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End The Pakhand Of So Called 'agan Bhet' Ceremony


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Whoever lives in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) in Ontario, Canada.... I CHALLENGE YOU to stand up and put an end to this pakhand which has destroyed so much of Sikh historical items in the past 100 years.

It seems as though all of the negative cultural traits of indians come along with them to western countries, including this pakhand.

If you were injured or had a disease, would you throw yourself in a fire?

Even if you were beyond repair, would you throw yourself into a fire?

Check this event happening very soon from now. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

http://akj.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=8143&sid=e6b55ea88fe423479fd48cd07c1d301b

http://gurmatbibek.com/forum/read.php?3,28353

ਪਾਵਨ ਬਿਰਧ ਸਰੂਪਾਂ ਦੀ ਅਗਨ ਭੇਟ ਸੇਵਾ

ਜੁਗੋ ਜੁਗ ਅਟੱਲ ਧੰਨ ਧੰਨ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ
ਦੇ ਪਾਵਨ ਬਿਰਧ ਸਰੂਪ, ਗੁਟਕੇ, ਪੋਥੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਅਗਨ ਭੇਟ ਸੇਵਾ ਜੂਨ ੨੯, ੨੦੧੩ ਦਿਨ ਸ਼ਨੀਵਾਰ ਨੂੰ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਮਿਹਰ ਸਦਕਾ 7130 Healey Rd., Caledon ਵਿਖੇ ਹੋਵੇਗੀ । ਇਹ ਸੇਵਾ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਦੀ ਨਿੱਜੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਹੈ । ਆਉ, ਇਹ ਸੇਵਾ ਸੰਗਤੀ ਰੂਪ ਵਿਚ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਸਹਿਤ ਕਰੀਏ । ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਕਾਲ ਤਖ਼ਤ ਸਾਹਿਬ, ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਤੋਂ ਪਰਵਾਨਿਤ ਸੇਵਾਦਾਰ, ਭਾਈ ਨਰਿੰਦਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ, ਇਹ ਸੇਵਾ ਨਿਭਾਉਣ ਲਈ ਗੋਇੰਦਵਾਲ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਤੋਂ ਟੋਰਾਂਟੋ ਪਹੁੰਚ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ ।
ਜੇਕਰ ਆਪ ਜੀ ਪਾਸ ਪਾਵਨ ਬਿਰਧ ਸਰੂਪ ਹਨ, ਸਾਨੂੰ ਸੰਪਰਕ ਕਰੋ । ਬਿਰਧ ਗੁਟਕੇ, ਪੋਥੀਆਂ, ਸਿੱਖ ਲਿਟਰੇਚਰ, ਜੰਤਰੀਆ, ਕੈਲੰਡਰ, ਅਤੇ ਫੋਟੋਆਂ (ਫਰੇਮ ਬਗੈਰ) ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਵਿਚ ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਦਰਜ਼ ਹੈ, ਜੂਨ 29, 2013 ਨੂੰ ਸਵੇਰੇ 10 ਵਜੇ ਲੈ ਕੇ ਸੇਵਾ ਅਸਥਾਨ (Caledon) ਵਿਖੇ ਪਹੁੰਚੋ ਜੀ । ਧੰਨਵਾਦ ਸਹਿਤ ਦਰਸ਼ਨ ਦੇਣ ਦੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲਤਾ ਕਰਨੀ ਜੀ ।

Sacred Agan Bhet Sewa

It is a humble request to all Sikh Sangat throughout North America to attend the Agan Bhet Sewa {Sacred Cremation Services} of PAAVAN {Sacred} BIRADH SAROOPS {Old unreadable Scriptures} of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Guttka Sahib and Pothi Sahib. This sacred service will be taking place on June 29, 2013 from 11:30am to 2pm.

We request all Sangat to take part in this Sewa and receive Guru Sahib Ji’s blessings.

