of the mind is the death of the Ego- it is the highest seva on earth for without Ego we are God himself- Ego(Mind) is what seperates Us from Him.

This is what Kalyug has come to, judging those who come and pay respects to the Guru by hook or by crook even if it means sitting on a chair at the back due to illness. This is also where many Amritdharis have fallen and become egotistical and deluded(not all, just a hel* of alot)

Why not go and judge the many granthis who pocket gurdwarra money and spend it on getting drunk down at Glassy Junction, or those boys and girls who come to the gurdwarra just to pull, or those amritdhari boys who diss girls and slander (Sachkandhs most serious and punishable crime) in the Gurdwarra but keep up the external show, instead of disabled old grannys and grandads who just want to remeber God in these Darkest Times?

[Hazoor]

I had a baby by c-section and could not bend let alone sitting on the floor, I'm not old or severly disabled but was in a situation were sitting on the floor wasn't an option. It's ok in the main halls as I managed to stand but in the langar hall I had to use the table and chairs as there was no other practical way of taking langar. Maybe I could stand and eat but post surgery it was about practicality and comfort.

I genuinely don't and didn't at the time think there would have a problem with doing this, it's good to have facilities for those who need them but it's also a shame when the facilities are abused.

[m4ndy]

Some peoples views on here are Foolish and laughable to say the least.

Firstly, when Baba Nanak went to Mecca, he faced his feet towards the Kaaba. This was not just because the kaaba is a rock or an idol.

He was trying to make a point that God resides everywhere so who cares where we point our feet. He was trying to say that respect for God comes from within, not without and that when he is recognised to be every where in Everything, that's true respect.

Who said I was judging anyone? I'm creating an opinion on the issue which you clealry don't agree with fair enough...

So let me ask you is it ok for us to point out feet to Sri guru Granth sahib ji because god is everywhere while we sit down in darbar sahib?

Does it really matter if we have party halls in gurdwaras because let's face it god is everywhere? So if we have a party hall at another location where meat and alochol is served that's considered right? But how if god is everywhere?

Who said anythig about granthis drinking alochol that's yu coming up with that statement not me but maybe we shouldn't judge until we get the whole truth and proof and maybe if you know why not expose bad people who are a threat to re panth?

Yes respect to Guru Granth Sahib Ji is deserved, but to see the Guru in everything and everyone, ie. the elderly lady or man sitting at the back on the chair, is the best deed.

I give respect to my Guru while sitting on the toilet, I see him in the <banned word filter activated> in the toilet, in everything and every one. When the Guru Merges with god, he becomes All pervading like the One.

You judge elderly people who wish to come and meditate in remembrance of Him, who sit on chairs because they find it more comfortable, yet you ignore Him every second in those very same people. That's not respect and it makes you a hypocrite.

It is no crime for a perfectly able person to sit risen above Guru Granth Sahib Ji if they felt comfortable and it helped them go into meditation or deep samadhi and to silence the mind, for that is our aim in life. Faced with the choice to live another janam in Kalyug/ without bhagti or to sit in the Gurdwarra comfortably doing naam simran and going into samadhi, I would happily choose the latter- and the Guru would be happy with His student, for She would have passed his test.

I go into samadhi whilst on the toilet as I find that comfortable- is someone going to slander me? When I go into samadhi in the Gurdwarra, people think I'm sleeping, does anyone really think I care? Sometime the amrit flows spins my chakras and makes my body make sudden uncontrollable movements, like I'm dancing- people stare, but do you think I care? Sometimes I lie completely flat on the floor in prostration to God in the Gurdwarra, people stare, but I really don't give a rat as**.

Guru Ji said On this path to give our heads to Him and pay no attention to public opinion. Everyones path is unique,

Anything that leads to the silencing of the mind is good- Silencing of the mind is the death of the Ego- it is the highest seva on earth for without Ego we are God himself- Ego(Mind) is what seperates Us from Him.

This is what Kalyug has come to, judging those who come and pay respects to the Guru by hook or by crook even if it means sitting on a chair at the back due to illness. This is also where many Amritdharis have fallen and become egotistical and deluded(not all, just a hel* of alot)

Why not go and judge the many granthis who pocket gurdwarra money and spend it on getting drunk down at Glassy Junction, or those boys and girls who come to the gurdwarra just to pull, or those amritdhari boys who diss girls and slander (Sachkandhs most serious and punishable crime) in the Gurdwarra but keep up the external show, instead of disabled old grannys and grandads who just want to remeber God in these Darkest Times?

