Does Karma Move To Your Children?

[singhbj singh]

Bhaji can i ask if you are not into sakhis, sants or gianis, how do you get your information?

in reply to the above, i dont know how to approach it, because you are not into sakhis, sants or gianis, so if you let me know how you get your knowledge of gurmat, i may be able to use that to help my reply.

Sakhis can only be verified by reading Gurbani.

Sants or Giani's are too prone to make mistakes as per Gurbani.

ਗੁਰ ਕਾ ਸਬਦੁ ਕਾਟੈ ਕੋਟਿ ਕਰਮ ॥੩॥੧॥: Gur ka Shabad kaatai koti karam ||3||1||: The Guru's Shabad eradicates millions of (past bad) Karma ||3||1|| (sggs 1195).

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ਕਉਨ ਕੋ ਕਲੰਕੁ ਰਹਿਓ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਲੇਤ ਹੀ ॥

Koun Ko Kalank Rehiou Raam Naam Laeth Hee ||

कउन को कलंकु रहिओ राम नामु लेत ही ॥

Whose blemishes remain, when one chants the Lord's Name?

ਪਤਿਤ ਪਵਿਤ ਭਏ ਰਾਮੁ ਕਹਤ ਹੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Pathith Pavith Bheae Raam Kehath Hee ||1|| Rehaao ||

पतित पवित भए रामु कहत ही ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

Sinners become pure, chanting the Lord's Name. ||1||Pause||

10 ਟੋਡੀ (ਭ. ਨਾਮਦੇਵ) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੭੧੮ ਪੰ. ੧੩

Raag Todee Bhagat Namdev Page:718 Line: 13

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Bhagat Sadhna ji's humble prayer is a perfect example that Almighty can remove Karmic debt.

http://searchgurbani.com/scriptures/ggs_shabad/3219/line/11

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ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰੀ ਜਗਜੀਵਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਉਰਿ ਧਾਰਿਓ ਮਨ ਮਾਝਾ ॥

Jin Ko Kirapaa Karee Jagajeevan Har Our Dhhaariou Man Maajhaa ||

जिन कउ क्रिपा करी जगजीवनि हरि उरि धारिओ मन माझा ॥

Those, unto whom the Lord, the Life of the world, has shown Mercy, enshrine Him within their hearts, and cherish Him in their minds.

ਧਰਮ ਰਾਇ ਦਰਿ ਕਾਗਦ ਫਾਰੇ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਲੇਖਾ ਸਮਝਾ ॥੪॥੫॥

Dhharam Raae Dhar Kaagadh Faarae Jan Naanak Laekhaa Samajhaa ||4||5||

धरम राइ दरि कागद फारे जन नानक लेखा समझा ॥४॥५॥

The Righteous Judge of Dharma, in the Court of the Lord, has torn up my papers; servant Nanak's account has been settled. ||4||5||

11 ਜੈਤਸਰੀ (ਮ: ੪) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੬੯੮ ਪੰ. ੧

Raag Jaitsiri Guru Ram Das Page:698 Line: 1

[chatanga]

Sakhis can only be verified by reading Gurbani.

Sants or Giani's are too prone to make mistakes as per Gurbani.

Those shabads you posted, who did the translations to them?

Why did you post the translations here?

[singhbj singh]

There are many verses in Gurbani that talk about Kul (ancestry).

Positive example -

ਸਾਹਿਬ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੇਵਕੁ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰੈ ॥

Saahib Bhaavai Saevak Saevaa Karai ||

साहिब भावै सेवकु सेवा करै ॥

When it pleases our Lord and Master, His servant serves Him.

2 ਬਸੰਤੁ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੧੭੦ ਪੰ. ੧੩

Raag Basant Guru Amar Das Page:1170 Line: 13

ਜੀਵਤੁ ਮਰੈ ਸਭਿ ਕੁਲ ਉਧਰੈ ॥੧॥

Jeevath Marai Sabh Kul Oudhharai ||1||

जीवतु मरै सभि कुल उधरै ॥१॥

He remains dead while yet alive, and redeems all his ancestors. ||1||

3 ਬਸੰਤੁ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੧੭੦ ਪੰ. ੧੩

Raag Basant Guru Amar Das Page:1170 Line: 13

Negative example -

ਇਕਿ ਕੂੜਿ ਲਾਗੇ ਕੂੜੇ ਫਲ ਪਾਏ ॥

Eik Koorr Laagae Koorrae Fal Paaeae ||

इकि कूड़ि लागे कूड़े फल पाए ॥

Some are stuck in falsehood, and false are the rewards they receive.

19 ਮਾਝ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪ ਪੰ. ੧

Raag Maajh Guru Amar Das Page:124 Line: 1

ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਏ ॥

Dhoojai Bhaae Birathhaa Janam Gavaaeae ||

दूजै भाइ बिरथा जनमु गवाए ॥

In love with duality, they waste away their lives in vain.