Please bring any old unreadable Guttka Sahib and Pothi Sahib that you may have on June 29th at 10am. You can also bring along any Sikh literature, photos and calendars that contains Gurbani in it. Please make sure that the frame, glass and any metal where present has been removed.

Notes:
Buses will pick up the Sangat at 10:30am from Malton, Dixie, Rexdale, Scarborough, Dashmesh Darbar, Jot Parkash & Dunwin Gurdwara Sahib
Guru ka Langar will be served
Live Broadcast on Gursewa.Org website and Akal Live Android/iPhone apps
Announcement Video:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=464503113638057
Event Details:
https://www.facebook.com/events/439816069447953/
-One Minute Audio Announcement
http://www.gursewa.org/Sewa-Announcement.mp3
-English Pamphlet
http://www.gursewa.org/Agan-Bhett_Sevaa_June2013_English_Final.pdf
-Panjabi Pamphlet
http://www.gursewa.org/Agan-Bhett_Sevaa_June2013_Panjabi_Final.pdf
-Agan Bhet Sewa/Services Poster
http://www.gursewa.org/Agan-Bhett_Sevaa_Poster_June2013_Final.pdf

Here are some comments from some sensible people:

Re: ਪਾਵਨ ਬਿਰਧ ਸਰੂਪਾਂ ਦੀ ਅਗਨ ਭੇਟ ਸੇਵਾ
June 16, 2013 02:21AM
ਸਾਧ ਸੰਗਤ ਜੀ
ਬੇਨਤੀ ਹੈ ਜੀ ਜੁਗੋ ਜੁਗ ਅਟੱਲ ਧੰਨ ਧੰਨ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਬਿ ਜੀ ਦੇ ਪਾਵਨ ਬਿਰਧ ਸਰੂਪ, ਗੁਟਕੇ, ਪੋਥੀਆਂ ਦੀ ਅਗਨ ਭੇਟ ਸੇਵਾ ਦੀ ਆਢ ਹੇਠ ਪੁਰਾਤਨ ਹੱਥ ਲਿਖਤ ਪਾਵਨ ਸਰੂਪਾਂ ਦਾ ਬਹੁਤ ਨੁਕਸਾਨ ਹੋ ਰਿਹਾ ਹੈ, ਸੰਗਤਾਂ ਸੁਚੇਤ ਰਹਿਣ ਜੀ ।
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa,
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,
Old is gold...as I have discovered when I hold my late parents' Gutka, when all else fails to bring relief to challenge to my soul, as I try achieve kanio tiki path discipline...so I regret greatly donating my father's Larivaar Gurbani after my mother's demise...as I was receiving voice guidance when I made worst decision of my life...so I feel very sad that sanctity of old Gutkey etc is being overlooked, maybe due to being held Gupt Gurmukhs, going to incinerator ji..
