dalsingh101 Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 People make me laugh. There was once a time when GURU Nanak was known as Baba Nanak. Find something more constructive to do than getting embroiled in petty semantics issues for your own sakes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetshera Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 Agree that we are different. But they (the majority, excluding the minority who are trying to create a Ravidassia religion under RSS instruction/inspiration) still see themselves as Sikhs. Their Jakara is different but they still matha tek to Guru Granth Sahib Ji. They call Bhagat Ravidas Ji, Guru Ravidas Ji. Even amongst "mainstream", Sikhs there are differences. If we follow your logic, AKJ, Damdami Taksaal, Nanaksar, Rara Sahib, Nihang Singhs have differences between them. Should we, in our own little group, reject these other groups as "not Sikhs" because, as you say, "The fact of the matter is how can you integrate when you have different beliefs?" I disagree, I went to school/college/uni with many Ravidassia and often see them around. I asked about this census thing they all supported this and the separate religion while they do not hate Sikhi most see it as a logical progression in their community which one explained to me is to propagate the teachings of Bhagat Ravidass Ji. The change has already started in India and following in Europe and North America. It is all a question of time when it reaches the UK as it has already reached critical mass and the youth are right behind this. I agree however that Sangat TV should not be manipulated by these people, no disrespect but they dont follow rehat maryarda, display khanda as their symbol, use different jakara and greeting/salutation. They pilgrimage to a place in Varansi not Amritsar. I dont think RSS is involved and we must stop saying RSS this and RSS that. We are beging to sound as bad as muslims who think everything is a 'Jewish conspiracy'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West London Singh Posted March 13, 2012 Report Share Posted March 13, 2012 People make me laugh. There was once a time when GURU Nanak was known as Baba Nanak. Find something more constructive to do than getting embroiled in petty semantics issues for your own sakes. Right then, its settled. Lets contact every publisher thats got a book on sikhism out there and tell them to recall the books because they need amending. Where they say Sikhism is a religion with 10 Gurus and the 11th being sri guru granth sahib ji, it should now read as a total of 14 gurus as all the different 'castes' need to elevate the bhagat that was from their caste to a position of 'Guru'. Don't worry though, its only 'semantics'. Apparently. The chamars need to elevate bhagat ravidass to Guru. Thus the julahe Sikhs will need to elevate bhagat Kabir to the position of Guru, because he was a julaha and the jatts will need to elevate bhagat dhanna to the position of Guru. I'll get the ball rolling by contacting the calandar printers. They'll need to re-set their printing machines. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rinku_sikh Posted March 14, 2012 Report Share Posted March 14, 2012 Well said West London Singh!! I'll contact my Gurdwara and ask them to 4 more photo's on the wall next to the current 10 Guru's. On a serious note beliefs are very different. They don't believe in Rehat Maryada, Amrit, Kesh, and even have their own saluation. Not forgetting the Nishan Sahib Flag!! SANGAT TV EXPLAIN YOURSELVES! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinghWarrior Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 I can see the arguments of why a "Sikh" channel shouldn't cover them, but we, the Sikh Nation, made a historic mistake in the early '50s by pushing away all the "dalits" from the UP and Rajasthan areas who were willing to align to Sikhi, as in theory Sikhi gives them equal status. The population of UP alone is 200 million - 20% of India's population. A potentially massive number of Sikhs. However, our leaders at the time, rather than inspiring and bringing them into the fold of Sikhi, we pushed them away because their cultural practice was slightly different from the prevailing Panjabi caste mentality. The Ravidassias are on our doorstep in Panjab, and again they have been historically discriminated against, contrary to the teachings of our Gurus. Strategically, we are weakening the acceptance of Sikhs amongst general Indians, meaning we have even less allies there. The minority Ravidassias are beginning to openly question Kesh, Amrit and Rehat as a result of discrimination from mainstream Sikhs. If we carry on the way we are, nearly all "chamaars" will reject practising Sikhs as hypocrites and go their own way. However, there are many "chamaars" that are Amritdhari. You can see some of them with their Kesh and Kirpaans on the Sangat TV footage. RSS is fully behind the proliferation of separate Deras and sects in Panjab (including Noormehlia, Jhoota Sauda, Ravidassia religion, Bhaniarawala). If we choose to be blinkered and ignore it, that's up to our own conscience. