Use of songs tunes by kirtanias

[chatanga 1,058]

[Admin Note] Rather than deleting all the posts from previous topic, I have created this new topic some of the posts to ensure that everyone has their say and we have a good discussion on this topic. If you wish to contribute, then please keep things civil

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yeah, they have good voices, but some of the tunes they have used are terrible. beats me why when someone can make the effort to sing so beautifully, they cant be bothered to maintain the gurmt sangeet parnali of using correct raag with it.

I wouldnt be bothered to go to any of their kirtan darbars unless they upheld kirtan maryada. Maybe if all sangat stayed away until they promised to do kirtan properly, jathas would start to make an effort with raag.

[KIRTANSEVAUK 2]

Chatanga Looks like you go to the gurdwara to listen to how a shabad is sang rather than listening to the shabad itself. Raag is important but equally is the message of each shabad and that can be delivered in a number of ways.

[chatanga 1,058]

Chatanga Looks like you go to the gurdwara to listen to how a shabad is sang rather than listening to the shabad itself. Raag is important but equally is the message of each shabad and that can be delivered in a number of ways.

Im sorry but you're wrong, i go to the Gurdwara hoping to be spiritually uplifted by the kirtanis of Guru Nanak's house, but when I hear disco and film tunes being used to deliver the message of Guru Nanak Dev Ji...

Brother, you have said Raag is important, how important is it to you? How important was it to Guru Arjan Patshah? Or !0th Guru?

[InderjitS 1,244]

Dear KirtanSevak,

Agree with Chatanga. They are not alone when it comes to old filmy/bhangra tunes. This is a disease that has affected some of the best kirtanis we 'had'. Take for instance the Atam Ras Kirtan Darbars, I cannot stand them. Even Sri Nagar Vale, who sang the most beautiful shabads 15-20 years back have knocked out some dodgy tunes. I feel its a crying shame. As politicians say we need to go back to basics!

Raag Kirtan is not enjoyed by those that have a taste for popular tunes. The irony is that many old school 'tuny' ragis if you like, are classically trained but choose not to perform in Raag as they know the bottom line is about earning a solid cash flow.

Of course nothing is more important than Shabad. But Gurbani was written in Raags for a reason and the musical measures added immensely to the upliftment of the soul. Some of the newer tunes just hurt my ears. :blush2:

[NamoSarab 24]

Gurbani can be sung and recited in many ways. Maharaj didn't say "Recite Gurbani my way or the high way". It says Gurbani gaavoh HOWEVER YOU CAN. Just recite it!

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਲਾਹਿ ਤੂੰ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਰਾਵਾਰੁ ॥੪॥੨੪॥੫੭॥

Nānak nām salāhi ṯūʼn anṯ na pārāvār. ||4||24||57||

O Nanak, sing the Praises of the Naam, the Name of the Lord; He has no end or limitation. ||4||24||57||

If listening to keertan reminds you of Hindi tunes... maybe you should question why it does so? Maybe you should stop listening to Hindi songs?? Then you would enjoy the keertan without the pollution of Bollywood getting in the way. I listen to hindi tunes, I ain't gonna lie. That's why I can recognize when someone uses a Hindi tunes. I love music, it's a passion. So shoot me. Bhagat Naam Dev Jee and others that were of "low" castes who didn't know how to sing in Raags... did they not do keertan and reach enlightenment? Did they not reach sach khand because they didn't sing the praises of the Divine in Raags?!

Encourage raag, I am not saying don't encourage it. But respect the art of these great keertanis and individuals who sing Keertan in whatever way. At least they are singing and providing a much more spiritual experience for thousands of Sikhs around the world rather than sitting on their behinds infront of a computer screen chatting rubbish

[InderjitS 1,244]

It's an observation. I do not listen to Hindi/Bhangra beats any more but can spot them a mile of.

If you go to a raag darbar, any hall will be half full at best. Whereas if someone renowned for flashy tunes turns up, Gurdwara halls are full to the brim and people are clambering to sit at the front. The demand seems to be for the tunes and not the Gurbani being recited. If it was for Gurbani, Gurdwarey would be packed daily.

Same applies to Jatha smagams. People are more interested in their favourite Kirtani and will quickly rush back from the Langar or take a break from the important Panthic decisions they are making with friends :wow: when a famous Kirtani gets on stage.

These are just my views and if you feel they are nonsense, that's absolutely fine.

[NamoSarab 24]

No, you're right. A lot of the reets that hindi music use nowadays date back many years. Their origins are a lot more traditional, cultural and in many cases spiritual as well. Back in the day, popular songs were family orientated or spiritual eg, a mother and son's relationship, a brother and sister's relationship etc. Not nowadays where it's all about "masti" and what not.