bhul chuk muaf
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh
Agree to Bhai Satwinder Pal Singh, we have to be very vigilant about what is going to be agan bhet. In past there were incidents when under the name of such campaigns, good condition saroops which were without Raagmala were burnt w/o any consultation and Guru's fear.
ਖਾਲਸਾ ਜੀਓ ,
ਦਾਸ ਇੰਡੀਆ ਸ਼੍ਰੀ ਗੋਇੰਦਵਾਲ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਇਕ ਵਾਰ ਕੁਝ ਸਿੰਘਾਂ ਨਾਲ ਇਸ ਸੇਵਾ ਵਿਚ ਹਾਜਰੀ ਭਰਨ ਗਿਆ |ਜਿਥੇ ਜਾਕੇ ਅਸੀਂ ਇਹ ਨੋਟ ਕੀਤਾ ਕੀ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਦੇ ਬਹੁਤ ਸਾਰੇ ਲੜੀਵਾਰ ਸਰੂਪ ਉਥੇ ਸੰਸਕਾਰ ਕਰਨ ਲਈ ਪਹੁੰਚੇ ਹੋਏ ਸਨ |ਦੂਜਾ ਉਥੇ ਬੇਅੰਤ ਨਿਤਨੇਮ ਦੇ ਗੁਟਕੇ ਵੀ ਅਗਨ ਭੇਟ ਲਈ ਪੁਜੇ ਹੋਏ ਸਨ |ਜੋ ਤਥ ਸਾਹਮਣੇਆਏ ਉਹ ਬਹੁਤ ਹੈਰਾਨੀ ਜਨਕ ਸਨ |ਲੜੀਵਾਰ ਸਰੂਪ ਇਸ ਕਰਕੇ ਉਥੇ ਪੂਜ ਰਹੇ ਸਨ ਕਿਉਂਕਿ ਬਹੁਤੇ ਗੁਰਦਵਾਰਾ ਸਾਹਿਬਾਨ ਚ ਗ੍ਰੰਥੀ ਸਿੰਘਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਉਹ ਪੜ੍ਹਨੇ ਨਹੀਂ ਆਉਂਦੇ ਇਸ ਲਈ ਇਸ ਤੋਂ ਬਚਣ ਲਈ ਉਹ ਇਹ ਸਰੂਪ ਬਿਰਧ ਕਹਿ ਕੇ ਸੰਸਕਾਰ ਵਾਸਤੇ ਭੇਜ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ |ਤੇ ਗੁਟਕੇ ਬਹੁਤ ਗਿਣਤੀ ਵਿਚ ਸੰਸਕਾਰ ਲਈ ਪੂਜਨੇ ਉਹ ਵੀ ਬਿਲਕੁਲ ਨਵੇਂ ਉਸਦਾ ਕਾਰਣ ਆਪਣੇ ਜਿਆਦਾਤਰ ਲੋਕ ਬਾਹਮਣਾਂ ਜਾਂ ਪੁਛਾਂ ਦੇਣ ਵਾਲਿਆਂ ਜਾਂ ਅਖੌਤੀ ਡੇਰੇ ਵਾਲਿਆਂ ਕੋਲ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ ਤੇ ਉਹ ਤਾੰਤ੍ਰਿਕ ਬਾਹਮਣ ਜਾਂ ਪੁਛਾਂ ਦੇਣ ਜਾਂ ਅਜਕਲ ਦੇ ਚਿੱਟੇ ਬਗਲੇ ਬਾਬੇ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਨੂੰ ਕੋਈ ਨਾ ਕੋਈ ਪਾਠ ਕਰਨ ਨੂੰ ਕਹਿ ਦਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ ਜਿਸ ਕਰਕੇ ਉਹ ਲੋਕ ਗੁਟਕੇ ਖਰੀਦ ਲੈਂਦੇ ਹਨ ਤੇ ਕਾਰਜ ਪੂਰਾ ਹੋ ਗਿਆ ਤਾਂ ਵੀ ਠੀਕ ਨਹੀਂ ਹੋਇਆ ਤਾਂ ਵੀ ਬਾਅਦ ਚ ਸੰਸਕਾਰ ਕਰਨ ਲਈ ਭੇਜ ਦਿੰਦੇ ਹਨ |ਜਦੋਂ ਸੰਸਕਾਰ ਸਮੇਂ ਸਿੰਘਾਂ ਨੇ ਇਸਦਾ ਵਿਰੋਧ ਕੀਤਾ ਤਾਂ ਬਾਬਾ ਨਰਿੰਦਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਨੇ ਸਾਡੇ ਵਲ ਇਸ ਤਰਾਂ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਜਿਦਾਂ ਅਸੀਂ ਕਿਸੇ ਬਾਬਰ ਦੀ ਕੁਲ ਚੋਂ ਹੋਈਏ |
ਭੁਲ ਚੂਕ ਮੁਆਫ

Even if out of 1,000,000 items there is one historical item...it is WORTH IT to stop this 'agan bhet' ceremony....because we cannot put any value on Sikh historical items. Sikh historical items are priceless and can never be re-created/replaced.

