Why Don't We Have A Gurdwara With Dasam Granth Sahibji Parkash In Ontario?

[jaspreet1]

I understand that Gurbani does not pray to the avtars but has immense respect for them and explains their dharmic duties bestowed by Sadashiv Maharaj.

I would love to see this immense respect Gurbani has for Devi and Devta that Gurbani calls low as ants.

[RanaBhaaratVaasi]

If devi devta are ants then were are mere particles of dust. You must be blind to the quotes that say the devi devtay are servants of god. You and me are not even close to that. Who are you to judge them? You think because the Guru calls someone ants that you can also call them ants? They are higher powers than us according to the will of god. God made Durga: "thayheen Durga saajkay dentaan da naas karaya". God made them special, unlike me and you. We are keeray compared to devi devtay as they are keeray compared to Sadashiv/Bhagauti.

[jaspreet1]

If devi devta are ants then were are mere particles of dust. You must be blind to the quotes that say the devi devtay are servants of god. You and me are not even close to that. Who are you to judge them? You think because the Guru calls someone ants that you can also call them ants? They are higher powers than us according to the will of god. God made Durga: "thayheen Durga saajkay dentaan da naas karaya". God made them special, unlike me and you. We are keeray compared to devi devtay as they are keeray compared to Sadashiv/Bhagauti.

A lot of huffing and puffing, but nothing materialized. You made the claim that Gurbani has immense respect for devi and devta, but you have not presented a single pankti.

"thayheen Durga saajkay dentaan da naas karaya"

The above comes in Chandi di Vaar and is not giving immense respect to Durga. It is actually saying if you read the whole pauri that these devis and devta (including durga) received their strength from Vaheguru. After creating the playing field he got these devta and devis in a fight with demons. Indra lost against the demons. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji is telling what actually happened and not the lies told by Vedant scriptures. Guru Sahib is setting the record straight that these devis and devta are nothing special.

Here is the link if anyone is interested

http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&p=298

You come from a Hindu background and will favor these devi and devta just as a Muslim will favor Muhammad. One thing is very clear in Gurbani. Whether that be Aad Granth or Dasam Granth, these devi and devta were sent by Vaheguru to spread dharm, but they got lost in their own pride and started teaching people they are to be worshipped and are the One Supreme Being. They taught the people how to worship them, but never told the people how to worship Akal Purakh. And today these devi and devta are begging at the feet of Vaheguru's Bhagats to attain liberation.

If these devis and devta actually taught according to Gurbani. Then they would be special and immense respect would be given to them as immense respect is given to Bhagat Prahlaad ji. Bhagat ji is special not these devi devta. Bhagat Dhanna Jatt ji is special, but not these devi devta. Tav Parsad Swaiyve very clearly state Vaheguru does not care about how big of an army or powers (as devi and devta had), or how many battles you have won. The immense respect comes from following the instructions of Vaheguru.

[RanaBhaaratVaasi]

You have been on this site for how long? And you have never come across the angs in GGSji where Guru Sahib says God came in the form of Krishan Bhagwanji? I shouldnt hve to tell you the quotes and lines as there are people on this site like neosingh and others who have mentioned what I did numerous times. And i already know Durga was made (saajkay) by Sadashiv. Thats the whole point of the line... They were made deliberately by God, not like me and you. I really dont see how you can degrade higher beings by quoting the Guru as if you hold the same authority.

[panthicunity]

A hindu friend of mine once remarked SGGS is written in praise of Rama and Krishna - here are two shabads to debunk this myth - first is by bhagat namdev and second by Guru Nanak .

ਆਜੁ ਨਾਮੇ ਬੀਠਲੁ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਮੂਰਖ ਕੋ ਸਮਝਾਊ ਰੇ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Today, Naam Dayv saw the Lord, and so I will instruct the ignorant. ||Pause||
ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਗਾਇਤ੍ਰੀ ਲੋਧੇ ਕਾ ਖੇਤੁ ਖਾਤੀ ਥੀ ॥
O Pandit, O religious scholar, your Gayatri was grazing in the fields.
ਲੈ ਕਰਿ ਠੇਗਾ ਟਗਰੀ ਤੋਰੀ ਲਾਂਗਤ ਲਾਂਗਤ ਜਾਤੀ ਥੀ ॥੧॥
Taking a stick, the farmer broke its leg, and now it walks with a limp. ||1||
ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੁਮਰਾ ਮਹਾਦੇਉ ਧਉਲੇ ਬਲਦ ਚੜਿਆ ਆਵਤੁ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਥਾ ॥
O Pandit, I saw your great god Shiva, riding along on a white bull.
ਮੋਦੀ ਕੇ ਘਰ ਖਾਣਾ ਪਾਕਾ ਵਾ ਕਾ ਲੜਕਾ ਮਾਰਿਆ ਥਾ ॥੨॥
In the merchant's house, a banquet was prepared for him - he killed the merchant's son. ||2||