[DustOfTheSaintsFeet]

Lol you are again coming up with weak arguments.

1) You are clearly missing the message Baba Nanak was trying to portray.

Yes it is okay for us to point our feet towards Guru Ji, if we are loving him entirely in our heart and as everything and everyone including the slanderer and the saint, including the Idol that is Kaaba and Satan himself. God is restricted to no place, hence the reason the Gurus said every thing they see is pure. When you point your feet to the end of your bed at night you are pointing it right in the Gurus Face- there is no denying this truth. The Gurmukh does not need to face a certain way to experience God, we do not need to sit to the east or west and the worship does not need to be done in a gurdwarra when the Guru is all pervading- We are able to remember and feel him within and without us 24/7- hence the gurbani truths that the gurmukh lives in remebrance of God day and night.

It is a love beyond the confines of imagery, and fear- beyond the shackles of logic which is the sole thing that holds us here in the cycle of births and deaths. It cannot be explained, only experienced.

My friend, when you are attached to imagery, you see things as bad and good, when you are attached to God, you see every action and every little thing as hukam and as perfect.

When the moghuls plagued the earth, they were actually God himself- Gurbani calls them the messenger of death- sent by god himself.

Listen carefully....

Our beloved Gurus were not attached to imagery. They had the Power of God for they were merged in Him. If they wanted the moghuls dead they would have died in an instant with one inner command or raise of the hand- millions upon millions of moghuls would have dropped dead for no reason at the Command of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.

But He let them live.

Why?

Because he respected Gods Hukam- the law of hukam is that every single little thing is God's will and command according to karma. The rapist rapes because of karma, the murderer kills because of karma, the celebrity is famous because of karma- there is no pity in this game, there is compassion, but no pity, for everyone earns what they reap- it is God's law.

What you see with the foolishness of the meat and alcohol in party halls is God's khel at work. Alcohol causes mental illness and hinders the path of Sikhi in a spiritual sense, it also attracts demons and negative energies in the khel so it should not be served. Meat heightens the five theives so should only really be eaten by high level truth seekers and warriors who can handle it and have taken steps to kill the mind i.e the five theives, hence jhatka.

When you are attached to imagery and get angry and fuelled up at people and things, you are feeding your theives. A gurmukh calmly accepts it as hukam internally, for they know everything around them is false imagery. The gurmukh speaks the truth to the wrong doers calmly and takes action if need be- all with a calm heart, remaining in the balanced state of Truth- they recognise the wrong doing as gods hukam and perfect according to karma, so don't get overly flustered, then take righteous action and speech to remedy the situation.

At the moment, a few elderly people sitting on chairs to remeber God and hence bringing the light of his Knowledge into this darkest age known to mindkind(in the khel) should really be seen as a pro. Yes if people are acting st*pid and drinking in the gurdwarra etc then calmly go militant on them, but to single out people sitting and meditating on Truth is utterly ridiculous and yes, very much laughable.

[m4ndy]

Ok kool :D

Just to add I thought jhatka meat was a Hindu ritual? regardless of what went on we are not living in war times... vegetarian food is widely available.

''Sitting on a cushion, a distinctive seat, a chair, a stool, a cot, etc. or in any distinctive position in the

presence of the Guru Granth or within the congregation is contrary to gurmat (Guru’s way)''

[simran345]

WJKK WJKF

Try asking somebody with a disability like myself what its like sitting on the floor.

With waheguruji's kirpa I am able to sit for a bit, but why should I have to leave the gurdwara just because I cant sit on the floor for more than 5mins?

I dont think people with disabilities take advantage of the chairs, the gurdwara I go to there is one or two at the back, so its not a distraction either. I dont like chairs at the front either as it doesnt look nice, but if somebody is unable to sit for long and wants to listen to path then they should not be forced to leave. That is totally unfair and discrimination.

Its hurts me to hear some of the posts on here. Obviously these people dont know as they dont have disabilities. If somebody looks normal from outside it doesnt mean they are healthy and can do acrobatics, or are flexible in any way.

I try to sit against the wall on the side when I cant sit with crossed legs. I dont like doing this, and I dont like sitting on chairs, I try to sit as long as I can but that does me more damage.

So why should I sit at home on my own depressed, nowhere to go and cry, whilst those of you who dont agree with chairs or benches, have the privilege of enjoying your lives, being able to go where u want when u want, and then belittle the disabled, and think we are nothing and shove us wherever u want and do watever u want.

Why?? coz you dont have a disability?