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KopSingh Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 I can see the arguments of why a "Sikh" channel shouldn't cover them, but we, the Sikh Nation, made a historic mistake in the early '50s by pushing away all the "dalits" from the UP and Rajasthan areas who were willing to align to Sikhi, as in theory Sikhi gives them equal status. The population of UP alone is 200 million - 20% of India's population. A potentially massive number of Sikhs. i think u may mean the dr ambedkar situaion with the dalits, who could of potentially become sikhs, but ppl like gandhi were tryna stop him, also from what ive read in terms of our leader at the time, the jatts were scared of then becoming a minority, which would of seen, the majority sikh population consist of mostly "lower caste" background ppl. wat i dont get is, WHY did they need someones permission 2 convert 2 sikhi? they shudda jus got on with it, rather than consult with stupid panthic leaders of the time. SUCH STUPIDITY, its unreal from our leaders, they let us down during partition (ppl like baldev singh wil NEVER b forgiven), and they let those poor dalits down too. consequently ambedkar n only some of his followers became budddhists. regarding ravidasis, they make me laugh coz i've never heard of a "jatt" gurdwara, yet they have made "chamaar/ravidasi" gurdwara, BTW before any1 says im being discriminatory im of neither community, thatt why my name is kopSINGH. also how can ravidasis now try n create their own religion? its a joke ting, coz surely they shuda created the "ravidasi religion" when n after ravidas was around, rather than jus come up with their own scriptures/slogans etc. which i believe is more of a political strengthening move as oppose 2 a spiritual movement! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinghWarrior Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 I was talking about the Dr Ambedkar situation. Sikhs need to be humble and, whilst we may not actively seek to convert people, if they are coming to Guru's dwara (door), we should be there for them with open arms. We need to drop our egos, as per Guru Ji's Hukam, and then our jeevans will have much more influence on the world. The Gurdwara system is completely failing in Parchaar in terms of its output of Sikhs. Most young Sikhs join with Guru Ji either through the internet or camps such as Sikhi Camp or Khalsa Camp. The Ravidassias like Guru Granth Sahib Ji's message, but are put off by the hypocrisy of "Sikhs" allegedly living the message. We, as a community, need to put these things right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KopSingh Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 Sikhs need to be humble and, whilst we may not actively seek to convert people wat the hell r u on about? we dont actively seek converts? erm yes we do, sikhi IS a missionary religion, but such is the crap state of our organisations n our set up, our vichaaar 2 non-believers is terrible. It was the british who made sikhs believe we r not a missionary religion. during the british rule of india, sikhi had the most number of converts, and we had the highest growing population, and we were even outbreeding muslims too. if we dont seek converts, then wat is KHALSA MISSIONARY COLLEGE's all over the world? WHY did guru nanak go around the world 2 spread the message. Ur type of ppls attitude n assumptions is y r religion aint spreading, come on man wake up. Guru AmarDas when given guruship, his 1st action was 2 send some of his chelay (followers) 2 go n spread the message. WHATS the point in havin a gem like Sikhi and our guru, and keepin it away from others like a secret, how do we help other spiritualy starvin ppl? we dont shove it down ppls throat n cuss other religions like christians/muslims do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalsingh101 Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Right then, its settled. Lets contact every publisher thats got a book on sikhism out there and tell them to recall the books because they need amending. Where they say Sikhism is a religion with 10 Gurus and the 11th being sri guru granth sahib ji, it should now read as a total of 14 gurus as all the different 'castes' need to elevate the bhagat that was from their caste to a position of 'Guru'. Don't worry though, its only 'semantics'. Apparently. The chamars need to elevate bhagat ravidass to Guru. Thus the julahe Sikhs will need to elevate bhagat Kabir to the position of Guru, because he was a julaha and the jatts will need to elevate bhagat dhanna to the position of Guru. I'll get the ball rolling by contacting the calandar printers. They'll need to re-set their printing machines. The fact is that the word Guru has multiple meaning. NO ONE is trying to add Bhagat Ravidas to the orthodox line of 11 Sikh Gurus - NO ONE! People want to rant and rave about a non-issue like gossip mongering aunty ji's with nothing better to do. They should try focusing their attention to one of the myriad genuine problems we have in the panth - not petty issues. Some of you petty people are clowns. Tomorrow you'll be hooking me up for calling my (deceased) paternal grandfather 'Baba ji' because some bozo may feel like I am trying elevate him to the levels of Baba Nanak or something ridiculous like that. Or like my nana would call any teacher that would teach someone a skill over a period of time, the pupil's 'guru' - for the benefit of some of you people -he WAS NOT equating these teachers to our line of Gurus when he did this! Furthermore, you could call all of the Bhagats in our Guru Maharaj 'Gurus', when we take the original meaning of the word into account. They all teach us, they all bring us out of darkness into illumination. That's what I'm trying to get at. Stop this petty squabbling over semantics without taking context into account. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SikhWorldTv Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 I think where possible we should continue to promote unity amongst each and every community within Dhan Dhan Shri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as the issue of bhagat and Guru is being aggressively manipulated by the anti-Sikh agencies. Recently I watched a UK based Ravidassia (sect) programme state that they only had ONE Guru (bhagat Ravidass ji) and that they should only celebrate this birthday and not like the others (Sikh) who had a birthday every other day! Soon this section of the Ravidassia community will launch their own Skytv channel "Kanshi TV" http://www.gururavidassguruji.com/kanshitvmayjunejuly.htm whereas I've got nothing against this the militant "Chamar power" songs and speeches are defiantly Politically and Religiously uncomfortable for the future of Punjab 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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