Let us not just put an end to this in western countries. Let us put an end to this all over the world. Let us send out complaints to these so called 'leaders' who do these 'agan bhet' ceremonies. Let us send out complaints to SGPC and Akal Takhat Sahib which 'approves' of this.

DO THEY HONESTLY EXPECT US TO BELIEVE THIS......

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਕਾਲ ਤਖ਼ਤ ਸਾਹਿਬ, ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਤੋਂ ਪਰਵਾਨਿਤ ਸੇਵਾਦਾਰ, ਭਾਈ ਨਰਿੰਦਰ ਸਿੰਘ ਜੀ, ਇਹ ਸੇਵਾ ਨਿਭਾਉਣ ਲਈ ਗੋਇੰਦਵਾਲ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਤੋਂ ਟੋਰਾਂਟੋ ਪਹੁੰਚ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ

LET US EXAMINE THEIR SWEET WORDS SOME MORE:

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਕਾਲ ਤਖ਼ਤ ਸਾਹਿਬ, ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਸਰ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਤੋਂ ਪਰਵਾਨਿਤ ਸੇਵਾਦਾਰ ??????

ਇਹ ਸੇਵਾ ਨਿਭਾਉਣ ??????

WHAT SEVA?

MORE LIKE DESTRUCTION......

interview of baba narinder singh ji on agan bhet (sanskar)sewa of birdh swaroop and gutke potheia of shri guru granth sahib ji .baba narinder singh ji done this sewa with the permission of:
1.SGPC,AMRITSAR
2.DSGPC,DELHI
3.SHRI AKAL TAKHAT SAHIB,AMRITSAR
4.TAKHAT SHRI HAZOOR SAHIB ,NADEED

What does it take to throw something into flames to be reduced to ashes?

  • one second
  • ignorance
  • lack of knowledge
  • lazyness
  • many other pathetic traits and characteristics...

What does it take to restore something and give it proper care?

  • time
  • patience
  • knowledge
  • interest
  • passion
  • love
  • care
  • many other virtuous traits and characteristics...

CHECK OUT THIS FOLLOWING BOOK FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE HISTORY BEHIND THIS ANTI-SIKH RITUAL.....CHAPTER 7...STARTING FROM PAGE 125...THE WRITER SEEMS TO POSITIVELY TALK ABOUT THIS RITUAL...HOWEVER..WHEN CRITICALLY ANALYZING IT....WE REALIZE THE REAL DAMAGE BEING DONE TO SIKH COMMUNITY WITH SWEET TALK AND GIVING SO MUCH POWER TO UN-VERIFIED PEOPLE.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=HT8CAqlycW0C&pg=PA138&lpg=PA138&dq=goindval+sahib+agan+bhet&source=bl&ots=6r6OjPqTP_&sig=6ZPS9kANPz618xO-cUglBCvBMNY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=cZ2-UYm-GMHVrgHs1IH4Ag&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=goindval%20sahib%20agan%20bhet&f=false

This type of 'seva' should ONLY be done with utmost careful inspection and only done after approval of a team of historical experts and approval from Panj Piaarey and ONLY when absolutely necessary (eg. non-historical/non-unique item in very bad condition). However...for the past 25+ years, it has been going on very regularly all around the world and in major numbers at the famous 'Goindval Sahib' and around india......all without any credible supervision and without any true expertise.

WHO KNOWS HOW MUCH WE HAVE LOST TO THIS PAKHAND...AND HOW MUCH IS BEING LOST AS I TYPE THIS...

I leave you with the following pictures and a short article...something to ponder upon...

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...A diamond in the rough...

Satigur Meraa Sadaa Sadaa...

Do you want this?

579453_376611135731037_1034465735_n.jpg

Or this? ...

