Sikhs Getting Beaten Up...

[pedrorizzo]

Anyone who has read alot of my posts will know that I discourage Sikhs from indulging in violence. This is not because I'm a pacifist but because I dont always think that our community is really prepared for the nature of violence and the negative consequences that it brings.

Every disturbance in Punjab over the last few years, whether the sacha sauda kand, ludhiana kand, mumbai kand or the present situation that we find ourselves in, the same pattern appears to be repeating itself. Some mischievous elements provoke the Sikhs. We react with blind rage and without any kind of organisation, ranting and raving with lathis and naked kirpans but usually it is still our boys who end up getting hurt or killed rather than the opposition. Then we take our frustration out on the police who respond in a heavy handed manner, after which our guys end up running away but not before quite a few have beaten up and even killed.

Right now, a brother is dead and many more are in hospital. What has been gained? What has been learnt? Today and yesterday were prime opportunities for us to teach the shiv sainiks and RSS guys a lesson in Punjab when they came out with the sheer audacity to raise anti-sikh slogans and burn a kesri dastaar in the street.

Instead, all that has happened is that the Hindus will get braver because they have seen that they can get away provoking and attacking Sikhs when Sikhs are out in full force in the streets without any kind of serious or dangerous consequences.

I dont agree with violence in Punjab because of the loss of life, the impact on the economy and the lack of development for the Sikh community if Punjab is not kept a peaceful and stable region. However, I think its important that we still have muscle and can demonstrate it when required.

Unless someone can show me different, it just seems that we are losing our teeth and when it really comes down to it, and when we have prime opportunity we just cant deliver the goods and give our opponents a reason to be scared.

I saw the same thing happen with Sant Daduwal's supporters when they used to fight the Sacha Sauda guys. They just used to throw stones at each other for three hours, a little bit of posturing with their sticks and the odd slap here and there, with both sides giving it and taking it. This is not really the way you assert your dominance and scare the hell out of your opposition.

There is a difference between being aggressive and actually being dangerous. At the moment Singhs are just looking like all bark and no bite. Am I the only one that thinks this?

Khalistan Gunman and others, what do you think should happen to improve the situation?

[confusedsengh]

I agree with you we need small cordinated groups that surrond and launch surprise attacks on these terroists. Otherwise the police take there side and we cant go near them. Remove the police and we can beat them back to Bombay.

[JSinghnz]

Anyone who has read alot of my posts will know that I discourage Sikhs from indulging in violence. This is not because I'm a pacifist but because I dont always think that our community is really prepared for the nature of violence and the negative consequences that it brings.

Every disturbance in Punjab over the last few years, whether the sacha sauda kand, ludhiana kand, mumbai kand or the present situation that we find ourselves in, the same pattern appears to be repeating itself. Some mischievous elements provoke the Sikhs. We react with blind rage and without any kind of organisation, ranting and raving with lathis and naked kirpans but usually it is still our boys who end up getting hurt or killed rather than the opposition. Then we take our frustration out on the police who respond in a heavy handed manner, after which our guys end up running away but not before quite a few have beaten up and even killed.

Right now, a brother is dead and many more are in hospital. What has been gained? What has been learnt? Today and yesterday were prime opportunities for us to teach the shiv sainiks and RSS guys a lesson in Punjab when they came out with the sheer audacity to raise anti-sikh slogans and burn a kesri dastaar in the street.

Instead, all that has happened is that the Hindus will get braver because they have seen that they can get away provoking and attacking Sikhs when Sikhs are out in full force in the streets without any kind of serious or dangerous consequences.

I dont agree with violence in Punjab because of the loss of life, the impact on the economy and the lack of development for the Sikh community if Punjab is not kept a peaceful and stable region. However, I think its important that we still have muscle and can demonstrate it when required.

Unless someone can show me different, it just seems that we are losing our teeth and when it really comes down to it, and when we have prime opportunity we just cant deliver the goods and give our opponents a reason to be scared.

