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So basically I been noticing the past couple of days that Sangat TV have been promoting/supporting the idea of Bhagat Ravidas being a Guru etc...

So the first question I'd like to ask is whether Sangat TV considers itself a "Sikh Channel" after all in the Sikh Rehit Maryada we believe in 10 Guru's and thats it! So is Sangat TV now moving in a direction that it can no longer call itself a Sikh Channel?!

Secondly I was actually watching one of the programmes where a very well respected individual Mohinderpal Singh stated the Ravidas community should not separate bani and form a new panth... and yet later on he goes on to say its important to have our own Nagar Kirtans, Gurdwaray etc so our voice is heard! Is that not a contradiction?

I think its very unfortunate in regards to the direction Sangat TV are going! Absolutely every community needs to be represented HOWEVER by continuing to call Bhagat Ravidas Guru...they are outside the edicts of Sikhi... in my opinion.

Its not like calling Bhagat Ravidas a bhagat is some sort of insult or demeaning!... I don't understand what the Ravidas communities opposition is? If they claim its some sort caste discrimination... its not like other "castes" are calling for other bhagats or sants to be called a Guru... furthermore its becoming apparent that in time the Ravidas community is moving further away from the Khalsa panth, just watching their programmes/speechs other than Monhinerpal Singh there is no other Kesh-dhari let alone Amrit-dhari

Its just very disturbing/unfortunate that Sangat TV is allowing this to be promoted under its banner! They might aswell indulge Naamdharis and Radhoswamis whilst their at it!

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Practices of Ravidassia community may seem weird to "mainstream" Sikhs, but Ravidassia community has been heavily ostracised and treated as "outcastes" by mainstream Sikhs in previous generations. Hence, their desire to separate and build their own religion. This has been promoted by RSS to weaken Sikhs. Actually, what the elders and Sangat TV are doing is good. We need to build community relations, show them that they are our brothers and sisters, and re-integrate them into the mainstream Sikh fold. It will take time, but we don't want to be in a position where, due to caste differences pursued by Punjabis in India and, to some extent, in UK in elder generations, we break these people off from Sikhi completely.

People won't like this post. I'll probably be vilified, but we need to take a long-term view and not fall for the tricks the Panth Dushts are trying to inflict on us.

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Practices of Ravidassia community may seem weird to "mainstream" Sikhs, but Ravidassia community has been heavily ostracised and treated as "outcastes" by mainstream Sikhs in previous generations. Hence, their desire to separate and build their own religion. This has been promoted by RSS to weaken Sikhs. Actually, what the elders and Sangat TV are doing is good. We need to build community relations, show them that they are our brothers and sisters, and re-integrate them into the mainstream Sikh fold. It will take time, but we don't want to be in a position where, due to caste differences pursued by Punjabis in India and, to some extent, in UK in elder generations, we break these people off from Sikhi completely.

People won't like this post. I'll probably be vilified, but we need to take a long-term view and not fall for the tricks the Panth Dushts are trying to inflict on us.

I completely agree with SinghWarrior here!!!

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WJKK WJKF

I also agree with Singhwarrior.

Its the higher caste sikhs that always used to belittle them, and not allow them equal rights. My grandparents used to tell me lots of stories of how they were looked down upon, and not even eat from the same household. Thus the reason why they wanting to go their own way. Its great sangat tv are showing them on their channel. thats the only way to integrate them otherwise lose them.

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Yes integration is a good thing however there is a distinction between mainstream Sikhs and Ravidassia Sikhs.

Sangat TV have advertised all programmes as relating to "Guru Ravidass" and not "Bhagat Ravidass". There is a difference in beliefs and you need to be one way or the other. The jakara that's been on these channels from the "Guru Ravidass Gurdwara's "is noticeablly different "Bole So Nibhai, Siri Guru Ravidass Ki Jai".

The fact of the matter is how can you integrate when you have different beliefs?

Either you believe in Bhagat Ravidass as a "Guru" or you don't. In mainstream Sikhi we don't.

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@rinku_sikh, yes this is where people like me get confused as to what to call them, Bhagat or Guru. I'm sure youngsters born in uk are in the same position aswell, because if i was to walk into a Ravidass gurdwara I would not know any different and think of as a mainstream gurdwara. ~Until one does their research, it is very confusing.

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Sikh's believe's in 10 Guru's and Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as our everlasting Guru.

Now if you start showing programmes that are in conflict to this, will they also start showing Radhaswami and Naamdhari Programmes as they also believe in more than 10 Guru's?

My personal view is Sangat TV are out of order and really need to decide their position on this and not float around and confuse people as @simran345 mentioned. What is their stance on Sikhism? What do they believe in?

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Yes integration is a good thing however there is a distinction between mainstream Sikhs and Ravidassia Sikhs.

Sangat TV have advertised all programmes as relating to "Guru Ravidass" and not "Bhagat Ravidass". There is a difference in beliefs and you need to be one way or the other. The jakara that's been on these channels from the "Guru Ravidass Gurdwara's "is noticeablly different "Bole So Nibhai, Siri Guru Ravidass Ki Jai".