"When Manohar Singh Marco found the Bir early 1960's"

1.Image-1.jpg

"State of the Bir in Pandit OM Parkash's house"

2.Image-2.jpg

"Torn Pages"

3.Image-3.jpg

"The key construed by Manohar Singh Marco to understand the writing style"

4.-image-4.jpg

"Drying of Pages"

5.-Image-5.jpg

"SP Singh and Iqbal Kaur working on matching the broken pages together"

6.Image-6.jpg

"SP Singh working on matching"

7.Image-7.jpg

"After Drying"

8.Image-8.jpg

"Finally, the Anandpuri Bir - a bound Granth"

9.Image-9.jpg

"Detail of the animated handwriting"

10.-Image-10.jpg

11.Image-11.jpg

12.Image-12.jpg

"The new binding"

13.Image-13.jpg

"Digitalization of the Anandpuri Bir"

14.Image-14.jpg

Sikhs have recently realized that our heritage needs to be preserved and our past needs to have a future. Many scholars have conducted numerous studies and undertaken conservational efforts in protecting Sikh relics.

Sadar Manohar Singh Marco is a well known historian and an expert on handwriting styles from the times of the gurus. He always believed that since Guru Gobind Singh ji spent so many years in Sri Poonta Sahib with a court full of scribes and poets some writing of Guru Sahib must have survived. In 1963, Manohar Singh Marco discovered and located the Anandpuri Bir.

This scripture of the Sri Anandpuri Bir was lying amongst some ancient handwritten books in the home of a Pandit Om Prakash of Anandpur Sahib. The physical condition was terrible. The covers were drenched and the binding in tatters. Pandit Om Prakash’s grandfather brought this Granth from Rajput Kanets of Kangra. According to the records of the Municipal Council , Pt. Om Prakash’s grandfather died on 12th August 1900 at the age of 90. Then Pt Om Prakash’s father after taking care of this Granth for 72 years died on 23rd December 1947. Pt Om Prakash not knowing the
importance of the Granth put the Granth Sahib on a shelf along with other astrology books.

After studying the Granth in some detail Manohar Singh Marco discovered that this bir was something that needed scholarly studies in identifying its true glory. After paying the Pandit his asking price, Manohar Singh Marco brought the scattered pages of the Granth back to Delhi. Giani Sharam Singh (Jathedar Keshgarh Sahib), Principal Ganga Singh, Pritam Singh Bedi (Muncipal Commissioner), and five Singh’s accompanied the Bir to Manohar Singh Marco Research Centre in Delhi.

In understanding the Bir many obstacles arose. The first issue is the handwriting of the Scriptures. The Gurmukhi script has a Persian influence making it extremely difficult to read. Manohar Singh Marco then separated the writing, letter by letter and prepared a key of all the letters that were present in the Bir. Using this key to understand the content of the Bir all the pages were collated into the Bir. The Anandpuri Bir was then micro-filmed at the National Physical Laboratory, Pusa. With the assistance of Rupinder Singh Marco, Principal Narinderpal Singh and Manjit Singh Khalsa, all the pages were placed within plastic envelopes and a temporary hardcover was made.

Manohar Singh Marco placed the Anandpuri Bir in a Fireproof Safe with Neem leaves. Neem works in two ways firstly it absorbs the moisture thereby preventing the manuscript from getting damp and secondly neem being bitter ,keeps the insects from biting the pages. With the help of the Delhi Gurdware Parbandak Comittee a pamphlet about the Anandpuri Bir was distributed and the sangat informed. There was a lot of discussion in newspapers and magazines about the Anandpuri Bir.

Manohar Singh Marco passed away on 26th August 2006. His widow Gurdarshan Kaur with the assistance of S. P.Singh (Director Rashtri Sangralia New Delhi), Rupinder Singh Marco, Principal Narinderpal Singh, Manjit Singh Khalsa, Om Prakash Kalra (Rashtri Sangralia, New Delhi),Iqbal Kaur and myself, started the work of the restoration and digitalization of the Anandpuri Bir.