ਪਾਂਡੇ ਤੁਮਰਾ ਰਾਮਚੰਦੁ ਸੋ ਭੀ ਆਵਤੁ ਦੇਖਿਆ ਥਾ ॥
O Pandit, I saw your Raam Chand coming too
ਰਾਵਨ ਸੇਤੀ ਸਰਬਰ ਹੋਈ ਘਰ ਕੀ ਜੋਇ ਗਵਾਈ ਥੀ ॥੩॥
; he lost his wife, fighting a war against Raawan. ||3||
ਹਿੰਦੂ ਅੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਤੁਰਕੂ ਕਾਣਾ ॥
The Hindu is sightless; the Muslim has only one eye.
ਦੁਹਾਂ ਤੇ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥
The spiritual teacher is wiser than both of them.
ਹਿੰਦੂ ਪੂਜੈ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਮੁਸਲਮਾਣੁ ਮਸੀਤਿ ॥
The Hindu worships at the temple, the Muslim at the mosque.
ਨਾਮੇ ਸੋਈ ਸੇਵਿਆ ਜਹ ਦੇਹੁਰਾ ਨ ਮਸੀਤਿ ॥੪॥੩॥੭॥
Naam Dayv serves that Lord, who is not limited to either the temple or the mosque. ||4||3||7||





ਆਸਾ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
Aasaa, First Mehl:
ਪਉਣੁ ਉਪਾਇ ਧਰੀ ਸਭ ਧਰਤੀ ਜਲ ਅਗਨੀ ਕਾ ਬੰਧੁ ਕੀਆ ॥
He created the air, and He supports the whole world; he bound water and fire together.
ਅੰਧੁਲੈ ਦਹਸਿਰਿ ਮੂੰਡੁ ਕਟਾਇਆ ਰਾਵਣੁ ਮਾਰਿ ਕਿਆ ਵਡਾ ਭਇਆ ॥੧॥
The blind, ten-headed Raavan had his heads cut off, but what greatness was obtained by killing him? ||1||
ਕਿਆ ਉਪਮਾ ਤੇਰੀ ਆਖੀ ਜਾਇ ॥
What Glories of Yours can be chanted?
ਤੂੰ ਸਰਬੇ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
You are totally pervading everywhere; You love and cherish all. ||1||Pause||
ਜੀਅ ਉਪਾਇ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਹਥਿ ਕੀਨੀ ਕਾਲੀ ਨਥਿ ਕਿਆ ਵਡਾ ਭਇਆ ॥
You created all beings, and You hold the world in Your Hands; what greatness is it to put a ring in the nose of the black cobra, as Krishna did?
ਕਿਸੁ ਤੂੰ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਜੋਰੂ ਕਉਣ ਕਹੀਐ ਸਰਬ ਨਿਰੰਤਰਿ ਰਵਿ ਰਹਿਆ ॥੨॥
Whose Husband are You? Who is Your wife? You are subtly diffused and pervading in all. ||2||
ਨਾਲਿ ਕੁਟੰਬੁ ਸਾਥਿ ਵਰਦਾਤਾ ਬ੍ਰਹਮਾ ਭਾਲਣ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਗਇਆ ॥
Brahma, the bestower of blessings, entered the stem of the lotus, with his relatives, to find the extent of the universe.
ਆਗੈ ਅੰਤੁ ਨ ਪਾਇਓ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਕੰਸੁ ਛੇਦਿ ਕਿਆ ਵਡਾ ਭਇਆ ॥੩॥
Proceeding on, he could not find its limits; what glory was obtained by killing Kansa, the king? ||3||
ਰਤਨ ਉਪਾਇ ਧਰੇ ਖੀਰੁ ਮਥਿਆ ਹੋਰਿ ਭਖਲਾਏ ਜਿ ਅਸੀ ਕੀਆ ॥
The jewels were produced and brought forth by churning the ocean of milk. The other gods proclaimed "We are the ones who did this!"



Further there are other sloks like

"Devi deva poojiye kya mango kya dey"

"thakur chor cheri ko dhyave"

[RanaBhaaratVaasi]

This doesnt change the fact thag Guru Sahib has also spoken of Krishan Bhagwanji as God. All it does is show that Gurbani is complicated. And if the Gurus did not respect Devis then why would Pehli Paatshahi name his skn Laxmi? Let me guess.... That name Laxmi is referring to something or someone else riggt? Or he named his son after money and not the Devi?