20 ਮਾਝ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪ ਪੰ. ੧

Raag Maajh Guru Amar Das Page:124 Line: 1

ਆਪਿ ਡੁਬੇ ਸਗਲੇ ਕੁਲ ਡੋਬੇ ਕੂੜੁ ਬੋਲਿ ਬਿਖੁ ਖਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੬॥

Aap Ddubae Sagalae Kul Ddobae Koorr Bol Bikh Khaavaniaa ||6||

आपि डुबे सगले कुल डोबे कूड़ु बोलि बिखु खावणिआ ॥६॥

They drown themselves, and drown their entire family; speaking lies, they eat poison. ||6||

21 ਮਾਝ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪ ਪੰ. ੧

Raag Maajh Guru Amar Das Page:124 Line: 1

These examples show that one's karma can have positive as well as negative effect on his family & ancestry.

[sikhiseeker]

There are many verses in Gurbani that talk about Kul (ancestry).

Positive example -

ਸਾਹਿਬ ਭਾਵੈ ਸੇਵਕੁ ਸੇਵਾ ਕਰੈ ॥

Saahib Bhaavai Saevak Saevaa Karai ||

साहिब भावै सेवकु सेवा करै ॥

When it pleases our Lord and Master, His servant serves Him.

2 ਬਸੰਤੁ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੧੭੦ ਪੰ. ੧੩

Raag Basant Guru Amar Das Page:1170 Line: 13

ਜੀਵਤੁ ਮਰੈ ਸਭਿ ਕੁਲ ਉਧਰੈ ॥੧॥

Jeevath Marai Sabh Kul Oudhharai ||1||

जीवतु मरै सभि कुल उधरै ॥१॥

He remains dead while yet alive, and redeems all his ancestors. ||1||

3 ਬਸੰਤੁ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੧੭੦ ਪੰ. ੧੩

Raag Basant Guru Amar Das Page:1170 Line: 13

Negative example -

ਇਕਿ ਕੂੜਿ ਲਾਗੇ ਕੂੜੇ ਫਲ ਪਾਏ ॥

Eik Koorr Laagae Koorrae Fal Paaeae ||

इकि कूड़ि लागे कूड़े फल पाए ॥

Some are stuck in falsehood, and false are the rewards they receive.

19 ਮਾਝ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪ ਪੰ. ੧

Raag Maajh Guru Amar Das Page:124 Line: 1

ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ਬਿਰਥਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਗਵਾਏ ॥

Dhoojai Bhaae Birathhaa Janam Gavaaeae ||

दूजै भाइ बिरथा जनमु गवाए ॥

In love with duality, they waste away their lives in vain.

20 ਮਾਝ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪ ਪੰ. ੧

Raag Maajh Guru Amar Das Page:124 Line: 1

ਆਪਿ ਡੁਬੇ ਸਗਲੇ ਕੁਲ ਡੋਬੇ ਕੂੜੁ ਬੋਲਿ ਬਿਖੁ ਖਾਵਣਿਆ ॥੬॥

Aap Ddubae Sagalae Kul Ddobae Koorr Bol Bikh Khaavaniaa ||6||

आपि डुबे सगले कुल डोबे कूड़ु बोलि बिखु खावणिआ ॥६॥

They drown themselves, and drown their entire family; speaking lies, they eat poison. ||6||

21 ਮਾਝ (ਮ: ੩) ਗੁਰੂ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਸਾਹਿਬ : ਅੰਗ ੧੨੪ ਪੰ. ੧

Raag Maajh Guru Amar Das Page:124 Line: 1

These examples show that one's karma can have positive as well as negative effect on his family & ancestry.

WJKK, WJKF

Dear brother, thanks for posting these shabad from our guru. However again, within the lines of the original topic, "do children take the karma of parents" the shabad you have provided are really not on that topic,

He remains dead while yet alive, and redeems all his ancestors. ||1||

This shabad is talking about someone who lives by gurmat, by redeeming his ancestors it does not mean a gurmukh carries their karma...basically all their kul da karma.

"They drown themselves, and drown their entire family; speaking lies, they eat poison. ||6||"

This shabad is talking about someone who lives their life by Man Matt and the affect their actions in life will inevitably influence their entire family. This is not due to karma, this is due to ones poor decisions and influences made to family while living, like drinking alcohol, smoking tobacco, cheating, encouraging caste etc.....

All the other quotes I feel are not related to the topic in discussion.

For me and what I understand in my opinion is I can only be accountable for my actions. Why should I be accountable for my Biological father/mother or even the entire kul? We all take our janam due to our previous karmic action. This is our individual chance after millions of janam. If one achieves the state of brahm gian and receives ridhi/sidhi, I believe then one may have the ability to help ancestors but that is another topic in itself.