Every page was first cleaned with a mix of Thermal and Bromium Hydroxide, dirt if any was removed very carefully. Then each page was placed in between absorptive papers to allow to dry completely, with this the writing on each page became even clearer, surprisingly there was no damage caused to the page. At the end all the pages were placed in between blotting papers for 2 months. In between the pages and the tissue papers, cellulose acetate work was added and on top of that Acetone was applied with cotton wool. By doing this, the cellulose acetate melted and the blotting paper automatically sealed together. The pages were then placed in between absorptive papers and then pressed. This allowed all the pages to be crease free. To prevent any
discrepancies from appearing again the pages were kept pressed for one week. After this the binding of the Bir was bound once again to bring it back to its glory of being a Granth. To make the spine of the Bir, medium weight paper and the pages of the Bir were bound with Fevicol (special rubber glue dissolved in water). To make the cover embroiled cotton cloth and cardboard with polyfill sheet sandwiched in between was used. After the Bir binding was complete the full digitalization took into effect where each page was photographed at a 18 sec shutter F32 f-stop along with some microscopic scanning at 400x to get a closer look at the handwriting styles. Throughout this project, the Marco Foundation were steadfast in keeping full respect of the Bir.


Working on various manuscripts over time I normally come across handwritings that are very neatly done mainly by a ‘Lakhri’ (scribe). Unfolding the Anandpuri Bir you can see this is not the work of a Scribe. The long flowing animated strokes show the work of a true scholar. The Marco Foundation has done an excellent and professional job in persevering such an amazing manuscript like the Anadpuri Bir. Our heritage is a concern to us its validity, its existence in years to come. Yet working with the Marco family I have hope for our heritage. The scientific methods, theories and examples are there for us to implement them. Let’s use them to give our history a future.

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Vaheguru ji ka khalsa Vaheguru ji ki Fateh I am utterly blown away, shocked and greatly hurt by this particular thread discussing the Agan Bhet sewa that will be taking place in Toronto this June.

I believe never, preserve them instead in sikh heritage center and digitized them as well as you mentioned. This form of satkar and preservation in sikh heritage center also will remind generation and

Whoever lives in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) in Ontario, Canada.... I CHALLENGE YOU to stand up and put an end to this pakhand which has destroyed so much of Sikh historical items in the past 100 y

Dasamsarblohgranth ji

You have been advised about blasphemous role of manohar singh marco on issue of dasam granth sahib earlier.You also have been told that Manohar singh has not seen anandpuri beer leave aside binding it.You wrote back that time you were not knowing this as you copy pasted it.

I fail to understand why you are posting same thing second time. Anandpuri beer was never in bad condition as shown by cheat marco. Nobody knows where is anadpuri beer now?It was always kept in secret by a private house.

in 1960s this beer was in Bombay held by a singh who was personally known to me,Beofre that beer was in Amritsar and Dr balbir singh younger brother of Bhai veer singh has written a long note on it as he had its darshan. That note is with me gifted by a researcher friend. Whom marco, a gurnindak, is bluffing here.

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I was thinking about that too GPS Veer Jee before I posted.

But I would rather post that showing the restoration and countless hours and effort it takes to restore something and the beautiful end result rather than showing nothing.

And I know........I know...... this is not the Dasam Granth Anandpuri Bir.......however.....that doesn't reduce this Granth's importance.

Nor does it reduce the care, patience and other virtues needed to do such a restoration job.

If this was found by these so called 'agan bhet' service providers of today...most likely it would have ended up in the flames.

Like you said, Marco "displayed love for sikhi by writing Chithian Sikhan Diyan Likh Satgur Wal Payian" and then on the other hand he wrote against Dasam Granth Sahib.

I know, we've talked about Marco's shadyness and what not...but let's leave that out of this conversation.

What I was trying to show is the dramatic and amazing results of having virtues and properly restoring and taking care of literature.

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I was thinking about that too GPS Veer Jee before I posted.

But I would rather post that showing the restoration and countless hours and effort it takes to restore something and the beautiful end result rather than showing nothing.

And I know........I know...... this is not the Dasam Granth Anandpuri Bir.......however.....that doesn't reduce this Granth's importance.

