Used By A Sikh Guy

[Mehtab Singh]

Show me where Gurbani says its ok to court someone if you are not indulging in a physical relationship.

[DalbirSingh]

Show me where it doesn't say that? If you are going to give quotes on kaam please understand that's talking about lust, if you are going to give dasam bani where guru tegh bahadur says don't even go to a woman's bed in your dreams, you do realise courtship is not sex again. There is a difference between love, truly caring for someone and lust where you greed for their flesh in an animalistic fashion. But maybe you are right, Diya should first convert to sikhism read gurbani and get a good rishta, even though converts don't have it easy finding a rishta especially those who are going to be labelled as used goods. But maybe some glimmer of miracle will shine a true sikh will accept her.

[isingh1699]

^Mehtab Veerji then how did u get married? I ask that respectfully as your younger Veer.

How long is the time limit of being able to get to know someone on a purely conversational level prior to marriage?

In Diya's case I believe that the fault was the guy's but Dalbir Singh Ji is taking about without any physical intimacy taking place.

[Mehtab Singh]

Show me where it doesn't say that? If you are going to give quotes on kaam please understand that's talking about lust, if you are going to give dasam bani where guru tegh bahadur says don't even go to a woman's bed in your dreams, you do realise courtship is not sex again. There is a difference between love, truly caring for someone and lust where you greed for their flesh in an animalistic fashion. But maybe you are right, Diya should first convert to sikhism read gurbani and get a good rishta, even though converts don't have it easy finding a rishta especially those who are going to be labelled as used goods. But maybe some glimmer of miracle will shine a true sikh will accept her.

You asked a question and answered it yourself. Thanks. And who told you its hard for converts to find a rishta? Are you a convert?

^Mehtab Veerji then how did u get married? I ask that respectfully as your younger Veer.

As your elder veer I suggest you to wait and find out once your time comes :D

[isingh1699]

As your elder veer I suggest you to wait and find out once your time comes :D

Ok Veerji but I don't think in 2013 we can expect everyone outside of India to get an arranged marriage.

And there is a disturbing correlation between arranged marriage and biraderi.

For example some cultures marry their cousins purely to keep their so-called caste's "purity".

Even via the arranged marriaged route in India i think it is rare to arrive at marriage without courtship nowadays (non-sexual).

[Mehtab Singh]

Ok Veerji but I don't think in 2013 we can expect everyone outside of India to get an arranged marriage.

And there is a disturbing correlation between arranged marriage + biraderi (for example some cultures marry cousins to keep caste purity).

And even via the arranged marriaged route in India i think it is rare to arrive at marriage without courtship nowadays (non-physical).

That is your opinion veeray, and I respect it even though I may not agree with it

[luckysingh99]

Ok Veerji but I don't think in 2013 we can expect everyone outside of India to get an arranged marriage.

And there is a disturbing correlation between arranged marriage and biraderi.

For example some cultures marry their cousins purely to keep their so-called caste's "purity".

Even via the arranged marriaged route in India i think it is rare to arrive at marriage without courtship nowadays (non-sexual).

You have to wait and let it happen as you wisen up.

Don't be under the impression that all courtships involve sexual relations !!

I have been married to my true love for 16 years now and after so many years we actually feel 'spiritual' love- this is difficult to explain if you haven't experienced it.

We were not arranged and we dated for over a year before we got married. AND believe me, there was NO sexual relations to any degree.. No way !!

We are both in the same age group and both born and raised in UK as quite modern Punjabis.

I think that the youger lot watch or are influenced by too much Bollywood, And this is real bad. Personally, I don't even have any of the channels and keep my kids away from that rubbish.

[DalbirSingh]

^Mehtab Veerji then how did u get married? I ask that respectfully as your younger Veer.

How long is the time limit of being able to get to know someone on a purely conversational level prior to marriage?

In Diya's case I believe that the fault was the guy's but Dalbir Singh Ji is taking about without any physical intimacy taking place.

I don't think you can quantify it, for some one meeting is enough for engagement in arranged marriages. I would say at least 6 months but it depends how much time you get to spend to actually know the person you might know them sooner or later, before you commit for life.

Even a chaperoned date is still courtship if the girls parents sit in between or boys or mutual. I don't think people should jump straight into engagements it can be a mistake if you don't know the person well enough. Some people don't have the time, I think you should make some time before you commit your life away to a stranger, that goes for both guys and girls.

[isingh1699]

You have to wait and let it happen as you wisen up.

Don't be under the impression that all courtships involve sexual relations !!

I have been married to my true love for 16 years now and after so many years we actually feel 'spiritual' love- this is difficult to explain if you haven't experienced it.

We were not arranged and we dated for over a year before we got married. AND believe me, there was NO sexual relations to any degree.. No way !!

We are both in the same age group and both born and raised in UK as quite modern Punjabis.

I think that the youger lot watch or are influenced by too much Bollywood, And this is real bad. Personally, I don't even have any of the channels and keep my kids away from that rubbish.

Lucky Veerji i totally agree with you. This is the point that I believe Dalbir Singh Veerji was also making ... that it is possible to get to know someone (with a view to deciding upon marriage) without any physical relations taking place. To read that u been happily married for 16years is just awesome. You and Proactive Veerji are two of the wise elders of the forum that the rest of us can learn a lot from and I certainly have reading your posts.

I don't think you can quantify it, for some one meeting is enough for engagement in arranged marriages. I would say at least 6 months but it depends how much time you get to spend to actually know the person you might know them sooner or later, before you commit for life.

Even a chaperoned date is still courtship if the girls parents sit in between or boys or mutual. I don't think people should jump straight into engagements it can be a mistake if you don't know the person well enough. Some people don't have the time, I think you should make some time before you commit your life away to a stranger, that goes for both guys and girls.

I totally agree with you Dalbir Singh Ji. This concept that people cannot try to understand the spiritual level of their prospective future spouse is something that surprises me - particularly given that Sikhs are not meant to engage in physical relations before marriage (which we all agree is as per Gurmat). As you rightly say, even a chaperoned date is nevertheless a form of courtship and as we all know even arranged marriages in India involve courtship prior to the marriage nowadays. I genuinely am confused as to how two Sikhs in the Diaspora in the modern age would marry for sensible reasons without getting to know a bit about the other (obviously within the boundary of not engaging in any physical relations prior to marriage).

[TheFancyBanana]

Not getting to know the person before you get married is like buying a car without going for a test drive. You won't know how the car feels and drives unless you test it out. In the same way, getting to know someone before you commit to them is important. No one wants to spend their entire life with a partner who they share nothing in common with.