Who Did The Most Damage To Sikhism?

[RebelSingh 164]

Rebelsingh "what Chauder" have you seen the amount of Gurdwaras in Birmingham / Southal ie Singh Sabha, Ramgharia, Bhatra ALL CASTE based etc they ALL need Committees with a leader and his minions if this is not Chauder I don't know what is... why do these mugs need to call themselves leaders maybe in the real world they can't speak good enough English to be head of anything else.

My friend if u wud care 2 read my post again, i said, "Whats Chauder?", as in what the eff does that word mean

[SikhWorldTv 243]

Chauder means ego full of self importance

SORRY Rebelsingh I am angry at the moment and misread your post

[UKLondonSikh 163]

whats Chauder?

>>It's the idiots wanting "leadership" fame/wealth etc

also regarding that mug ambedkar, WHY did he need the permission of sikh leaders 2 become a sikh?

>>Apparently he wanted to shak Amrit in Amritsar so as to set a public example that Dalits are not Hindu's

... because Sikhi is all about human equality and social justice for all.

I didnt kno u needed some one elses ijazat 2 convert!

>>True I wish he had.

He shudda jus converted, but sorry 2 say, the jatt leaders, who feared that jatts would then become a minority tribe in sikhi wud sum how suffer!!

>>Sometimes it seems to me, Sikhi will only progress when we Punjabi's become a minority segment of Sikhs

WHO GIVES A EFF what tribe u belong 2, aslong as we r sikhs, end of!

>>Exactly, I agree with u 100%

Had the jatt leaders said "YESS DALIT PAAJIS OF INDIA, welcome 2 sikhi", then our population would been over 120m+ today!

>>Sikhi can still expand if we realise our Dalit brothers in India as natural born Sikhs. Kabirpanthi's+Ravidassia's alone total 100 million and many of them kept SGGS Ji Maharaj before Indira started her campaign to split them away from Sikhs. However, we don't help our case given the discrimination some Sikhs face in Punjab itself.

I used 2 get angry wen i first learned bowt this stuff, now, nuthin shocks me anymore, nuthin!!

>>Anger is a good emotion, if we make sure to follow it up with positive actions, bro. Peace

[VanHelsingh 1,985]

that kameeena gangu who handed over the sahibzadas, is descendent of NEHRU/Charrel/Witch Indira, its probably why he hated us, n she invaded golden temple. Also during ambedkars flirtation with sikhi, that dirty bandha, mahatma gandhi, tried 2 discourage him, fearing the sikh population rise!

Okay cheers for the confirmation. Woah, just look at the connections and how history ended up linking Sikhs negatively with two figures of the same lineage; it's amazing in a completely sad and unfortunate way.

[RebelSingh 164]

Okay cheers for the confirmation. Woah, just look at the connections and how history ended up linking Sikhs negatively with two figures of the same lineage; it's amazing in a completely sad and unfortunate way.

ALSO, remember how only few decades before, gangu's fellow brahmins were saved by Guru Tegh Bahadur, n in return gangu had guru ji's wife n 2 lil grankids handed over 2 wazir the kuttha! Appreciation is not a word in the brahmins dictionary

[hawk13 11]

Most damage is done by those who have trivialized the sikh religion as list of Do's and don'ts !

I hear it all the time "you ain't a gursikh coz u got no kes!" or "this failana banda is a manmukh"

We have failed to understand the difference between sikhism and khalsa ,

I always say the best comparison of sikhism and khalsa is like that of a rose and thorn .

A rose is beautiful and fragrant which attracts everyone , the good ones who like to smell it and the bad ones who wanna pluck it . A rose without thorn is useless , because thorn is a deterrent for rose-pluckers . It safeguards the rose , but yet thorns without rose is of no value !

Sikhism is the rose which attracts the good who wish to learn from it and the bad ones like abdali , etc who wanted to pluck it off . Khalsa was/is the thorn which safeguarded this rose ...

One is of no use without another . So Khalsas are the dedicated sikhs who have vowed their life (sees ) to the protection of this rose ( sikhi) but that doesn't mean people who cut their hair , nirmales , udasis , etc are not sikhs ...

We need to realize sikhi is far more than the 5 Ks . 5 Ks is the vardi of the soldier who protects sikhi , but sikhi is much deeper than this vardi ! trust me ....

U seem to project ur self higher than Guru first be a good sikh .Guru ji said Rehat Pyari mujh ko Sikh Pyara nahi.U seem to forget the misdeeds of nirmals,udasis after the Ranji Singh when these sects controlled the gurdwaras .They used to exploit the sikh women and introduced hindu practces in the Gurdwaras and all udassis and nirmalas supported and helped Mahant Narain dass and others in massacre of sikhs see the book about Akali morchas wriiten by some writer josh

[ladli-fauj 289]

i would say british....heres why

simple reasons british took over Sikh Raj thats when we had a blow....then british started meddling with bani, Sri Dasam Granth was made a target as well as Guru Granth Sahib and other Granths.....India is now using those same tactics of instilling people who look like us within the kaum and causing confusion, india would have never supported such agents and the whole idea of british hadn't thought of it.....3rd they made sgpc and sgpc controls 3 takhts, does anyone really know the real agenda of sgpc and why it was created ? since the coming of sgpc sikhi as we know it and think it is especially in the west has changed drastically, the whole thinking of sikhs and traditions have been changed, we have to have some granths by scholors edited because modern day sikhs will not understand.....finally I believe british were working with gandhi and overall gave power to greedy and land hungry people.....

but also forget about past look whoes doing a lot of harm now MISSIONARIES, theres ''amrit'' sanchars being conducted as of now with banis cut, ardas cut and who knows what not esp in england

[Guest AjeetSinghPunjabi]

U seem to project ur self higher than Guru first be a good sikh .Guru ji said Rehat Pyari mujh ko Sikh Pyara nahi.U seem to forget the misdeeds of nirmals,udasis after the Ranji Singh when these sects controlled the gurdwaras .They used to exploit the sikh women and introduced hindu practces in the Gurdwaras and all udassis and nirmalas supported and helped Mahant Narain dass and others in massacre of sikhs see the book about Akali morchas wriiten by some writer josh

yeah agree , I have my own shortcomings like everyone else !