Nor does it reduce the care, patience and other virtues needed to do such a restoration job.

If this was found by these so called 'agan bhet' service providers of today...most likely it would have ended up in the flames.

Like you said, Marco "displayed love for sikhi by writing Chithian Sikhan Diyan Likh Satgur Wal Payian" and then on the other hand he wrote against Dasam Granth Sahib.

I know, we've talked about Marco's shadyness and what not...but let's leave that out of this conversation.

What I was trying to show is the dramatic and amazing results of having virtues and properly restoring and taking care of literature.

But what is being shown is not truthful representation.

Moreover there is a big difference between a manuscript and its copies. Copies when they age i find nothing wrong in consigning those to flames.

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If The Oxford English Dictionary were looking for a newer definition for the word 'irony' they could do worse than compare Sikhism and Hinduism.

The ansestors of Sikhs left Hinduism partly because that faith was full to the brim with meaningless rituals, which the Sikhs abhored.

Fast forward 300 years and we're at the stage where it is possible for a Sikh to leave Sikhism and embrace Hinduism because Sikhism seems to be full of riuals and, in contrast, Hinduism seems to have very few in comparison.

Rituals rituals ritiuals. What is a non-Sikh supposed to make of it all ? He'll read about our history....how we started as an antidote to rituals....and he'll see how today we've got so many rituals we've got them coming out of our ears. We have become the world's kings of rituals.

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If The Oxford English Dictionary were looking for a newer definition for the word 'irony' they could do worse than compare Sikhism and Hinduism.

The ansestors of Sikhs left Hinduism partly because that faith was full to the brim with meaningless rituals, which the Sikhs abhored.

Fast forward 300 years and we're at the stage where it is possible for a Sikh to leave Sikhism and embrace Hinduism because Sikhism seems to be full of riuals and, in contrast, Hinduism seems to have very few in comparison.

Rituals rituals ritiuals. What is a non-Sikh supposed to make of it all ? He'll read about our history....how we started as an antidote to rituals....and he'll see how today we've got so many rituals we've got them coming out of our ears. We have become the world's kings of rituals.

Our faith is a unique path, make no bones about it, but for the uninformed or rather less aware populations in the West, Sikhi should've been the one faith that provided the true answers in much the same way Westerners admire and respect Buddhism as a chilled-out, ritual-lite path to enlightenment and salvation.

Unfortunately I get the impression our faith is being bracketed with the likes of militant Islam, nevermind the old ways of Hinduism. Whenever you hear media-trained Hindu scholars being interviewed, they're very clever in emphasising that Hinduism can never be described as a religion - it is more a philosophy for life. That's the kind of non-committal, vague, non-threatening talk Godless westerners like these days, mostly due to being scared out of their pants by the apparent threat of Islam. :giggle:

All the while our religious leadership are mired in Panjabi politics, and it seems Sikhi can't be extricated from the grasp of such people.

As for the topic at hand I sincerely believe if a pothi or Gutka sahib can be repaired it should be. Of course it's going to be a lot of work, and if it means shelling out a few pounds or dollars so a professional Singh or Singhni with the relevant skills can undertake the job then why not? It's only when the relevant bir or Gutka are beyond repair should this agan bhet ceremony be conducted imo.

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Finally something we can agree on dasamsarbloh veer. I have been also by maharaj kirpa vehemently writing against agan bhet ceremony in various threads lately. I don't care which group people belong to, i dont care which sant, bhai, baba, jathedar have told you so, agan bhet of berd saroop is huge travesty maha beadhi attrocity you can commit as a sikh towards your guru ( (leaving historical preservation aside).