The fact of the matter is how can you integrate when you have different beliefs?

Either you believe in Bhagat Ravidass as a "Guru" or you don't. In mainstream Sikhi we don't.

Agree that we are different. But they (the majority, excluding the minority who are trying to create a Ravidassia religion under RSS instruction/inspiration) still see themselves as Sikhs. Their Jakara is different but they still matha tek to Guru Granth Sahib Ji. They call Bhagat Ravidas Ji, Guru Ravidas Ji. Even amongst "mainstream", Sikhs there are differences.

If we follow your logic, AKJ, Damdami Taksaal, Nanaksar, Rara Sahib, Nihang Singhs have differences between them. Should we, in our own little group, reject these other groups as "not Sikhs" because, as you say, "The fact of the matter is how can you integrate when you have different beliefs?"

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People make me laugh. There was once a time when GURU Nanak was known as Baba Nanak.

Find something more constructive to do than getting embroiled in petty semantics issues for your own sakes.

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Agree that we are different. But they (the majority, excluding the minority who are trying to create a Ravidassia religion under RSS instruction/inspiration) still see themselves as Sikhs. Their Jakara is different but they still matha tek to Guru Granth Sahib Ji. They call Bhagat Ravidas Ji, Guru Ravidas Ji. Even amongst "mainstream", Sikhs there are differences.

If we follow your logic, AKJ, Damdami Taksaal, Nanaksar, Rara Sahib, Nihang Singhs have differences between them. Should we, in our own little group, reject these other groups as "not Sikhs" because, as you say, "The fact of the matter is how can you integrate when you have different beliefs?"

I disagree, I went to school/college/uni with many Ravidassia and often see them around. I asked about this census thing they all supported this and the separate religion while they do not hate Sikhi most see it as a logical progression in their community which one explained to me is to propagate the teachings of Bhagat Ravidass Ji. The change has already started in India and following in Europe and North America. It is all a question of time when it reaches the UK as it has already reached critical mass and the youth are right behind this.

I agree however that Sangat TV should not be manipulated by these people, no disrespect but they dont follow rehat maryarda, display khanda as their symbol, use different jakara and greeting/salutation. They pilgrimage to a place in Varansi not Amritsar.

I dont think RSS is involved and we must stop saying RSS this and RSS that. We are beging to sound as bad as muslims who think everything is a 'Jewish conspiracy'.

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People make me laugh. There was once a time when GURU Nanak was known as Baba Nanak.

Find something more constructive to do than getting embroiled in petty semantics issues for your own sakes.

Right then, its settled. Lets contact every publisher thats got a book on sikhism out there and tell them to recall the books because they need amending. Where they say Sikhism is a religion with 10 Gurus and the 11th being sri guru granth sahib ji, it should now read as a total of 14 gurus as all the different 'castes' need to elevate the bhagat that was from their caste to a position of 'Guru'. Don't worry though, its only 'semantics'. Apparently.

The chamars need to elevate bhagat ravidass to Guru. Thus the julahe Sikhs will need to elevate bhagat Kabir to the position of Guru, because he was a julaha and the jatts will need to elevate bhagat dhanna to the position of Guru.

I'll get the ball rolling by contacting the calandar printers. They'll need to re-set their printing machines.

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Well said West London Singh!!

I'll contact my Gurdwara and ask them to 4 more photo's on the wall next to the current 10 Guru's.

On a serious note beliefs are very different. They don't believe in Rehat Maryada, Amrit, Kesh, and even have their own saluation.

Not forgetting the Nishan Sahib Flag!!

220px-Religious_flag_1.jpg

SANGAT TV EXPLAIN YOURSELVES!

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I can see the arguments of why a "Sikh" channel shouldn't cover them, but we, the Sikh Nation, made a historic mistake in the early '50s by pushing away all the "dalits" from the UP and Rajasthan areas who were willing to align to Sikhi, as in theory Sikhi gives them equal status. The population of UP alone is 200 million - 20% of India's population. A potentially massive number of Sikhs.

However, our leaders at the time, rather than inspiring and bringing them into the fold of Sikhi, we pushed them away because their cultural practice was slightly different from the prevailing Panjabi caste mentality. The Ravidassias are on our doorstep in Panjab, and again they have been historically discriminated against, contrary to the teachings of our Gurus. Strategically, we are weakening the acceptance of Sikhs amongst general Indians, meaning we have even less allies there.

The minority Ravidassias are beginning to openly question Kesh, Amrit and Rehat as a result of discrimination from mainstream Sikhs. If we carry on the way we are, nearly all "chamaars" will reject practising Sikhs as hypocrites and go their own way. However, there are many "chamaars" that are Amritdhari. You can see some of them with their Kesh and Kirpaans on the Sangat TV footage.

RSS is fully behind the proliferation of separate Deras and sects in Panjab (including Noormehlia, Jhoota Sauda, Ravidassia religion, Bhaniarawala). If we choose to be blinkered and ignore it, that's up to our own conscience.

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