I totally agree with your point about smagams and all too. Unfortunately, in UK, I have seen smagams where the Jatha committee themselves are outside the entire time of the smagam chatting and gossiping between themselves having little meetings - how will they inspire and encourage others to sit inside and take laahaa of the keertan? And yep, it's all about which keertani u get at the smagam too.

In terms of the music that attracts people... I think if it attracts them to come to Gurdwara sahib and do sangat, then it's all good. Obviously, no hip-hop or Dr Dre remixes, but within reason. I see people come to keertan programs because it's a certain keertani, but then when you see them singing along with the keertan and reading translations on the screen... it makes me happy. They're learning something, they are getting SOMETHING from it. If this is a way of encouraging and flaming their spirituality, why should we dampen it?

[chatanga 1,058]

So shoot me. Bhagat Naam Dev Jee and others that were of "low" castes who didn't know how to sing in Raags... did they not do keertan and reach enlightenment? Did they not reach sach khand because they didn't sing the praises of the Divine in Raags?!

How do you know that the Bhagats did not know raags? How do you know they did kirtan?

[VanHelsingh 1,985]

What's worse is if you're not familiar with these filmy tunes, then you hear a shabad sung using these tunes as a child and love it, then you grow older and realise the melody of the shabad/s you love was featured in a Bollywood film lord knows how many years ago.

That is a cruel joke.

[chatanga 1,058]

Gurbani can be sung and recited in many ways. Maharaj didn't say "Recite Gurbani my way or the high way". It says Gurbani gaavoh HOWEVER YOU CAN. Just recite it!

ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਲਾਹਿ ਤੂੰ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਰਾਵਾਰੁ ॥੪॥੨੪॥੫੭॥

Nānak nām salāhi ṯūʼn anṯ na pārāvār. ||4||24||57||

O Nanak, sing the Praises of the Naam, the Name of the Lord; He has no end or limitation. ||4||24||57||

So it would be ok to use Marilyn Mansons music to sing gurbani?

what does that quote have to do with this?

[Singhni19 5]

jokess

[PAL 07 210]

Chatanga is 100% correct those that differ have a lower spiritual disposition. Gurmat Keertan is a musical form of samadhi, it is a high form of spirituality. The musical instruments adopted and the method of using them along with hard practice, a spiritual life and the use of preset musical measures (Ragas) are some of the prerequisites of Keertan that should happen, particularly at a Gurdwara Sahib. Its upsetting when you go to the Gurdwara and you have to listen to 4 shabads in the same taal and in the same dhun and with the same two instruments. Gurbani has 84 different Ragas and over 10 different taals and Guru Sahib even adopted Dakahni Sangeet aswell as Shastriya Sangeet.

Look at the opening photo of the puratan Granth - the Mahan Kosh of a keetanee jatha you see so many instruments and a spiritual glow on their face.

Who would you rather listen to Bob Marley/ Michael Jackson or the spice girls. Today the keertan we are constantly being bombarded with is the quality of the spice girls and yet on this site people justify this a saying "oh keertan is keertan doesn't matter how you do it"

[simran345 2,504]

I love Raags. Dont like the bollywood tunes. All it is, changing the words, dont get no emotions from it, can't connect with it. Although some shabads, that are neither in Raags or bollywood i listen to.

[chatanga 1,058]

There are many Kirtani jathas coming from india very regularly to the uk. Whoever invites them should be encouraging them to uphold gurmat sangeet maryada and spread raag vidiya.

This is the duty of the sangat as well, that you should be asking gurdwaras to uphold this maryada as they uphold gurdwara maryada. Or even approach the jatha themselves and do benti for them to do kirtan in raag.

Once the sangat get tough and stop giving money to the jathas that dont uphold the maryada, they will soon change.

The problem is that we make it too easy for kirtanis to do anything they want.

[mrsingh12 38]

bro I dont really think we should blame the kirtani jathe but more the sangat who becomes addicted to these filmy tunes. Think about, if your a raagi in this day and age, you will, unfortunately, want to sing the way which attracts the sangat. What I have noticed is that when the top "filmy tune" raagis sing raag now and then, it sounds great.

What do we define as a filmy tune btw? Any tune that is non-raag?

P.S. Are you worried like me about how there has been growth in the number of raagis in the UK who are below standard when it comes to singing in tune or knowing more than two taals on the tabla. Really pi**es me off when I listen to Asa Di Vaar at local Gurdwara and the ragi is micky mouse.