[panthicunity]

veer ranjodh singh do you seriously believe rama's first fighting and later abondoning his pregnant wife a godly act

or krishna's stealing clothes of bathing young women ?

or shiva's killing modi's son .... I can go on and on

quote me where bani says krishna was god - bani says god never comes in human forms - parmatma is ajooni - just coz neo singh has an opinion on things doesnt it a fact.

also why do we need devi devtas when we can meditate on akaal purakh himself !

[Jonny101]

You have been on this site for how long? And you have never come across the angs in GGSji where Guru Sahib says God came in the form of Krishan Bhagwanji? I shouldnt hve to tell you the quotes and lines as there are people on this site like neosingh and others who have mentioned what I did numerous times. And i already know Durga was made (saajkay) by Sadashiv. Thats the whole point of the line... They were made deliberately by God, not like me and you. I really dont see how you can degrade higher beings by quoting the Guru as if you hold the same authority.

RanaJodh Singh Jee, No doubt Krishan was a very powerful being. But to understand the Sikh view of Krishan from the point of view of Bani one needs to look no further from Chandi Di Vaar in Dasam Granth. Guru Jee says:

ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਲੈ ਕੰਸੁ ਕੇਸੀ ਪਕੜਿ ਗਿਰਾਇਆ ॥

Oh Vaheguru, it is only because of your bestowed strength that Krishan was able to grab Kans by the hair and throw him.

Guru Jee also says:

ਤੈਥੋਂ ਹੀ ਬਲੁ ਰਾਮ ਲੈ ਨਾਲ ਬਾਣਾ ਦਹਸਿਰੁ ਘਾਇਆ ॥

Meaning, it is only because of your bestowed strength that Raam was able to kill Ravan with arrows.

All the Rakshas that Krishan and Raam killed was not their doing. It was Vaheguru who did it by working through them. But the credit of all these heroic deeds went to Krishan and Raam and so they were worshiped instead of Vaheguru. This is why I feel when Gurbani uses terms like Madhusudhan or Murari it is not referring to Krishan but to Vaheguru who indeed was the real power which killed the Rakshas Mor and Madhu through Krishan. So for us Murari and Madhusudan titles rightfully belong to Vaheguru.

In Guru Granth Sahib, Guru jee writes that even Harnaksh was killed by Vaheguru because he was about to killed Bhagat Prahladh. Or when Draupadhi was being disrobed, it was Vaheguru who had saved her honour when she began to do Simran with full Shardha. But again, these heroic deeds were attributed to Avtars of Vishnu. In Sri Dasam Granth, Vaheguru Himself says(Akal Purkh Baach) he had created Shiv, Vishnu and Brahma, the Devi Devtas and even the Rakshas/Asur.

But people in India forgot the real creator(Kartar) and began to worship His creation(Shiv and Vishnu). From time to time, with the Kripa of Vaheguru Bhagats such as Prahladh and Dhru would recognize the real power behind these creations and began to worship Vaheguru instead of the creation.

[RanaBhaaratVaasi]

I understand that the devi devtay were made the sadashiv but i still believe the gurus give respect to them because then they wouldnt say god acted through them. There is a quote that is explicitly praising krishan bhagwan and you cant be loke : "oh no forget that quote and place it under these quotes that seem to dis the devi devte" because your telling me to place a hierarchy on gurbani. You cant say one quote is more importat than the other. So if you think those quotes are in a hierarchy then your one basically saying there is a paradox in gurbani that is self contradictory. There is something that must explain the paradox of why one guru praises krishan and one seems to dis him. The only person on this site that has resolved this paradox without placing a hierarchy on gurbani lines and without saying gurbani is contradictory is neosingh. Im tired of people trying to say one ang is more valuable than anoter.

[Jonny101]

I understand that the devi devtay were made the sadashiv but i still believe the gurus give respect to them because then they wouldnt say god acted through them. There is a quote that is explicitly praising krishan bhagwan and you cant be loke : "oh no forget that quote and place it under these quotes that seem to dis the devi devte" because your telling me to place a hierarchy on gurbani. You cant say one quote is more importat than the other. So if you think those quotes are in a hierarchy then your one basically saying there is a paradox in gurbani that is self contradictory. There is something that must explain the paradox of why one guru praises krishan and one seems to dis him. The only person on this site that has resolved this paradox without placing a hierarchy on gurbani lines and without saying gurbani is contradictory is neosingh. Im tired of people trying to say one ang is more valuable than anoter.

I agree that one should not disrespect any of the Avtars. They were spiritually elevated beings and they did good things and deserve respect for that. But pooja should only be of Akal. By worshiping the Avtars one can only go as far as Gian Khand where the Avtars are located. In fact Gurbani(Japji Sahib) states in Gian Khand there are many Krishans and Shivs(Kete Kaan Mahesh). If your goal is Gian Khand where Vaikunth is located then it is okay. But if one wants to go to Sach Khand then Naam Simran and Kirtan of Vaheguru is essential.