I saw the same thing happen with Sant Daduwal's supporters when they used to fight the Sacha Sauda guys. They just used to throw stones at each other for three hours, a little bit of posturing with their sticks and the odd slap here and there, with both sides giving it and taking it. This is not really the way you assert your dominance and scare the hell out of your opposition.

There is a difference between being aggressive and actually being dangerous. At the moment Singhs are just looking like all bark and no bite. Am I the only one that thinks this?

Khalistan Gunman and others, what do you think should happen to improve the situation?

You are absolutely right here.

[singh135]

On the one side you deplore you deplore violence of any kind. On the other side you encourage more organised violence?

[Raju]

dear P, this is a good time to bring this up .. I can recall you were badgered on this very topic a few weeks ago.

Yes there is a pattern .. Yes the shiv sainik/hindus are using Indian policemen as cover to bait the Sikhs and hardly any of them is injured and they are operating from behind police cover. This shows one thing clearly that the Police have been instructed to give cover only to hindus and perhaps their promotion or continuance depends upon this. The utter spinelessness of the Sikhs who work in the police force is also illustrated, looks like they are a completely brainwashed/demoralized lot .. the shiv sainiks or whatever nameless hindu thugs they have clearly been instructed to bait the Sikhs and when the SIkh mob takes up the bait the Sikh police goes after them with batons, or the hindu havildar fires with AK-47.

I think all the red/blue dastar cops aren't really sikhs, it's just part of their uniform and some have just sprouted a stubble to blend in with the uniforms.

but to their credit it is the dastar wearing Sikh policemen who are trying to coax/use kidgloves in pushing back the protestors/mob. The hindus are the ones who don't have any dastars and just wear a cap are using their govt issue AK-47s and other weapons with gay abandon. To top it all the Badal's, who call themselves Sikh, have a rabid hindu as DGP of Punjab Police.

What is clear from above picture is that the situation their is totally screwed and totally against the Sikhs. The only people who have to lose from waging a conventional battle with the cops are the Sikhs. What is shows to any lay bystander is that the Sikhs are not a united force like the muslims who despite their various shortcomings stand united when it comes to religion. What's clear is that there needs to be change in strategy, the current methods have almost exhausted their yield and are clearly not working any more.

Again I wonder how come a Christian named Sonia Maino who rules the country by proxy, can give so much leeway to the Hindus and their puppet police force to wreck so much havoc in Punjab .. oh but then I forget .. that italian is too busy counting notes.

[pedrorizzo]

On the one side you deplore you deplore violence of any kind. On the other side you encourage more organised violence?

I can see why that seems kind of confusing.... As I explained before, I am against violence only because it doesnt get us anywhere most of the time. Part of the reason is that we 'do violence badly.' Aggression on the streets, posturing, shouting and waving shastars around does more harm than good.

Small covert and organised groups which are highly disciplined have their place. They are more effective and can do more damage. My point is that if we dont get our act together soon, we will start to look like an overly aggressive but harmless community. I am against violence but if Hindus have the courage to come out on a Punjab bandh, insult and attack Sikhs, beat them up and burn kesri dastaars in the street without fear of consequence, then we have a problem. It means that they dont respect us and they dont fear us.

On Sarabha Punjab's videos of the clashes in Patiala and Gurdaspur, it is clear to me that the Hindus are alot more organised and clever. In Patiala, it was evident that they gained the attention of the Sikh marchers by shouting slogans, then they lured the Sikhs into narrow alley ways from where they were throwing bricks down from the roofs and the Sikhs couldnt do anything. The Sikhs went ballistic and took their frustration out on the police, injuring the SSP and then the police did their usual lathi charge and bashed people up.

There are videos in Gurdaspur and Phagwara of Sikh youth getting picked up and beaten up by Arya Samaj and Hindu mobs that I saw on Sikh channel yesterday. When the Sikhs react aggressively, the police come down hard. I have not seen any footage of Hindus getting beaten up, only Sikhs.

Notice how the Hindus play it sly. Whenever the camera shows the Hindu mobs, they are able to maintain a much calmer and lower profile than the Sikh mobs and you dont seem them carrying lots of weapons, so when the Sikhs go for them, the police is forced to protect them. Very clever.