WJKK WJKF

[chatanga]

singh bj

we are talking about 2 different points here.

please please answer these questions.

where do you get your gurbani gian from?

why did you post the english translations of the shabads above?

[sikhiseeker]

singh bj

we are talking about 2 different points here.

please please answer these questions.

where do you get your gurbani gian from?

why did you post the english translations of the shabads above?

Yea I agree, kinda off topic, we're not singin from the same hymn sheet.

[chatanga]

im going to answer his question, but i would like to know this information from him first if poss.

[luckysingh99]

Problem with any discussion of karma is that sadly it ends up mixed with reincarnation and vice versa.

The posts seem to be veering off on tangents again, and it is important to address the issue as practically and simply as possible, without using and intertwining other concepts.

I had stated the below in an earlier post-

KARMA is from your lekha, which in turns molds and shapes your destiny.

However, this destiny is ONLY applicable if you maintain at the SAME current state of consciousness.

If you develop and evolve your soul/consciousness towards the higher states, then you, yourself change your own destiny !

For eg.. Kauda raksh, if he carried on and refused to realise God or refused to let his soul evolve higher, then his actions and past karmic imprints would have led him to the appropriate lower destination of destiny. HOWEVER, he made the effort to listen, learn and realise, that made him ask for forgiveness

Thus, he was freed from all his destined bounds and shackles, and became ONE with supreme God conscious.

In short, your own destiny will hold strong according to your karmic actions/imprints/influences at any given state of TIME !

But , you can move out of this destined graph line, if you LEARN to evolve.

This is the REAL Learning of what SIKH actually means !!

If you are not sure what I mean by the last bold-ed part, then please say so and i will try elaborate further.

To ADD-

Now, the karmic weights gained by parents going on to children has to be looked at in context in certain scenarios.

These scenarios are ones where the HUKAM prevails as always and the play of karma and lekha unfolds below it, in this world.

The point we are missing is that actions and reactions are exactly what they are, and have to viewed in totality.

But don't forget, that it is ALL still under his hukam how he wants it played...ie. the effects may occur in this lifetime or maybe not !

Let me try explain with some practical examples-

1) Let's say Mr A kills and murders Mr B's son. As a result of this, Mr B goes through immense and traumatic suffering for many many years. In the process, his health may decline, he suffers severe mental health issues etc...etc.. or in other words- Extreme emotional/physical suffering due to loss of one and only son

However, Mr A, the murderer, never had any family anyway and just does his 15 yrs in a cell and then comes out all fit and healthy with maybe, a little remorse.

Now, even we all know that his 15 yrs is not equivalent to the suffering of Mr B. ....AND God, even knows exactly what the internal emotional pains and sufferings he went through.

SO what may happen ???

(Remember, this is just an example to help understand the extents of how karmic effects can be playing.)

Well there are many possibilities, but Mr A-the murderer of someone's son, will have to have rebirth to experience the love of a son. Then secondly, he shall also be made to suffer at the expense of losing the same son and experiencing exactly what Mr B went through.

The problem is that the son of Mr A had nothing to do with it. BUT the same son is losing his life with some painful death because of his father's karmic weight.

It's a little complicated now ?

Yes, but this same innocent son, that has taken birth to help balance the family's karma, will also have had his own karma from some past.

You see the domino knock on affect ?

The whole play is under his HUKAM, which like I said earlier is the bigger umbrella that overlooks all the other pieces and players of the game.

We can never predict how his balance of karma works, but the hukam will always oversee it.

2) Another way of looking at it is a slightly positive light !

For the same example above, lets say MR A did have a son. Then in return, his son too got murdered in some gang warfare. In this case, MR A will have been spared in a way, because he will have paid his karmic debt in this life already and gone through the suffering of losing a son.

Then, in a twist, it may have completely turned him around and made him realise his wrong doings and embrace religion/God. Depending on the rest of his further bhagti and remorse to the divine, he may have actually got liberated or mukti from the cycle of birth and death.

So, Mr A, even though he committed paap, then paid for them, then embraced the Lord to the max, will eventually be MERGED with the JYOT of Waheguru !!!

At the end of day, we can see that God will keep giving us chances to BALANCE or karma, according to his HUKAM. His Hukam could mean suffering in this life, or suffering in the next life, or suffering, realizing, learning and finally merging into jyot of sachey patshaah.

Just thinking about the whole drama unfolding around us makes us realize what a minuscule, yet necessary part we are to the whole of mankind.

[sikhiseeker]

Dear "luckysingh99"

We're lucky to have a sikh like you lucky Singh, totally agree with you. The fabrication of waheguru and the intertwining souls are very complicated.

WJKK WJKF

[chatanga]

singh bj singh Ji?