[ks55 77]

I would say SIKHS - as every attack on sikhism has had sikhs - especially giddars involved on the other side. we even have those giddars present in the AKJ,FEDERATION,TAKSAL IN all jathebandees and they will remain so - as we do nothing about it at all - nothing. Any leader in any orgaisation who doens't give the next generation a chance has to be liar - giddar and that is mostly what you see across jathebandess and Gurdwaras all over the world.

[N30S1NGH 3,155]

While discussing who did the most damage to sikhism is its good but discussing it without any solutions makes us weak and bunch of cry babies. We need to stop playing an victim role and move on to do our part. The faith which was born out of sharpness of sword, the hardship its a given and told when you take amrit.. i m not suggesting that its fate and we should just suck it up ..No...but given iron fist response in form of political activism and other ways - within international legal frame work.

Nothing has changed, it's same sun, same moon which was there in guru's time, we have same amount of malech back then and same amount of malech now. Nothing has changed, only thing has changed lack of chardi-kalah in singhs now compare to before. We must keep staying in chardi-kalah, keep doing naam abhayas, doing seva.

There are plenty of things we can do pro-actively instead of keep citing who our enemies are? I am sure there are lot of them, but we just sit there and don't become pro-active then we ourselves would be our lethal enemies and by contrast by far worst than any external enemies.

I mentioned the points below in other vaishaki nagar kirtan in canada, I am sure there are lot we can do but here are some of them for starters:

- First and foremost priority we need to focus parchar(both punjabi and english) in gurdwaras for our young generation- parchar of bhagti, shakti and activism, instead of protesting infront of corporate type gov't.

We need to work on internal unity first - bring all the brains together and be on the same page thats a must..just compare sikh activism now days with tibetan activism or other oppressed miniority groups , you will see big gap. We lack any organization structure abroad.

- Second thing which we already doing which is great- youtube awareness of human right abuses against sikhs (full credit goes to sikh youth for this one). We need to keep continuing doing this, capitalize on it - member of ss bought very interesting idea of renaming all the human right abuses against sikhs in india to "Indian Tourism" and re-upload them on youtube so it comes up under search results. Not only youtube, lets go further keep capitalizing on manipulating google search results by renaming your blog or already established well known website, name your personal blogs to indian tourism showing human right abuses in hope to win public opinion.

- Third - Study, Study and more study other minorities group who are systematic marginalize/oppressed across the globe - what they have done, what bought maximum impact (changing public opnion/change on oppressed gov't policies), what clearly failed - As i said earlier, its smart to learn from your mistakes but its wise to learn from other people mistakes.

- Fourth- As Sikh community, donate and lobby as whole platform of Wikileaks, this is quite important, they already have base and have genuine aim to expose human right abuses all over globe including sikhs.

Fifth - Have Public relations/Media relations department both in punjab and abroad appointed by sri akaal takth sahib to realease statement for damage control and condemnation of anything which is against sikh ideals i.e- collateral damage, fascist speech etc

Sixth- Urgue Sri Akaal Takth Sahib to have its own channel and have influence in media (very important)

Seventh- Be proficient in online political war/cyber journalism - did you know cyber protest/online political activism turned to be more effective than holding placards in some segregated area near embassy or gov't building?

Eight - Get high influential people i.e- hollywood stars/ex politician to support our cause (just see how many hits human rights abuse in sudan nuba mountains got on google after george clooney arrest in sudan embassy in washigton).

Nine- Infiltrate fascist shiv sena groups which teaches hatred in india and abroad hindu rss/shiv shena type student society which teaches hatred. If they can do it, why can't we as long as its within law and no privacy laws are broken? - May be i m watching too many spy movies..lol.. i don't know if they can do it seamlessly and why can't our monae brothers? (Recently came across sikh spy/ punjab police whistle blower who was able to inflitrate- Sardar Aridaman Jit Singh, click on the link below for his interview - http://www.sikhsangat.com/Index.php?/topic/66446-punjab-fake-encounters-inteview-how-punjab-police-works-must-watch/ )

Tenth- Learn Shastar vidya (get off your arse from computer chair - it applies to me first) not only to defend mob attacks happening against us. This also to preserve the art.

Eleventh- Build relationship with your country First nation people/aboriginals worldwide...let normal public see sikhs suitation through native suitation, best way of relating and winning public opinion abroad...again this is not to please European settlers but normal public, we should also approach other minorities in canada who are oppressed- all have common greif and common goal to stop human right abuses at home.

Twelfth- Whatever you do , stay within law of country you live, don't break the law. We don't live in monarch society where laws are not defined, laws are clearly defined in today's society- stay within law, legal frame work

[UKLondonSikh 163]

@ n30 ... 100% right Paji. Internet discussions have to be followed up with real life actions (if they are to ever have any point) and i know what you said about concentrating on message rather than messenger but ... ayda hi thussee Chardi Kala vich hamay'sha socho Qaum de bhallay vasthay! :-)

[Guest RavindaSingh]

I believe the biggest threat to sikhs are our own people due to their lack of knowledge of sikhi if more people learned and promoted sikhi to our own then less panjabis would be likely to go drinking or taking drugs etc. stuff they shouldnt