I also think burning berdh guru sahib saroops alive in agan bhet are far more severe, maha beadhi atrocities any sikh could commit (based on living guru status) against gurbani and sri guru granth sahib ji, regardless of their intentions, they should come clean before favoring one what could be perceived as maha beadhi. If you are against beadhi, be against all forms of beadhi not just one, everyone should put their what sant said so (be it sant jarnail singh ji or whoever) or what their group said so aside and focus on guru maharaj saroop , if you are for burning beerd guru sahib(living jot) alive than lets see when tables are turned- sign a waiver- let your next of kin burn you alive when you are old..lets see how you feel to be burned alive...some of people won't sign any waivers, because they rather see guru sahib saroop (who is alive never gets born, die or be old) being burned alive than themselves..utter shame, mockery of any anakh, utter maha beadhi, utter travesty, utter atrocities done against guru sahib by sikhs themselves then these same people talking about saving another honors of guru sahib

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I will create petition on this to create awareness, knowledge is power..i will post the text here for any grammatical correction here before making an petition..hopefully everyone signs despite of their group beliefs, Stopping guru to be burned alive should be number priority for every sikh despite of their group or personal beleifs.

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We should have sikh hertiage center to preserve them..we have british library preserved many puratan manuscripts with utmost satkar... is state of panth has gone so low that we need to now get tips from british library how to perserve old saroops? really?

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I thought we are not talking about manuscripts.No one advocates that manuscripts should be agan bhet.

We are talking about copies of saroops.There is a big difference between manuscripts and printed versions.

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We are talking about both as agan bhet are being performed on both:

Anyway here is rough draft of petition. I ask my brothers to make grammatical correction for me if there is any so i can go ahead create a peaceful petition to create awareness among sikhs:

This petition is to create awareness against practice of "Agan Bhet of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, old gutkas, old sikh manuscripts'. Agan bhet is an ritual where old saroops are burned to ensure old saroop does not get further deteriorated and to ensure sanctity of old saroop However, according to very definition of sri guru granth sahib ji being " alive living guru" we feel literal process of burning sargun saroop of sri guru granth sahib ji alive defeats the very purpose of keeping sanctity and is on clash course with very definition of sri guru granth sahib ji being alive living guru. We ask sikhs to consider sri guru granth sahib ji as literal living guru/being and to ask themselves, if human being gets old, does their next of kin burn them alive? If answer is no, why should we hold such rules for our living guru/being sri guru granth sahib ji?
We also ask our Sikh leaders to create a Sikh heritage centers where old saroops can be preserved with utmost satkar than simply burning the saroops and destroying our own enrich heritage.
Lets all come forward and be united despite of our differences and stand against practice of agan bhet towards all sikh manuscripts/scriptures- gutkas, senchiya, saroop of sri guru granth sahib ji regardless if its laridvar or padched format, regardless if it has ragmalla or not regardless if its old or new with unfortunate occurrences.
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Wahegurujikakhalsawahegurujikifateh

This petition is to create awareness against the practice of "Agan Bhet" of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, old Gutka/Pothi Sahibs and Old Sikh Manuscripts. "Agan Bhet" is a ritual where old saroops are burnt to ensure according to some individuals that they don't deteriorate further and to uphold their sanctity.

Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is Jaagdi jot - The Living Guru. We therefore feel that the act of burning alive Sargun Saroops of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj defeats the very purpose of upholding their sanctity and contradicts their very definition - Jaagdi jot.

We ask Sikhs to consider Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj sahib as the living Guru and to ask themselves - When a human being gets old do their sons and daughters burn them alive? If the answer is no then why do we want to burn our beloved Satguruji?

We also ask our Sikh leaders to create Sikh Heritage Centres where old saroops can be preserved with utmost satkar. The practise of burning saroops and destroying our own rich heritage has gone on for too long and must be stopped.

Let us all come forward and be united. Let us put down our own individual differences and stand united - hand in hand - against the practice of Agan Bhet towards all Sikh Scriptures - Gutka Sahibs, Pothi Sahibs, Senchiyas, and Saroops of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj regardless of whether it is in laridvar or padched format, regardless of whether it has Raagmala or not, and regardless of whether its old or new with unfortunate occurrences.

Wahegurujikakhalsawahegurujikifateh

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