There are young generationm aswell as elder generation with disabilites and health conditions, which a lot of people do not realise, for whom going to the gurdwara would be the only place they would go and their hearts fill with joy of being able to go to wahegurujis house without being shoved around.

How can the disabled and elderly be in sangat, when they are not given the chance.

Everybody is going to go old one day, and when one is unable to function properly WHY SHOULD THEY BE STOPPED FROM GOING DUE TO LACK OF FACILITIES.

Thankuji for listening.

[Mandela]

WJKK WJKF

Try asking somebody with a disability like myself what its like sitting on the floor.

With waheguruji's kirpa I am able to sit for a bit, but why should I have to leave the gurdwara just because I cant sit on the floor for more than 5mins?

I dont think people with disabilities take advantage of the chairs, the gurdwara I go to there is one or two at the back, so its not a distraction either. I dont like chairs at the front either as it doesnt look nice, but if somebody is unable to sit for long and wants to listen to path then they should not be forced to leave. That is totally unfair and discrimination.

Its hurts me to hear some of the posts on here. Obviously these people dont know as they dont have disabilities. If somebody looks normal from outside it doesnt mean they are healthy and can do acrobatics, or are flexible in any way.

I try to sit against the wall on the side when I cant sit with crossed legs. I dont like doing this, and I dont like sitting on chairs, I try to sit as long as I can but that does me more damage.

So why should I sit at home on my own depressed, nowhere to go and cry, whilst those of you who dont agree with chairs or benches, have the privilege of enjoying your lives, being able to go where u want when u want, and then belittle the disabled, and think we are nothing and shove us wherever u want and do watever u want.

Why?? coz you dont have a disability?

There are young generationm aswell as elder generation with disabilites and health conditions, which a lot of people do not realise, for whom going to the gurdwara would be the only place they would go and their hearts fill with joy of being able to go to wahegurujis house without being shoved around.

How can the disabled and elderly be in sangat, when they are not given the chance.

Everybody is going to go old one day, and when one is unable to function properly WHY SHOULD THEY BE STOPPED FROM GOING DUE TO LACK OF FACILITIES.

Thankuji for listening.

Mandela feels for your situation and yes there should be facilities for your kind but just like tables and chairs was implemented for people like you but if you got to your local Gudwara you will see majority of able bodied people sitting on them. Once they get abused it will continue for years on end.

Also for many years sangat has been going to the Gudwaras all over the world why all of a sudden have we seen this beadbi happing in our Gudwaras. Mandela feels this a direct attack on Sikhi values.

[simran345]

WJKK WJKF

"My kind" ??? And wat is that supposed to mean, I'm no different from you, just coz i have a disability. ANd wat kind are u exactly? Wat if u had the disability then how would u feel if u were not able to go to gurdwara without everybody looking at you. We get enough discrimination from some members of sangat, NOT saying all, few who are ignorant of the rest of the world.

Gurdwara is not only for healthy people, anybody can go to the gurdwara. How do you they are able bodied? and wat is the definition for able bodied?

It is not beadbi to me, you have ur opnions, I have my own. So I will stick to my own.

Dont be ridiculus its not an attack on sikhi values,,, Its people like "ur kind" that deters disabled people and people with health conditions from going to the gurdwara.

I agree if one does not need to sit on a chair then they shouldnt, so wat are the ones that want to go to gurdwara and be able to stay there longer, wat are we supposed to do?

Especially if they are young, even the elderly, are we suppose to rot away at home, coz our lives are already full of dukh? Are we suppose to listen to be quiet and not say anything which will help us in order for us to have wat u have and reap when u go to the gurdwara? And listen to "ohhhhhh eh tha bechari de karm ha, gurdwara nai jaa sakdi"

Wat a load of nonsense....I feel that before now gurdwaras have been denying that right for disabled people to go to the gurdwara....

Why should one go when there is no facility for them? Answer that?

You're not the one that has to live with the disability so its easy for u to say wat u are saying, but there are thousands out there, for whom the chairs are a godsend and i fully support them for those that need them.

Thats the only reason i go now, as I feel secure that if I am wobbly or my co-0ordination is not rite on one day, i know i can sit on a chair, even downstairs in the langar hall, without being harassed.

The beadbi im feeling is ur attack on disabled people.

The gurdwaras should have a structure where they can implement how they are to be used.

I could argue to if i wanted to, about gyms being built in gurdwara premises, for those that are healthy, so nothing for the needy???

And wat about the gareeb, and the needy?? Wats provided for them?